Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 20 Old Aug 20th, 2011, 8:38 pm Thread Starter
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Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Started to prep my 2002 LT and Unigo for the the trip to CCR in Boise as we are planing ot leave on Thursday - drained the
read end and there was a large amount of sluge on the drain plug magnet and for the first time ever I picked up "small shiny
metal particles in the oil with a magnet.

So if anyone knows of a 2002 rear end available please call me ASAP.

Bike shops are closed on Monday and living in Cincinnati - Columbus, Indianapolis and Louisville are all over a 100 miles
away. I have been maintaining the bike for 8 years and do not believe I can pull off this type of repair on such a short notice.

Guess I pull the rear end and start the process!!

Bummer . . .

Dan Finazzo
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post #2 of 20 Old Aug 20th, 2011, 10:33 pm
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

dan,
I just did mine and it is not as bad as it seems.
It is a mind trick called intimidation and fear.

Follow the steps, do one thing at a time, look at Curtises video

Oven /freezer
A minimum of 200F-Maximun, 250 degrees F
and a min of 15 min in the freezer

At 200 degrees you can easily pick the parts up with bare hands.
at 250 you might want a glove.

When replacing Fd onto bike, put bike in gear, this will help line up the splines.

Eric von Laue

3Cyl Kawa ( a long time ago)
450 Yamaha Seca ( maybe it was a Maxim )
1100 Honda Magna
650 Honda XR ( to Guatemala and back)
1990 Honda PC800 ( Mountain Mama )
2000 BMW 1200LT ( Maxamillion )

Keep the rubber side down
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post #3 of 20 Old Aug 20th, 2011, 11:44 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Eric,

I am half way thru Charlie's video so for so good . . .

I replaced the rear seal on my engine earlier this summer and this is starting to look like a lot less work . . .

I do believe I have caught my bearing going bad very early

Now I just need to get the parts intime for a launch on Thursday!!

Thanks for the encouragement !!

Dan Finazzo
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post #4 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 12:46 am
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

I found mine going bad early too. Happened to look inside (just for giggles) and found the retainer broken in 4 places.
About half way through the measuring process I found that I was "horsing" the bearing too hard. I just needed to relax and let it raise easily. After I settled down, it was very easy to do. I guess I was thinking it would take more pressure that it really did. Took longer to get the shims than to do the whole rebuild.
Good luck!!!
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post #5 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 4:05 am
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Dan - PM sent.
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post #6 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 2:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

UPDATE:

Left the housing on the bike but popped the crown bearing and drive out.

Talked to CharlieVT (Curtis) got a few pointers like the one above . . .

Have the bearing in my hand took no more than 75 minutes from the time I started
and I was taking my time since this was the first time. Also cooked the bearing
and crown gear in the oven @ 200 degrees. Put a 3 prong bearing remover on it and
it just came off with very little effort.

The bearing runs smooth but has a few rough spots. After closer examination without
taking the bearing apart I looked inside at the ID and OD races and saw some pitting.
In order to take the bearing apart would be a great effort as no other part of the bearing
shows any wear!!

So I will either order thru MAXBMW or have my wife drive to one of the 3 dealers - all
about 100 miles from Cincinnati. Thus I should have this back together Tuesday evening
as most BMW dealers are closed on Mondays.

Last point: after seeing Charlie's movie, chatting with others who have PM'd me and
catching the bearing early all I can say for me this is a fairly simple mechanical job.
Those who are frustrated and willing to jump off bridges must have had the failures at a
time where they were inconvenienced - this I truly understand. On the other hand if not
caught early this would start to become a larger and more costly event!!!

I think a rear drive rebuild as a tech session @ CCR would be a great idea. You don't
even need to ask for volunteers - all you need to do is show up at CCR - someone is
bound to have one on their bike!!!

Dan Finazzo
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post #7 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 2:54 pm
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Good going there!

