07 FD failure - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 24 Old Sep 12th, 2011, 10:52 am Thread Starter
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07 FD failure

I have an 07 with 29K on the odometer. First that I noticed any slippage was during a pass that I down shifted from 5th to 4th and rolled on throttle and it very slowly engaged. Get it home and noticed a leak aft of the motor. I have not torn into it yet but am suspecting that I am now a member of the 4% club. I can not afford for BMW to do the work. I am open to suggestions as how to get this done, I am a good assistant mechanic but am not sure about doing it by myself after seeing the pictures of other bike all the way down to bare bones. I do know I want to ship off the FD and have it rebuilt by the gentleman up in the northeast (CT I think). I found a new clutch but they will not be in production until Dec so sounds like a good winter project. If anyone in the Baton Rouge area has the know how and is willing to help me through this I can provide food and beer.
Thanks in advance.

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post #2 of 24 Old Sep 12th, 2011, 11:10 am
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Re: 07 FD failure

sounds like you got clutch failure not FD failure???

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post #3 of 24 Old Sep 12th, 2011, 12:48 pm
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Question Re: 07 FD failure

+1 here as well. What causes you to think you have FD problems? It sounds like Clutch slippage, which could be the Slave cylinder or Rear Main Seal leaking if not plain wear.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
sounds like you got clutch failure not FD failure???

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post #4 of 24 Old Sep 12th, 2011, 3:40 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafirecapt
I have an 07 with 29K on the odometer. First that I noticed any slippage was during a pass that I down shifted from 5th to 4th and rolled on throttle and it very slowly engaged. Get it home and noticed a leak aft of the motor. I have not torn into it yet but am suspecting that I am now a member of the 4% club. I can not afford for BMW to do the work. I am open to suggestions as how to get this done, I am a good assistant mechanic but am not sure about doing it by myself after seeing the pictures of other bike all the way down to bare bones. I do know I want to ship off the FD and have it rebuilt by the gentleman up in the northeast (CT I think). I found a new clutch but they will not be in production until Dec so sounds like a good winter project. If anyone in the Baton Rouge area has the know how and is willing to help me through this I can provide food and beer.
Thanks in advance.
If I understand you correctly, you have a clutch failure.

And you are thinking of having your final drive preemptively rebuild during your clutch job?

The 4% figure that gets bantered around refers to FD failure rate, not clutch failure rate.

A 2007 with only 25K miles on it is probably at low risk for a FD failure; you probably don't need to touch the FD other than to remove it for the clutch job. However, if you think you want a preemptive rebuild during the winter, I'm happy to do it. I plan on putting an ad in the classified section for a flat rate preemptive rebuilds over this winter for anyone who might be interested. Send me a private msg on this board if you are interested in that.

I'm not the guy for help with the clutch. I've never done one on the KLT but there are lots of posts on this site by folks who are very knowledgeable about the clutch remove and replace so you'll find lots of info and help if you plan on a DIY clutch job.

Sorry to hear of your troubles....
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post #5 of 24 Old Sep 18th, 2011, 4:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: 07 FD failure

Thanks to all for your responses sorry it has taken me so long to get back. I am just a bit discouraged after just having dropped $1K on it about 2 months ago and now looking at least at a clutch which I understand is expensive and slave cylinder. I did find an after market clutch but will not be manufactured till sometime in Dec. I will attempt to find the link if anyone else is interested. I am hoping not to have to the the FD if I dont have to, but if its not that expensive may as well while I have it off.

1982 Suzuki SP500 (traded)
1980 Yamaha Seca 750 (sold)
1998 Honda Shadow 750 (traded)
2000 Yamaha Roadstar Silverado (sold)
2007 BMW K1200LT (son will inherit)
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post #6 of 24 Old Sep 18th, 2011, 10:29 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

Please keep in mind that this is anecdotal, but given that its an 07 and this is the fourth one that I have heard about this season, including mine, I am pretty sure its the clutch and I beginning to think that the 2007 LTs had a bad run of clutch parts.

I will add that after I paid to have it replaced, the bit shifted easier than when it was new.

