No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2011, 8:09 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gizmo1137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 635
No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

I am trying to determine if my battery is at fault for a no start. After fully charged on my Battery Tender Plus (solid green light showing) it reads 12.8 on my multimeter. When I crank it, voltage drops to 10.8. The specifics are 09 LT purchased new in 11/10, so I assume original battery. Up until yesterday it was starting and running fine and generally ride daily and always put it on the Battery Tender Plus at the conclusion of my day's ride. I have made sure the safety switch is on, tried starting with it on and off the center stand, lowered and then raised kick stand and insured I had clutch in.

Regards & Ride Safe!

Bruce
'09 Black LT
4-Wheels moves the body, 2-wheels moves the soul.
IBA # 8547

Last edited by Gizmo1137; Sep 14th, 2011 at 8:21 pm.
Gizmo1137 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2011, 8:22 pm
Senior Member
 
gunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kings Mountain, NC, USA
Posts: 3,089
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

To be sure I understand what you are saying.................

Fully charged battery is 12.8VDC. Good number.

Does it drop to 10.8 while cranking or are you measuring this after trying to start it.

Does the starter spin the engine over?

B D R
gunny is offline  
post #3 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2011, 8:22 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ormond, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 113
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

Can you give a little more detail in your no start....... Does starter not turn engine over?
Does it crank but too slow? How about a comparison to normal crank speed?
How much cranking time in secs does it take to show the 10.8V reading.

My quick answer to the detail you have given is that you need a battery as you have a weak sell causing battery to have no holding capacity.

First, check(Make sure they are tight) and clean positive and neg connections at battery, and at other end of same if you can access them

1999 K1200LT 33K miles
1999 Concours 107K Km

Doesn't matter what you ride, but ride it, don't spend all your time polishing!
LittleJoe is offline  
 
post #4 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2011, 8:53 pm
Senior Member
 
JPSpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jones, OK, USA
Posts: 3,525
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

If it's not turning over, It's likely due to the battery voltage going too low under load...Safety circuit is kicking in...Does the headlight go out while you're pressing the start button ?

If it's turning over and just not starting... You have some other ignition related issue.... No spark or no fuel pressure because the fuel pump isn't running.. Do you hear the fuel pump run when you switch the key on ? It should run for a few seconds then shut off when the pressure comes up...

I believe all the interlocks. ( Side stand switch, Kill switch, Clutch switch, Reverser switch).. Would keep it from cranking at all....If I'm not mistaken...

I know the side stand switch on the CLC will allow it to crank but not start...I don't think the LT is that way however....

Others in the know will chime in soon... I'm thinking battery.. Maybe try to jump start it off the car battery...
Things to check : Kill switch.. It wouldn't be the first time.. Reverser switch... Or that one either..

Good Luck

John

Live and direct from the new earthquake capitol of the U.S. Jones, Oklahoma
08 Can-Am Spyder (Miss Lindy's)
03 R1200CLC Capri Blue "Flipper"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01 R1100RT Glacier Blue "Lucky"
91 R100GS "It'sNotAMoneyPit"
The voices in my head may not be real, But they have some good ideas!


"I like the wind in my face and Boobies on my back. No, Wait, I got that backwards"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JPSpen is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2011, 9:14 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gizmo1137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 635
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

Thanks for the replies. I am measuring 12.8 volts DC and the voltage drops as soon as I start cranking. It does crank but sounds/seems like, but not for sure, that it is slower than usual. When I crank it over the headlight goes out and the dash lights dim ever so slightly. I am pretty certain I hear the fuel pump engaging. The other thing I noticed after posting this issue and after the battery was on charge for quite a while and maintaining the green light, is after trying to start several more times than before it sounded a little weaker than the first 1 or 2 attempts. Hope this helps and thanks for the help.

Regards & Ride Safe!

Bruce
'09 Black LT
4-Wheels moves the body, 2-wheels moves the soul.
IBA # 8547
Gizmo1137 is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2011, 9:24 pm
Senior Member
 
DanDiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 4,829
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

It sounds like the battery. In Florida they don't seem to last more than 3-4 years at best and I've had a few fail sooner. You have similar heat.

You need to either plug in a new batter to test or get you battery checked under a load.

Most of the auto parts places around here can check the battery under a load, even if they don't sell a motorcycle battery.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
DanDiver is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2011, 9:37 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gizmo1137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 635
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

Thanks everyone and Dan you make a good point about the heat. I know in Phoenix batteries take a beating and is not uncommon to have them only last 1-2 years, at least for the wet batteries. I am going to pull the battery and stop by my local Batteries Plus on my way home from work and pick one up.