How many miles on the bad rear-end? Is it the original?
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post #8 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 4:39 pm
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Glad you are getting through this so well Dan. I have to admit it is far better to carry a spare bearing than an entire drive. Caught early and done on the bike with assistance from any machine shop is the answer. Even re-using the existing shim will give you enough distance capability to continue just about any trip. Good luck and we will see what happens at CCR as there is almost always a drive to deal with. I'll make sure Carl at Big Twin has a few bearings in stock!! As always I'll have one of my spares at the ready.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #9 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 7:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

I am the original owner of this LT which has 60K miles and this bike has never been to a dealer since the 600 mile check back in 2003.

Here is a picture of the housing still in the bike - real clean!



Here is a closeup of the housing showing the drain plug and fill plug! Still a little debris on the magnet


Dan Finazzo
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post #10 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 8:03 pm
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Dan ,
you will need to take the housing off the bike to measure for your shims, also the seal can be pushed in with your thumbs, no special tool needed.
Tap it flush with a piece of plywood or block of wood.

Eric von Laue

3Cyl Kawa ( a long time ago)
450 Yamaha Seca ( maybe it was a Maxim )
1100 Honda Magna
650 Honda XR ( to Guatemala and back)
1990 Honda PC800 ( Mountain Mama )
2000 BMW 1200LT ( Maxamillion )

Keep the rubber side down
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post #11 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 8:43 pm
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

He can probably get by with the original shims as he did get 60K out of it. Sure it would be best to measure and be sure. No reason he couldn't use the Dman method on the bike.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #12 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 8:53 pm
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

only if you believe all bearings are exactly the same........

Eric von Laue

3Cyl Kawa ( a long time ago)
450 Yamaha Seca ( maybe it was a Maxim )
1100 Honda Magna
650 Honda XR ( to Guatemala and back)
1990 Honda PC800 ( Mountain Mama )
2000 BMW 1200LT ( Maxamillion )

Keep the rubber side down
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post #13 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 8:57 pm
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

The last four I measured were just that (from the last two drive I have rebuilt). Besides the shimming is more for the other tolerances (ring gear assembly length and shim for back lash and the taper bearing) more so than for the big bearing tolerance that it destroys if it is the wrong size.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #14 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 9:08 pm
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Dan, it sounds like you have things under control, but a couple of logistical-only thoughts for you:

1. I work 10 minutes from Motohio (Columbus). I would be happy to pick up anything for you there, and meet you halfway between Cincinnati and Columbus with said part(s).
2. Don't forget Holt BMW (Athens, OH). I live 50 minutes from them. Same offer applies.
3. and don't forget Mathias BMW (New Philadelphia, OH). They are 2.5 hours the wrong direction (NE Ohio) but again, if you need something picked up there to save a few hours...

I'll PM my cell and office #s.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #15 of 20 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 10:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

John and Eric,

I might be able to use the Dman method for shimming while the housing is vertical - don't know until I try.
CharlieVT sent me a note stating that almost all pre-emptive re-builds are have preloads that are .015 mm
too much. In fact CharlieVT even guessed at the correct number and size of my shims - .050 mm and
.015 mm. He recommended based upon his 30 or so rebuilds to not put in the .015 mm shim and just bolt
it back up. BTW .015 mm is real thin!!

I caught this so early that the seal is in perfect condition as I inspected it with a jewelers loop.
Besides the metal in the magnet I only found no more than 10 to 15 flecks of metal in the drive housings.

Howard,

Thank you very much for your offer and I may take you up on it depending who has a bearing / seal in stock
- crossing my fingers. If one of the Ohio dealers has it and I can get it tomorrow that would give me a little
more time than calling on dealers.

Here is a picture (a little fuzzy) of the pitting on the OD race of the bearing - this is the biggest pit I could find!!


Dan Finazzo
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post #16 of 20 Old Aug 22nd, 2011, 9:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Update:

Bob's BMW is open on Mondays, ordered the bearing and seal and it should arrive tomorrow and should have in by evening.

