No response at clutch lever! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 2:39 pm Thread Starter
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Unhappy No response at clutch lever!

Started the bike up this morning, pulled in the clutch to put it into gear. Nothing there! felt like a wet lettice. Bearly went back to normal position!

Opened up the resovoir, normal level of fluid, pulled on the clutch - nothing, not even a movement in the fluid.
Obviously I can't get the bike into gear.

Checked out the service manual, no section on clutch lever dismantling.

Bit stumped

Anyone got a clue what the problem may be (my guissis a broken pin or gasket)

Anyone know of the best way to go about fixing?

Thanks all

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post #2 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 2:55 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
Started the bike up this morning, pulled in the clutch to put it into gear. Nothing there! felt like a wet lettice. Bearly went back to normal position!

Opened up the resovoir, normal level of fluid, pulled on the clutch - nothing, not even a movement in the fluid.
Obviously I can't get the bike into gear.

Checked out the service manual, no section on clutch lever dismantling.

Bit stumped

Anyone got a clue what the problem may be (my guissis a broken pin or gasket)

Anyone know of the best way to go about fixing?



Thanks all
Don't try to run the bike, and DO NOT keep activating the clutch lever!

If your slave cylinder has failed, you will only force brake fluid into the clutch, and then that will have to be replaced.

Pretty sure you have a failed slave cylinder. WAY too common a problem with LTs. My last one failed almost the same way, was miles from home, all of a sudden no clutch. I had to pump the clutch a couple times to get it to disengage enough to shift. Had I been smarter, I would have just gotten the bike to the side of the road and had it towed. Instead of just replacing the slave, I ended up replacing the clutch. Slave cylinder replacement is about 2 hours, clutch more like 2 days!

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #3 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 2:55 pm
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Not Good.

Is there any fluid leakage underneath the bike.? Maybe you could open the bleeder line and see if you can pump any fluid thru with the clutch lever.

Now that I think of it if the clutch lever is not returning it could very well be the master cylinder.....Especially if you're pumping the handle and the fluid is not getting lower...

If the slave cylinder has failed...Best thing is to get it apart and look see what's up..could be a broken push rod. But if it's a failed seal then every pump of the clutch lever could be sending dot4 straight to the clutch disk...

The sooner you get it diagnosed the more chance you'll save your clutch disk.

Good luck...

John

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post #4 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 3:00 pm Thread Starter
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As there is no movement in the fluid at all when I look with the cover off and pump, I can't see it being a lower problem. Mind you it may get me to fix the high rev slippage that I have had for the last 20+k.

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post #5 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 3:03 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpspen
Is there any fluid leakage underneath the bike.?

No leaks

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post #6 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 3:23 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
As there is no movement in the fluid at all when I look with the cover off and pump, I can't see it being a lower problem. Mind you it may get me to fix the high rev slippage that I have had for the last 20+k.
I think you have had a leaking slave for some time now, and it finally failed completely. Sounds like your clutch is already contaminated with brake fluid, so grab your wallet!

Are you going to do your own work, or take it to a dealer. Hope for your wallet's sake it is the former. Been there, done that.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #7 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 3:29 pm Thread Starter
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Even though the fluid hasn't gone down at all?
I don't mind too much as it will be a perfect bike after. I was quoted 500 by a local BMW dealer here to change the clutch.

"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" Mark Twain


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post #8 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 3:43 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
Even though the fluid hasn't gone down at all?
I don't mind too much as it will be a perfect bike after. I was quoted 500 by a local BMW dealer here to change the clutch.
You could have a failed master cylinder, which would cause the innaction you are experiencing, but I don't think we have had even one master cylinder problem in the 5 years I have been on the LT sites. Lots of failed slaves though.

The fact that you have had high RPM slippage points heavily to a fluid contaminated clutch, but could also be from a leaking transmission seal allowing tranny fluid into the clutch. I have had both, one tranny seal failure, and two slave cylinder failures. If the rear tranny input shaft seal failed, the oil can damage the piston seal on the slave cylinder. Either the front or rear tranny input shaft seals will contaminate the clutch.

My last slave cylinder failure was similar to yours, but even after enough fluid had been pumped out to contaminate the clutch, there was still considerable fluid in the clutch master, down about half way from full.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #9 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 3:55 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey

My last slave cylinder failure was similar to yours, but even after enough fluid had been pumped out to contaminate the clutch, there was still considerable fluid in the clutch master, down about half way from full.
Thanks,

The clutch master is full. It seems to me that it would have to go down a bit. But as you say high RPM slippage points heavily to a fluid contaminated clutch.

I would have liked to have been able to dismantle the master and leaver area before ordering a pick up though.

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post #10 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 4:35 pm
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Quote:
The clutch master is full. It seems to me that it would have to go down a bit. But as you say high RPM slippage points heavily to a fluid contaminated clutch.