Regards & Ride Safe!

Bruce
'09 Black LT
4-Wheels moves the body, 2-wheels moves the soul.
IBA # 8547
Gizmo1137 is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2011, 9:54 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
deanwoolsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Topeka, KS, USA
Posts: 3,105
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

And now for the easiest way ever to check your battery. Try jump starting it from your car. If it works then you need a new battery.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
deanwoolsey is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old Sep 15th, 2011, 7:44 am
Senior Member
 
DanDiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 4,829
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

It seems that over the past 15 -20 years or so, that batteries don't gradually fail like they used to and simply die and won't take a charge. I can remember carrying jumper cables and it wasn't a big deal to get a jump and continue on. The failures were not catastrophic.

Now, there seems to be no indication that the batter is going to fail and they simply die. Maybe a closer watch with a volt meter would help.

My wifes car battery died the other night and it would not even take a jump. I had to buy a battery at the local auto parts place and do a replacement.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
DanDiver is offline  
post #10 of 21 Old Sep 15th, 2011, 7:57 am
Senior Member
 
JimH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: west coast of , MI,
Posts: 256
Garage
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo1137
I am measuring 12.8 volts DC and the voltage drops as soon as I start cranking.
Some voltage drop during cranking is normal, and expected. There are, of course, limits...

Quote:
It does crank but sounds/seems like, but not for sure, that it is slower than usual.
With a 'weaker' battery, it will crank slower and you will be able to hear the difference.

Quote:
When I crank it over the headlight goes out and the dash lights dim ever so slightly. I am pretty certain I hear the fuel pump engaging.
The headlight (and other electrics I don't know offhand) are switched off by a Load Shed relay. This diverts amperes not used in starting the engine, making more amperes available to turn the engine over, pump fuel and provide spark. Once the engine starts, the alternator can take over and the headlight can be switched back on. To paraphrase Star Trek, "Engineering, divert all power to the starting circuits."

Quote:
The other thing I noticed after posting this issue and after the battery was on charge for quite a while and maintaining the green light, is after trying to start several more times than before it sounded a little weaker than the first 1 or 2 attempts.
The green light measures voltage, and voltage only. This is similar to measuring water level in a pond, which tells you how high the water is but does not tell you how deep the sand and sediment is that has accumulated on the bottom and reduced the pond's volume. Your battery is similar to that pond, and over time it will 'silt up' and lose capacity while appearing at the same level on the shoreline, and high temperature will accelerate the 'silt' build up in a battery. Also, like a pond, when amperes (water) are drained out of a battery the voltage (water level) will go down, and with a lower voltage (water level) the starter will turn slower.

You may be able to take it to a shop that has a tester that can measure its behavior under load (drawing heavy amperes) to see if it still has enough capacity, or if it has 'silted up' and needs to be replaced.
JimH is offline  
post #11 of 21 Old Sep 15th, 2011, 8:42 am
Senior Member
 
JPSpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jones, OK, USA
Posts: 3,525
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

If it's turning over, Then the battery is probably not the main issue... Might start by checking all the fuses...

Be sure that fuel pump runs when you switch on the key...There is a fuse for that...
Take off the fuel cap and listen... Also a blown hose on the fuel filter will cause the fuel to just go back into the tank and never get out to the engine...That happens more often than you'd think...But you can hear it with the lid off the tank...Shine a flashlight down in there.. If when the fuel pump is running, You see the fuel spraying around in there then it very well could be the hose connecting the fuel pump to the filter...

Next thing to check for is spark .....

John

Live and direct from the new earthquake capitol of the U.S. Jones, Oklahoma
08 Can-Am Spyder (Miss Lindy's)
03 R1200CLC Capri Blue "Flipper"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01 R1100RT Glacier Blue "Lucky"
91 R100GS "It'sNotAMoneyPit"
The voices in my head may not be real, But they have some good ideas!