The dealer tech did politely tell me how it must be my fault for excessive wear on the clutch by blasting off from stops. Really, on an LT? You might have more luck with your dealer than I did with mine. And trust me, I do not race Harleys or other 2 cylinder bikes, or anything else off the line. I rarely end up in stop and go traffic. And I really think that there is an issue with 07 clutches going south in their late 20's

Bill

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post #7 of 24 Old Sep 19th, 2011, 4:39 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

If your clutch is slipping there are two possible causes:

1) slave cylinder leakage
2) main seal on the engine

In either case if you are at least handy with tools, can read instructions, have a mechanical aptitude along
with the time you can do this job.

I had a main seal leak early this summer - caught it very early. So early in fact that I had no clutch slippage. I did buy a
new clutch plate from BMW at Countryside in Chicago at 12% off list price about $150. When I pulled the old clutch
out is was still good but I replaced it any way - now I have a backup as there was almost no oil on the clutch plate itself.

I replaced my main seal on the transmission and would be more than glad to lend you a few of the specialized tools
you only need to pick up the freight!! The tools I have are the large socket with a cut out and the large allen wrench and then
I made a bracket to stop the clutch from rotating while you torque up the clutch bolts.

After market clutch ??? Not sure I would go there or how much money you would save. I was fortunate that I cleaned
up the rest of the clutch parts and did not need to replace any other parts.

Dan Finazzo
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post #8 of 24 Old Sep 19th, 2011, 4:45 pm Thread Starter
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Re: 07 FD failure

thanks for the offer, I just may take you up on that, I am going to buy my lift in a few weeks and get her up and stripped down. I need to buy my Clymer and do more reading. I am hoping to have this done in about 6 weeks as the weather is getting to be perfect for riding (cooling off from the 100's). Will let you know when I am ready. Thank you again.

1982 Suzuki SP500 (traded)
1980 Yamaha Seca 750 (sold)
1998 Honda Shadow 750 (traded)
2000 Yamaha Roadstar Silverado (sold)
2007 BMW K1200LT (son will inherit)
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post #9 of 24 Old Sep 19th, 2011, 5:39 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

I did not have a bike lift - as a matter of fact I was in the process of recovering from a herniated disk lifting
a refrigerator. That did not stop me - so I went about buidling a stabilizing pallet on the floor and rolled around
on the floor for a week - taking my time and along with the second steroid shot I think the floor offered some physical
therapy!!

I have posted the pictures here http://www.use.com/791f98b97461e518173d and note even if you get
a bike lift you will need an overhead lift or something similar to hold up the back end of the bike and a way to
raise and lower the front and rear of the engine both if you go after the clutch maintenance / replacement.
Lastly the only part I destroyed in the process was the reverse switch that is mounted on the transmission.
You need to know how the switch operates so when you remove it you do not destroy it like I did.







Here is a link to the one document I used to perform all the work

http://www.bmwlt.com/files/displayim...album=15&pos=6

Good luck . . . in your endeavor!!

Dan Finazzo
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Last edited by dfinazzo; Sep 19th, 2011 at 9:51 pm.
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post #10 of 24 Old Sep 19th, 2011, 10:09 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

Don't remove the switch - just leave it on the shaft and disconnect it from the main harness. That way you can't hurt it.

John
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2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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post #11 of 24 Old Dec 10th, 2011, 11:11 am
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Re: 05 Clutch failure

I am so happy to be a member of this group. Mine just happened yesterday in the middle of nowhere. I embarked on a 200 miles trip on my 05 LT with 25,000 on the odometer. Going was a blast. Coming back into the first 50 miles going at a bout 70 miles on the 5th gear..cruising, I noticed my bike started slowing down while my tach was going crazy. I immediately too it out of the cruise and down-shifted. To my scared life, the only movement I noticed was my tachometer going in the redline. I pulled over, I was able to get into all gears but no movement. To worsen my already predicament, I had to get towed out of the middle of nowhere. Going at about 40 miles with a rope tied to the forks of my bike and the towing truck, I rode on my brakes to keep tension on the rope. My rear disc brake got so hot, the robber shaft boot on the rear wheel caught fire from the heat. Luckily, we were able to put it out before much damage was done. But the rubber will have to be replaced.
Now I have a bike that starts and everything functions but no movement. I had to come online to research my problem. I am trying to figure out what may actually be the problem. Please help!!!!! Is this clutch slippage, dead clutch or something else? There is no oil leak anywhere. I just got the Bike with about 25K miles on it. It is in pristine condition and till now, the ride is the best I ever had. I comes with Wilbur shocks already installed. This is my second LT by the way. PLEASE I your brains out there guys.
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post #12 of 24 Old Dec 10th, 2011, 1:48 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

