I give up! Another cruise control not working - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 19 Old Aug 4th, 2011, 4:30 pm Thread Starter
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I give up! Another cruise control not working

I've read thru many threads about the CC not working, but can't seem to find an answer on how ton adjust the throttle cable for the fuel rail? Course, part of the problem might be that I cannot find the fuel rail/throttle bodies?

When running the diagnostic I get failures from 5 to 8.

I can see and hear the micro switches for the clutch and front brake work and click. I believe the rear brake is also clicking.

During a recent repair the shop replaced two fuel injectors and some plastic fitting on the fuel line?

I've got the clutch/shifter side panel off--hoping I do not have to remove the fuel tank to get at this adjustment!

Best from Gorham Maine
Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
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post #2 of 19 Old Aug 4th, 2011, 6:38 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

I found the fuel rail and the two cables.

But, I'm stumped on which way to try and turn the cable, into or out of the hand throttle?

The bottom cable seems to be loose compared to the top.

I can see and hear both the clutch switches. Nada from where the throttle cables are attached to the fuel rail.

Is there any way to check any of the switchs with a multi-tester?

I've discovered that one of the throttle cables has double nuts and the other one (pull?) only a single nut. The cable with the double nut was not tighented to the hand throttle body, just against each other.

Thanks for any help, suggestions.

Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
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post #3 of 19 Old Aug 4th, 2011, 6:58 pm
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

reply to BECKETMA:
I think the video is a very good start, but you may be having problem to figure this out because of (either):

1) the video was shot on a K1200RS, so the throttle cables arrangement and adjustment (at the handlebar level) is different than your K1200LT,

2) all USA models have a Pulse-Valve hiding the view of the micro-switch on the throttle-bodies. As shown in the video, you need to temporarily remove this to see better the micro-switch action. If everything is adjusted correctly, you should hear the "clicking" very well if the fairings are removed (when throttle grip is full-forward).

3) maybe you do not have a Shop-manual (Clymer or BMW) to follow the correct sequence to adjust both cables. For liability reasons and also to keep the video fairly specific, I do not fully show how to adjust the throttle-cables free play. This is critical, and if not done properly, you may have a bike that the RPM does not go to idle correctly. You need to be the judge if you are comfortable to adjust this - otherwise please check with your dealer.

P.S.: I live too far to help and coach you directly, but I sincerely hope that you find someone on this forum who lives nearby to give you a hand.

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
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post #4 of 19 Old Aug 4th, 2011, 8:13 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

Video?

My Climer's is back in Tucson, AZ; Right now I am in Maine, headed to Western MA, Becket MA actually. Around a 5 hour ride from here. Interstate all the way--booooring.

Best from Gorham ME
Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
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post #5 of 19 Old Aug 4th, 2011, 8:25 pm
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

You can do the adjustment at the handle bars the top cable is the closer cable and you want that one loose. Of course the closer cable at the handle bar is the one closest to you.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #6 of 19 Old Aug 5th, 2011, 8:22 am Thread Starter
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

Many thanks for all of the help.

I ran a few searches and found the video.

I'll be back at it this morning; decided to try and get the CC working before heading out for a long boring 5 hr ride. Course, I don't seem to remember being able to use it much on the interstate.

best from Gorham
Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
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post #7 of 19 Old Aug 5th, 2011, 8:57 am
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

it seems to be that your push cable is mis adjusted.
when they replaced your injectors (why only 2?) the cables had to be dislodged from the fan shroud. maybe they didnt go back is the same way or maybe they were wrong and then changed but the point is it matters.
the green cable, pull, goes to the out side. white in. in this way they make the smoothest arc to the t.b. and will work consistently.
i have had to adjust several of the shut down micro switches (what the prong on the push cable hits) away from the prong to keep it from constantly holding the switch on. the prong can warp, it is plastic 3" from an engine.
poorly routed cables will also contribute to the micro switch being forced in.

if all else is correct, the adjustment at the handlebar is easy.
best to remove the switch cover in order to watch what happens to the push cable during adjustment and lower cover so the opposite doesn't happen. too much slack and the cable will kink when you accelerate and the other will kink when you shutdown.
start by screwing in both the adjusters and giving them both ample free play. in this state the cruse should work so long as the micro switch is not engaged (needs alignment) or the cables are mis-routed. don't twist the throttle yet.
you should be able to pull the cables out of the ferrules just a bit. now take all but a few mm of the free play out on both cables. carefully twist the throttle open and closed to be sure the cables are not kinking.
adjusting 1 affects the other in operation. turn the bars L and R and put your ear to the shutdown switch to be sure you can consistently hear the switch engage and release. the free play should remain with bars turned. tighten the lock nuts.
test the cruse again on the road.
would be worth having me look at it if its still not working when you come back to arizona.
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post #8 of 19 Old Aug 5th, 2011, 11:29 am Thread Starter
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

Which way do I turn the closet cable to "loosen" it up?