"I like the wind in my face and Boobies on my back. No, Wait, I got that backwards"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JPSpen is offline  
post #12 of 21 Old Sep 15th, 2011, 9:52 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gizmo1137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 635
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested / UPDATE

Well when I got home from work today, I tried Dean Woosley suggestion and tried jump starting with my Jeep (Dean you inspired me to dig out some motorcycle specific jump cables I had buried away). Still would not start, cranked but no start. So I pulled the battery and went to my local Batteries Plus and they did a load test, the battery tested just fine. In fact he said it is very good. I checked all the fuses and they were fine except one 4-Amp assigned to the BMW GPS/Accessory, don't think that would cause the problem and I was unable to buy a new one anyway. I tried lowering, then raising the side stand to no avail as well as taking it off the center stand, putting it in gear with clutch in, shifting back to neutral also nothing. Finally I put it in reverse and then back in forward. At this point I should re--wind to Tuesday, the last day I rode it. I brought it to a local BMW only independent mechanic shop, to have them route my Zumo 665 cable bundle and my V-1 Power supply. I did not consider or mention this at first, because after they were done, they test rode it without a problem, shut the bike off upon return to the shop while I settled the bill. Then I started it up with no problem and rode the long way home about 50 miles with no issues at all. So after exhausting all tests I am capable to do, I called the mechanic. Everything he asked, I had tried so he said he will pick it up tomorrow morning and check it out.

Regards & Ride Safe!

Bruce
'09 Black LT
4-Wheels moves the body, 2-wheels moves the soul.
IBA # 8547
Gizmo1137 is offline  
post #13 of 21 Old Sep 16th, 2011, 9:26 am
Senior Member
 
JPSpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jones, OK, USA
Posts: 3,525
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

So, Just before this started occuring.. You had the bike in for service and the tupperware was taken off...

Sorry you have to go back to the dealer...

You should try to participate in the fix if they'll let you so YOU know what the problem was...
That's the only way you'll know if they accidentally messed up something..

Every time my bike has quit after I've worked on it, It was because I didn't do something or did something not quite right...

One time the bike just quit... Crank but no start...I was on the side of the road for two hours...

I had just previously had the tank off... One of the quick disconnects didn't get secured and it separated just enough to shut off the fuel...

This may be your problem. Make sure the fuel tank QD's are fully seated and locked..

I looked right at it a half dozen times before the light came on... OH CRAP !!
Seated the QD and she fired right up..

John

Live and direct from the new earthquake capitol of the U.S. Jones, Oklahoma
08 Can-Am Spyder (Miss Lindy's)
03 R1200CLC Capri Blue "Flipper"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01 R1100RT Glacier Blue "Lucky"
91 R100GS "It'sNotAMoneyPit"
The voices in my head may not be real, But they have some good ideas!


"I like the wind in my face and Boobies on my back. No, Wait, I got that backwards"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JPSpen is offline  
post #14 of 21 Old Sep 16th, 2011, 10:30 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gizmo1137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 635
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
So, Just before this started occuring.. You had the bike in for service and the tupperware was taken off...

Sorry you have to go back to the dealer...

You should try to participate in the fix if they'll let you so YOU know what the problem was...
That's the only way you'll know if they accidentally messed up something..

Every time my bike has quit after I've worked on it, It was because I didn't do something or did something not quite right...

One time the bike just quit... Crank but no start...I was on the side of the road for two hours...

I had just previously had the tank off... One of the quick disconnects didn't get secured and it separated just enough to shut off the fuel...

This may be your problem. Make sure the fuel tank QD's are fully seated and locked..

I looked right at it a half dozen times before the light came on... OH CRAP !!
Seated the QD and she fired right up..

John
Wish I could watch, but I have a busy schedule at work. But I trust these guy's and am sure I will get an honest answer to the problem. It could very well be one of the disconnects as when the mechanic took the tank off he pointed out there was one plastic and one metal and asked if I wanted a metal in place of the plastic crap, which I had done. Hope it is something simple like that.

Regards & Ride Safe!

Bruce
'09 Black LT
4-Wheels moves the body, 2-wheels moves the soul.
IBA # 8547
Gizmo1137 is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old Sep 18th, 2011, 4:00 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gizmo1137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 635
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help RequestedUPDATE 2

Since so many were kind enough to respond with suggestions and help, I thought it helpful and appropriate to reply with an update. The shop where I had the wiring project done was kind enough to pick up my LT and check it out. All the connections they handled were sound and there were no errant maladies as a result of the work. They went on to troubleshoot the problem and isolated the problem to the injectors not firing. So my LT was picked up the closest dealer where they were to order the part (I suspect the computer that tells the injectors to fire) and will install it.

Regards & Ride Safe!