Not decided if I am going to pull the .015 mm shim and just put the drive together or take the drive housing off the bike and measure
it up to determine the exact fit . . . !!!

Will see how it goes.

Dan Finazzo
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Last edited by dfinazzo; Aug 22nd, 2011 at 9:51 pm.
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post #17 of 20 Old Aug 23rd, 2011, 9:07 am
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Charlie is right.. Take out the thinnest of the shims... You'll be fine...All the failed drives as far as I know have been too tight... .015mm is not enough to make you "loose" ..

John

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post #18 of 20 Old Aug 26th, 2011, 6:34 pm
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Clarification, I don't want to get miss-quoted too far off.
My suggestion to just remove the 0.15mm shim was to perform a "quick fix" rebuild to get the bike back on the road in time for a scheduled departure. Since I learned that the bike had gone about 60K miles on the first bearing, and all the evidence pointed to a "classic" crownwheel bearing failure, I figured the bike would go another 60K on a new bearing even without changing the preload. And since the final drives that I have rebuilt for failed crownwheel bearings were over shimming in an amount ranging from 0.1 to 0.3 mm, I just did a SWAG and suggested that if there was a 0.15mm shim that it would make sense to remove it.
Again, this recommendation was made on the premise that this was a "quickie" rebuild. I would not recommend just "guessing" at shim thickness on a routine basis.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dfinazzo
John and Eric,

I might be able to use the Dman method for shimming while the housing is vertical - don't know until I try.
CharlieVT sent me a note stating that almost all pre-emptive re-builds are have preloads that are .015 mm
too much. In fact CharlieVT even guessed at the correct number and size of my shims - .050 mm and
.015 mm. He recommended based upon his 30 or so rebuilds to not put in the .015 mm shim and just bolt
it back up. BTW .015 mm is real thin!!

I caught this so early that the seal is in perfect condition as I inspected it with a jewelers loop.
Besides the metal in the magnet I only found no more than 10 to 15 flecks of metal in the drive housings.

Howard,

Thank you very much for your offer and I may take you up on it depending who has a bearing / seal in stock
- crossing my fingers. If one of the Ohio dealers has it and I can get it tomorrow that would give me a little
more time than calling on dealers.

Here is a picture (a little fuzzy) of the pitting on the OD race of the bearing - this is the biggest pit I could find!!

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post #19 of 20 Old Aug 27th, 2011, 7:55 pm
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

FYI,
Mine went at about 60,000 miles or
98227 KM

Eric von Laue

3Cyl Kawa ( a long time ago)
450 Yamaha Seca ( maybe it was a Maxim )
1100 Honda Magna
650 Honda XR ( to Guatemala and back)
1990 Honda PC800 ( Mountain Mama )
2000 BMW 1200LT ( Maxamillion )

Keep the rubber side down
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post #20 of 20 Old Aug 27th, 2011, 11:39 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear End Bearing going going . . . HELP!

Well I tried to measure the bearing clearance while the housing was still on the bike could not get it to budge - in or out!! So I took out the .015 mm (.006") shim and put the drive back together with just the .050 mm (.020") shim. I am in Keystone, SD and haveput 1,100 miles on the rear drive - no issues. I run about 75 mph pulling a Unigo trailer. I have drained the oil once with no issues and will do so in Boise, ID.

If all goes well I will finish the trip on Sept 5th with over 5,000 miles. I then plan to pull the drive off the bike - get it horizontal, pull the shim, inspect the bearing, fit it up without shims and measure for proper clearances. Once complete I will place with the correct shims for the recommended BMW preload of .005 to .010 mm.

I plan to show others at Boise the bearing as I have found one bad ball, one major pit on the OD and several minor pits on the ID and OD. It may be that this is not a pre- load failure ???

Dan Finazzo
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