I've tried both in and out of the twist grip.

At one point I could hear the switch if I pushed the cable hard towards engine.

Best from Gorham
Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
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post #9 of 19 Old Aug 6th, 2011, 7:33 am Thread Starter
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

Many thanks T25.

I didn't see your post until today.

So far, there hasn't been any "slack" in either cable.

I'll give it another try when I get back from having a new front tire mounted.

I discovered yesterday that the cable with two nuts on it is adjusted by holding the cable and then turning the nuts next to the throttle.

Once I get to Becket MA, I'll buy some cheap tools so that I can get the tank off.

Best from Gorham Maine
Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
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post #10 of 19 Old Aug 6th, 2011, 8:42 am
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

you don't need to take the tank off. adjusting the micro switch should be the last thing you do. and even then, only the upper left panel needs to come off.
the cable with 2 nuts is the 'push' cable. the cable is tricky to understand how it works because a flimsy wound wire can't actually 'push' anything. its actually a pull-cable like everything else just opposing the throttle cable. its the sheath that does the pushing. that's how the computer knows you want to disengage the cruse control in one of 5 ways. there's a big spring and a clip that force the switch end of the push cable away from the t.b.. when you close the throttle (now you're in mirror image throttle mode), you force the slack out of the cable and the switch closes, disengage the cruse.
so clearly, if there is not enough free play in the push cable, the cruse computer thinks you're trying to shut down because your forcing the sheath into the switch.
so FIRST, if you don't screw IN BOTH the cable ferrules to remove ALL tension, its not right and won't work properly. the accelerate cable and shut down cable must be done together. that is to say if you adjust one, you have to adjust the other and then the first one again if need be.
occasionally, the push cable stretches too much and the micro switch needs to be moved away from the sheath. very difficult to do if you're not knowledgeable with this region of the bike because you can't see what you're doing.
but like everything else, you'll need a T25!
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post #11 of 19 Old Aug 7th, 2011, 2:38 pm
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

I just fixed this same issue yesterday with the help of many of these threads. Thought I should share what I found. First, my clutch switch was mis-adjusted. I got that fixed, but the problem didn't go away. The push cable was still causing a problem. What I found is that the last time someone (and I don't know if it was me or the mechanic that replaced my cables) worked in this area, the tie on the pulse valve mentioned earlier, was not replaced. This allowed the pulse valve to float around and know the throttle cable to get pushed out of alignment with the throttle bodies and the switch. I DID have to remove the tank to find this (another big tupperware party). Once I got this valve secured, I think my problems are over with this cruise issue. Good luck!

2001 Pacific Blue K1200LT
1994 Yamaha Virago 750
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post #12 of 19 Old Aug 8th, 2011, 6:49 pm
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

If all else fails unplug the connector to the switch. You still have the clutch and both brakes to disengage the CC. I spent several hours trying to get mine readjusted after replacing the throttle cables and this was the only consistent fix I could find.

Roy

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post #13 of 19 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 8:10 am
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

John,
Your video is great. My cruise control ('05 LT, 148K) is erratic including moments when it accelerates with no input from me. In the last instance, I had to fight the throttle to hold the speed down. Coming to a stop, pulling in the clutch lever, and down shifting, the engine went to redline. Turning off the switch, using the clutch, braking. . .nothing turned it off except turning off the bike. Once restarted, the cc did not function at all, then it did, then the acceleration issue resurfaced. Diagnostics indicated all functions were operational. All of this started during/after two days of operation in a hard rain. Is moisture related to this somehow? A tech friend suggested that the acceleration issue was related to the cruise control unit and that needed to be replaced. I don't see mention of that in the threads I've read. Any experience with that?

Wayne 'Doc' Edkin, Blossvale, NY
CCR Director, (Chairman: 2014, 2015, 2017)
'16 R1200RLC, '09R1200GSw/'16 CSM Sidecar, '05 K1200LTw/'09 Hannigan Sidecar, '74 R60/6 { '99 K1200LT (traded @ 62K}.

2000 First LT Gathering at The Gondola. CCRs: 2003 Gatlinburg, 2004 Breckenridge, 2005 Jackson Hole, 2006 Braselton, 2007 Osage Beach, 2008 Midway, 2010 Killington, 2011 Boise, 2012 Duluth, 2013 Bend, 2014 Chattanooga, and finally 2015 Coeur d'Alene.



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post #14 of 19 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 10:22 am
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

reply to DOCEDKIN:

I think we all need to keep the following points (see below) in mind about the cruise-control troubleshooting. This info was hard to fit into my Video tutorial, some of wich would need a lot of explanations and pictures (point 7 below).

1) BMW has not offered much help to do any form of diagnostic - not even in their service manual.

2) A long time ago, the diagnostic mode procedure was known only by dealers mechanic. Eventually one or a few owners saw their mechanic doing it. Later, many internet forums started talking about it.

3) There is no electric or electronic specifications for the main Cruise-unit available anywhere. Only the manufacturer (sub-contractor) building this unit would have such info. Only info available from BMW is the general electrical-diagram - this includes the inputs and outputs from the cruise-unit (9 pins out of 10 are used on the large connector).

4) After having read everything I could find about the cruise, including common problems encountered on the K1200Rs and K1200LT forums (for the last 9 years), I would say the cruise-unit is rarely at fault, but too much water ingested at the main connector or at the handlebar switches may cause unpredictable behavior.

5) In terms of probability, it would be impossible to have all switches (brakes, clutch, throttle) responsible to trigger the cruise OFF defective at the same time .

6) Based on the behavior you have described, I would be tempted to try a used one from EBAY. A used unit is fairly cheap because they do not break often (not much demand) and are generally un-damaged during an accident.

7) Another aspect that you should look into is the mechanical side of the cruise-control. Because of the 2 cables, 2 pulley and the 4 clamps holding the air-box and throttle-bodies, there is room for mechanical interference that may cause the throttle to stick and stay open. This would be something that cannot be shut down with the cruise-control electronics or any switches. I have worked often in that section of the machine (for cables or rubber manifolds replacement) and I can say that it is easy to have something not put back correctly.

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
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post #15 of 19 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 11:39 am
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

John,
With the cruise control fuse pulled, there is no recurrence of throttle sticking or accelerating without input. Does that point to electronic input from the unit as opposed to mechanical or cable issues?

Wayne 'Doc' Edkin, Blossvale, NY
CCR Director, (Chairman: 2014, 2015, 2017)
'16 R1200RLC, '09R1200GSw/'16 CSM Sidecar, '05 K1200LTw/'09 Hannigan Sidecar, '74 R60/6 { '99 K1200LT (traded @ 62K}.

2000 First LT Gathering at The Gondola. CCRs: 2003 Gatlinburg, 2004 Breckenridge, 2005 Jackson Hole, 2006 Braselton, 2007 Osage Beach, 2008 Midway, 2010 Killington, 2011 Boise, 2012 Duluth, 2013 Bend, 2014 Chattanooga, and finally 2015 Coeur d'Alene.



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post #16 of 19 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 3:54 pm
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

reply to DOCEDKIN:

This is the reason why I have put item 6 (try another cruise) before item 7 (check for mechanical issues), as it would appear in your case that the unit is at fault.

BUT, logically, you need to eliminate the cheapest stuff first (cheapest in time or money). After buying a used cruise-control unit, you will have something of little value if the problem is not solved - those units do not break often.

Be carefull if you choose to buy a used one as the BMW parts catalog gives a different part number for each generation of K1200LT (1999-2004 or 2005-2009), although they look very similar. Ideally, you would find a friend with a similar vintage as yours and just swap the cruise unit. Remove fairings, 3 or 4 bolts for the cruise-unit, 1 cable to throttle-bodies and 1 large connector.

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
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post #17 of 19 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 6:32 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

After many, many, many hours of removing "stuff", I discovered that I had to to replace C-clamps on the throttle bodies to remove the air box so that I could adjust the micro switch. At that point I was just plain feed-up trying to get the CC working.

I looked more carefully at the now exposed micro switch and noticed that a wiring harness passing over the cable was pulling the cable down. This cable happened to almost ontop of some of the white Tee connectors the dealer replaced.
I took a few more things out of the way and was able to disconnect the wiring harness from what it plugged into, re route and put back what I had to remove to re-route the wiring harness.

Suddenly the CC worked!!!

So much for the head of the repair shop at my local dealer telling me that they did not do any work near the CC cable; that I couldn't get the CC working because I didn't remember how to work it!!

On my 4.5 hour road trip from western MA to Gorham ME, I set the CC with a self satisfying smile that I had gotten it working and could enjoy using it as I cruised down an interstate late at night with little traffic.

My joy quickly dissapeared when the CC shut it self off!! I'm guessing that the adjustments I tried on the two cables are the cause for it not staying ON.

Best from Gorham ME
Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
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post #18 of 19 Old Aug 21st, 2011, 7:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

Forgot the pixs
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post #19 of 19 Old Aug 22nd, 2011, 6:04 am
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Re: I give up! Another cruise control not working

To help others who may have a similar problem in the future, I took the liberty to edit one of the 3 picture posted by BECKETMA in the previous response.

1) The YELLOW arrow points to the black plastic tab that need to freely move back-and-forth (toward inside of frame) about 0.25 inch. Nothing should restrict that movement.

2) The RED arrow points to the "return" cable (sometimes called the "push" cable) leading to that same black plastic tab. Nothing should interfere with the cable or force it to make a bend.

3) The GREEN arrow points to a small wiring harness that is restricting some movement before it was moved to a more appropriate location (going under the cable instead).

I am pretty sure by now that all those who have worked on this can now understand why I could not cover all possibility in the video tutorial. I was trying to hep by covering the most common stuff (80% - 20% rule).
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-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
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