I would have liked to have been able to dismantle the master and leaver area before ordering a pick up though.
The master cylinder is rebuildable, individual parts are available. I have a complete master cylinder assembly available if you find you need one. (just noticed you are in UK, not likely that would help).

Stands to reason, the one that has parts available NEVER fails. The slave on the other hand, which is NOT repairable, fails often.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #11 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 4:55 pm
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500 is a good price to swap out the clutch (unless it's labor only). They usually charge $1,400-$1,500 here in the States, all inclusive.

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post #12 of 20 Old Mar 9th, 2006, 5:12 pm Thread Starter
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Well I have always wondered what the LT would be like when giving it full throttle - mine has slipped at a power boost for 2 years!

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post #13 of 20 Old Mar 10th, 2006, 8:41 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
Well I have always wondered what the LT would be like when giving it full throttle - mine has slipped at a power boost for 2 years!
With minor clutch slippage one may have improved acceleration, That is until it progresses too much.
Also rear main seal Oring may contribute to clutch slippage ( oil slinger)

Petem aka murray
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post #14 of 20 Old Mar 21st, 2006, 8:29 am Thread Starter
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Update

Dealer now has the bike and initial thoughts are that it is the Clutch slave that has failed.
As they have to remove the swing arm and gear box I have said they may as well do the clutch and all related seals. (700+ is the current guess)
So I 'hope' I will have a few thousand miles trouble free when I get her back.
In the 3 years I have had her now I havn't had much luck, but when she works she is a dream to ride, hence I havn't scrapped her long ago.

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post #15 of 20 Old Mar 24th, 2006, 9:08 am Thread Starter
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OOOch!

Total cost for replacing the clutch assembly
(including the additional items -
The rear main engine seat trans input shaft seal
clutch hex nut
thrust ring
o ring
thrust washer
wire ring
diaphragm spring
thrust plate
clutch plate
retaining screws
drill drain hole)
& the slave cylinder

comes to 898.00 inc vat.

Lucky I was sitting down!

Anyone see anything in the list as not needed?

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post #16 of 20 Old Mar 24th, 2006, 12:07 pm
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Had something similar at CCR in Teton NP last year

It was about 32 deg F at Jackson Lake Lodge when I started up the bike after popping it into neutral to let it warm up a bit. I started off okay and then had no clutch release when I tried to shift. I rolled into the service arae set up by BMW of Salt Lake. their service managed explained that that symptom sometimes occurs when LTs are cold. Since it has not happened again and the clutch appears to work normally, I'm choosing to assume that he was right.

Paul Browne
Reston, VA

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post #17 of 20 Old Mar 24th, 2006, 1:35 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulcbrowne
It was about 32 deg F at Jackson Lake Lodge when I started up the bike after popping it into neutral to let it warm up a bit. I started off okay and then had no clutch release when I tried to shift. I rolled into the service arae set up by BMW of Salt Lake. their service managed explained that that symptom sometimes occurs when LTs are cold. Since it has not happened again and the clutch appears to work normally, I'm choosing to assume that he was right.
Don't think the problem you had and the one I have is similar - I hope not anyway for your wallets sake! When mine went - it stayed went.

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post #18 of 20 Old Mar 24th, 2006, 5:03 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
OOOch!

Total cost for replacing the clutch assembly
(including the additional items -
The rear main engine seat trans input shaft seal
clutch hex nut
thrust ring
o ring
thrust washer
wire ring
diaphragm spring
thrust plate
clutch plate
retaining screws
drill drain hole)
& the slave cylinder

comes to 898.00 inc vat.

Lucky I was sitting down!

Anyone see anything in the list as not needed?
Make sure they replace ALL the tranny shaft seals while it is out

There is no reason to replace the wire ring or diaphragm spring, and if not scored or heat checked/colored, the pressure plate and housing cover. I did not change any of those, just cleaned them up in a solvent tank and blew them dry to insure there was no fluid left on them.

Drilling that drain hole is important in my book, so if it happens again only the slave cylinder will have to be replaced.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #19 of 20 Old Mar 27th, 2006, 3:17 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Make sure they replace ALL the tranny shaft seals while it is out

There is no reason to replace the wire ring or diaphragm spring, and if not scored or heat checked/colored, the pressure plate and housing cover. I did not change any of those, just cleaned them up in a solvent tank and blew them dry to insure there was no fluid left on them.

Drilling that drain hole is important in my book, so if it happens again only the slave cylinder will have to be replaced.
Thanks - I will pass that on to them

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post #20 of 20 Old Apr 3rd, 2006, 2:12 pm
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No response at clutch lever

I had the same problem. Question, you did not say if you leveled the clutch master cylinder first. It makes a diff in the fluid level. It is a pain, but must be done. I my case the dealer mechanic forgot to pump up the clutch and top it off after changing the brake fluid. He won't admit it, I know. The symptoms were the same. No fluid on the ground. I topped it off, got enough to get clutch and back to the dealer to be checked and bleed of air. Hope yours is as easy as mine to fix. LUCK.
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