If it went that fast with those low miles it could be the drive shaft. It is a two part front piece held together with a rubber cushion. Some times these just let go. This in NOT a FD failure as they don't slip. It still could be the clutch but I have not seen one go that fast. A quick removal of the rear drive will confirm.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #13 of 24 Old Dec 10th, 2011, 3:15 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

+1
Agree with John. Having a clutch give up that fast sounds impossible.

Sounds like your slave cylinder still works. I mean you get the bike on gear but then nothing else happens. So there should be no leakage from the slave cylinder into the clutch.

Now if your main seal would have given up and your clutch plates became "oil clutch" instead of the original dry clutch the bike would still try to move somewhat.

What happens when you have the bike on the centerstand and you put it on gear? Does the rear wheel turn at all?
I would try to locate the drive shaft failure at first with a help of a stethoscope rod. Just put the bike on gear on centerstand and if the rear wheel turns slightly keep it from turning and put the rod at first on the gearbox housing. If you can hear the gears turning then you know your clutch is fully engaged. Then listen to the front part of the drive shaft tunnel. And then try at the rear part. Is there a difference? If yes, then your drive shaft has gone as John suggested.

Changing the driveshaft is small job compared to ta full clutch overhaul...

Good luck with your search!

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

Hyvinkää, Finland
2004 ('05) LT, Dark Graphite, "Sunset Cruiser II"

Bike trip from Finland to USA:

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post #14 of 24 Old Dec 10th, 2011, 4:20 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

My buddy lost the clutch on his '05 with only 11k miles. The dealer told him that it was his fault.....of course. $5 seal goes out and he end up paying $2000 for a clutch. love these dealers!

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post #15 of 24 Old Dec 10th, 2011, 11:59 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

Strange thing happens when I put the bike on center stand... I couldn't get it to go into first gear, but it goes into the rest of the gears. But nothing happens to the rear wheel. However, if I rev it high enough, the wheel moves a little. In any of these gear, it behaves as though bike is in neutral.

Also, I love to be educated on how to know for sure if my clutch is out. If I have the bike on center stand engaged in gear, shouldn't the tire be locked up if the clutch is good?

Last edited by omoige; Dec 11th, 2011 at 4:24 am.
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post #16 of 24 Old Dec 11th, 2011, 6:51 am
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Re: 07 FD failure

Also, I love to be educated on how to know for sure if my clutch is out. If I have the bike on center stand engaged in gear, shouldn't the tire be locked up if the clutch is good?[/QUOTE]

. As fast as your symtoms started, I think the driveshaft separated is more likely than a clutch failure.

Even if the clutch was bad, it would hold enough to put some resistance to turning the wheel.

Ron
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post #17 of 24 Old Dec 11th, 2011, 7:35 am
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Re: 07 FD failure

Thanks for your reassuring post "BEETS". I am somewhat relieved knowing that the trouble is not as much as I was anticipating. I am going to get help getting the shaft out this week for inspection.I'll give you guys my feedback. Meanwhile, I am still reading more opinions here.
If it is the shaft, would I have to change the entire shaft, rebuild or will that affect the FD as well? Is this common with BMW's? I have 3 of them 02 R1100RT, 02 R1200C Phoenix and this Hulk KLT. I have had clutch problem with my RT before, but I was still able to ride that bike for almost 6 months. I was just not able to get up to speed with out revving the tachometer so high (especially in the 3rd 4th and 5th gears) until I had the funds to have dealer replace the clutch.
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post #18 of 24 Old Dec 11th, 2011, 9:05 am
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Re: 07 FD failure

You might want to fill out your profile with your location at least. There may be a member close by that could give you an assist in diagnosing he problem. But it does sound more like a drive shaft separation.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #19 of 24 Old Dec 11th, 2011, 2:31 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by omoige
Thanks for your reassuring post "BEETS". I am somewhat relieved knowing that the trouble is not as much as I was anticipating. I am going to get help getting the shaft out this week for inspection.I'll give you guys my feedback. Meanwhile, I am still reading more opinions here.
If it is the shaft, would I have to change the entire shaft, rebuild or will that affect the FD as well? Is this common with BMW's? I have 3 of them 02 R1100RT, 02 R1200C Phoenix and this Hulk KLT. I have had clutch problem with my RT before, but I was still able to ride that bike for almost 6 months. I was just not able to get up to speed with out revving the tachometer so high (especially in the 3rd 4th and 5th gears) until I had the funds to have dealer replace the clutch.
If it is the shaft only, your FD should be OK as this type of failure does not really give any extra stress to it.
As John descibed earlier the shaft is made of two separate pieces with some vulcanized rubber in between acting as shock abrober. If the rubber has separated I don't think it will be an easy fix to rebuild. Plus you would always ride with a cold ring under your butt wondering when will it give up again.
This not a very common problem as far I have followed the various websites. Nothing to compare with the FD or clutch worries...

As Ron explained it would be a good idea to test the bike by simply putting it into first or second gear (engine shut off) and the trying to rotate the rear wheel. As far as I would imagine, the gearbox plus the clutch (even if bad) would prevent the wheel from rotating. If the drive shaft is bad, you would be able to turn the wheel regardless of the gear the bike is in.

Regards

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

Hyvinkää, Finland
2004 ('05) LT, Dark Graphite, "Sunset Cruiser II"

Bike trip from Finland to USA:

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post #20 of 24 Old Dec 11th, 2011, 2:38 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by pozo_izquierdo
IAs Ron explained it would be a good idea to test the bike by simply putting it into first or second gear (engine shut off) and the trying to rotate the rear wheel. As far as I would imagine, the gearbox plus the clutch (even if bad) would prevent the wheel from rotating. If the drive shaft is bad, you would be able to turn the wheel regardless of the gear the bike is in.
And easiest in 5th gear & hardest in 1st gear
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post #21 of 24 Old Dec 11th, 2011, 2:41 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
You might want to fill out your profile with your location at least. There may be a member close by that could give you an assist in diagnosing he problem. But it does sound more like a drive shaft separation.
Sorry about my location. It is complicated. I live in the CA , USA, but the Bike is in Nigeria, West Africa. I only use it when I come here either on vacation or job related. It gets me around the country quicker than using a car. I just got here last week. This happened in the middle of nowhere, two days ago.
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post #22 of 24 Old Dec 11th, 2011, 3:28 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by pozo_izquierdo
As Ron explained it would be a good idea to test the bike by simply putting it into first or second gear (engine shut off) and the trying to rotate the rear wheel. As far as I would imagine, the gearbox plus the clutch (even if bad) would prevent the wheel from rotating. If the drive shaft is bad, you would be able to turn the wheel regardless of the gear the bike is in.

Regards
I tried this out. On the center stand, in any gear, the tire rotates freely, excepting the friction created by the brake pads, it sounds normal. There is no abnormal sound coming from the rotation.
If my problem turns out to be the drive shaft, will it suffice to just a buy a used drive shaft from Ebay? There is a few of them going for under $70. New one runs around $700. Is it safe to get the cheaper one since this is not a usual occurrence?
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post #23 of 24 Old Dec 11th, 2011, 9:14 pm
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Re: 07 FD failure

OK, you are our only member in Nigeria. Best to go ahead and pull the FD off and have a look. It only takes about 20 minutes to do. You do need a 12 mm allen and a 30 mm socket to loosen the pivot pins then pull the drive back. You will know right away if the drive shaft is the problem.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #24 of 24 Old Dec 14th, 2011, 10:31 am
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Re: 07 FD failure

My clutch problem may end up a unique case to b e studied. We opened up the trannie. It smells like a whole city just got burnt down. Inside, the fiber or whatever it is had been shewed to shreds.
Now what beats me is how did it happen and what did I do differently? Inside the housing is bone dry. Of course, I just acquired the bike about 500 miles ago with a little over 25 thousand miles on the odometer. I even send it to the an authorized repair shop in Los Angeles be fore I shipped it here in August. I did not get any sign of the clutch on the way out.
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