Bruce
'09 Black LT
4-Wheels moves the body, 2-wheels moves the soul.
IBA # 8547
Gizmo1137 is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old Sep 24th, 2011, 10:16 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gizmo1137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 635
Re:No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested/Conclusion (I hope)

Well I received a call from the service manager yesterday (earlier than the expected arrival of the part), to say my LT is up and running again. Apparently the tech had another go with troubelshooting and realized a signal from the computer to the injectors. So he hooked up the fancy BMW injector air pressure pump doohicky and forced fuel through and it sputtered to life. He then added injector cleaner and one by one each injector came to life. I picked it up last night and so far so good. Not sure why they did not do the additional troubelshooting prior to ordering the parts, but another story I guess. It seemed odd to me all four injectors would seize and the service manager expressed dismay as well. It is also curious to me that they would get junked up so soon as it is less than a year old with 5400 miles on the clock. In the time I have owned it, I have run premium QT, Chevron and on few occassions Shell gas, and have periodically run Startron to combat the effects of ethanol. The service manager said they have experienced issues with Shell gas and recommended not using it, but I have used Shell the least and have not for at least 3 tank fulls prior to failure. Anyway it is running nicely now.

Regards & Ride Safe!

Bruce
'09 Black LT
4-Wheels moves the body, 2-wheels moves the soul.
IBA # 8547

Last edited by Gizmo1137; Sep 24th, 2011 at 10:16 am. Reason: Spelling
Gizmo1137 is offline  
post #17 of 21 Old Sep 24th, 2011, 4:47 pm
Senior Member
 
Foiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: phoenix, az, usa
Posts: 593
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

Glad to hear you are back up and riding Bruce
Foiler is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old Sep 24th, 2011, 5:16 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gizmo1137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 635
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiler
Glad to hear you are back up and riding Bruce
Thanks me too.

Regards & Ride Safe!

Bruce
'09 Black LT
4-Wheels moves the body, 2-wheels moves the soul.
IBA # 8547
Gizmo1137 is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old Sep 24th, 2011, 10:04 pm
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,131
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested/Conclusion (I hope)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo1137
. The service manager said they have experienced issues with Shell gas and recommended not using it, but I have used Shell the least and have not for at least 3 tank fulls prior to failure. Anyway it is running nicely now.
My grandfather quit using Shell gas in 1963 when it caused the coil to go out in his 63 Chevy wagon.

But I have been running Shell almost exclusively on my 05 LT for the last 70,000 miles with no issues. Glad you got her running again. Better try and figure out what you have been pouring into that tank besides gas that has clogged up your injectors.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old Sep 25th, 2011, 12:08 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Gizmo1137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 635
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested/Conclusion (I hope)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
My grandfather quit using Shell gas in 1963 when it caused the coil to go out in his 63 Chevy wagon.

But I have been running Shell almost exclusively on my 05 LT for the last 70,000 miles with no issues. Glad you got her running again. Better try and figure out what you have been pouring into that tank besides gas that has clogged up your injectors.
Only stuff I have poured into my tank is Startron (highly recommended by 2- very good BMW dealers and one highly respected independent BMW MC mechanic) and Techron at 3000K. Although I purchased the LT new in 11/10, it was on the floor for several months and wonder if the fuel sitting in the tank, fuel line etc. was at fault.

Regards & Ride Safe!

Bruce
'09 Black LT
4-Wheels moves the body, 2-wheels moves the soul.
IBA # 8547
Gizmo1137 is offline  
post #21 of 21 Old Sep 25th, 2011, 1:05 pm
Senior Member
 
JPSpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jones, OK, USA
Posts: 3,525
Re: No Start Troubelshooting Help Requested

Very unusual for all the injectors to foul at the same time...That's why you have a fuel filter..Maybe a big gulp of water... She won't run on water...

Glad you got it worked out however...

Story seems a little hinky to me. But I suppose it's possible..

Get out and ride that sucker...

And stay away from that last gas station you stopped at before she quit..

I also would think if something that bad went thru the system you might want to think about changing the fuel filter..

John

Live and direct from the new earthquake capitol of the U.S. Jones, Oklahoma
08 Can-Am Spyder (Miss Lindy's)
03 R1200CLC Capri Blue "Flipper"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01 R1100RT Glacier Blue "Lucky"
91 R100GS "It'sNotAMoneyPit"
The voices in my head may not be real, But they have some good ideas!


"I like the wind in my face and Boobies on my back. No, Wait, I got that backwards"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JPSpen is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rough Start (video)!! I need HELP...please!! BlauBeeMr K1200LT 46 Feb 9th, 2011 11:37 am
Another LT That Won't Start. Vegas9mm K1200LT 9 Jul 12th, 2010 1:26 pm
Ignition or fuel problem, No start ridinredfox K1200LT 26 Jan 14th, 2010 8:15 am
2003 LT a No Start Problem knlkern K1200LT 11 Aug 26th, 2008 9:00 pm
Triple BBG-Ride Report murray Ride Tales 8 Nov 20th, 2005 6:34 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome