Help LT wont start - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 27 Old Apr 11th, 2011, 3:35 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Help LT wont start

Went out for a ride yesterday, got to around 30 miles, filled up with petrol, went onto a local pub, got back to the bike around an hour later and it wouldn't start, after a tow home I started on my tupperware party to try to work out whats gone wrong here's where I'm at:

1) cut off switch is fine as it cranks over with it on the "on" position and doesn't when its off

2) cant be side stand as it wouldn't crank over

3) I have a spark on the plugs but am a bit worried about fuel

4) Checked all the fuses for continuity

5) Checked for voltage on one of the injectors and it does go up to around .30v

6) fuel pump spins to begin with then stops, I assume this is normal?

The bike in the past has been hesitant to start when its hot, I normally have to blip the throttle to start it once its been running, I'm assuming that this could have been the begining of my problems.

I'm about to look at the crank pickups next, has anyone else come accross this?
JonnyQ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 Old Apr 11th, 2011, 3:49 pm
Senior Member
 
mneblett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Posts: 5,406
Re: Help LT wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyQ
6) fuel pump spins to begin with then stops, I assume this is normal?
Yes -- the pump runs long enough to pressurize the fuel rail, then shuts off.

Any chance the fuel filter has been replaced recently?

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
mneblett is offline  
post #3 of 27 Old Apr 11th, 2011, 3:51 pm
Senior Member
 
mneblett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Posts: 5,406
Re: Help LT wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyQ
3) I have a spark on the plugs but am a bit worried about fuel
What is the basis for this worry? Have you checked the spark plugs and found them dry?

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
mneblett is offline  
 
post #4 of 27 Old Apr 11th, 2011, 5:51 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

Plugs aren't wet, no real fuel smells when she cranks over for a while even with one of the plugs out, I've read some articles regarding possible fuel lines leaking inside the tank, its just really strange for the bike to simply not start as it must have started at least 5 times on the short run, i.e stopped to meet up with another biker, stopped for petrol etc.

I did fill the tank right to the top about 8 miles before it broke down it was pretty low i.e. 50 miles left on the Bavarian Computer with the reserve light just comming on.

It hasn't had a fuel filter changed recently, I suppose it could have picked something up with the fuel left low but I'd expect it to splutter a bit or at least give a sign.

I had an 84 k100RS with no probs and a K1200RS no probs so I know the basics of the K engine but my 01 1200LT is the first to let me down on a run, the old K100 did have an output shaft seal on the pickups which leaked so I thought I'd look there on the 12 to see if oil might have fouled the pickups, as the more modern K might use the same pickups for the fuelling timing as well as the sparking but that's only my guess I could be barking up the wrong tree.

As I have the tank off I'll investigate the pump and internal lines first and go from there, probably wont get round to it until after work tomorrow.

Wish me luck
JonnyQ is offline  
post #5 of 27 Old Apr 11th, 2011, 6:10 pm
Senior Member
 
mneblett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Posts: 5,406
Re: Help LT wont start

Your notes further suggest to me that the in-tank hose has slipped off the fuel filter.

My thought process:

The lack of fuel at the cylinders suggests (obviously) no fuel delivery from the fuel rail. Few things can cause that -- primarily no delivery from the tank, or no flow through the injectors.

No delivery from the tank: the combination of fuel pump clearly receiving power + running + sudden onset = hose likely off fuel filter, not an electrical issue. Highly unlikely to be a clogged pump inlet -- the inlet strainer is too big to suddenly clog.

No flow through the injectors (other than no flow from tank): dead Motronic computer -- extraordinarily rare, highly unlikely; failed fuel pressure regulator, no way (when they fail, pressure goes high, not to zero); injectors not receivng signals, possible, but not likely (don't have my schematic with me to see whether there is a single point of failure for all 4 injectors, and would expect to see an intermittant failure from a separating connection or wiring short/break, rather than sudden failure).

So, I believe your tank check is a good idea -- also one of the easiest things to check first.

Good luck.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
mneblett is offline  
post #6 of 27 Old Apr 11th, 2011, 6:24 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

'Tanks' for your tip mneblett at least taking the tank off will allow me to better route the sat-nav cables and change the airfilter, dont really want to take the plastics off too often!!

Typically the first sign of good weather in Wales (it normally just rains) the bike breaks down.....

I'll be draining my full tank tomorrow and having a peep, I think your right about the electrics as I did have a reading off a volt meater when I cranked it over from of of the injectors off the rail although it was very low at around .30v but I suppose all its doing is opening a jet.

I'll check in tomorrow with further findings.

Thanks again
JonnyQ is offline  
post #7 of 27 Old Apr 11th, 2011, 9:42 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Milford, NJ, USA
Posts: 978
Re: Help LT wont start

Jonny: +1 to Mark's advice.

Trying to measure voltage on injectors with a voltmeter will not work, the pulses are too brief for an indication on analog or digital meter.


All side-stand / clutch switch nonsense is eliminated when you try to crank in Neutral - you did already confirm this, anyway.

Slipped hose off the fuel filter is reasonably likely cause. Some riders reported seeing fuel whirling in the tank with such failure on bikes with a center filler. It may be hard to see it on an LT, but maybe with a mirror and a flash light (torch, that is), you may get a glimpse.

Good luck!

Robert in Northern NJ

'09 R12GS, '08 R12RT, '03 R1150RT, '01 F650GS - time to thin the herd?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
rdwalker is offline  
post #8 of 27 Old Apr 12th, 2011, 12:13 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

Stupid pipe was no where near the filter, I dont know who serviced it last............ it had full fluids and filter when I bought it around 8 months ago.

Nevermind I'll get myself a new filter I may as well change it now anyway.

Thanks for all your help guys, p.s. should I replace the hoses and clips as they have those clips which you cant tighten on the hoses?
JonnyQ is offline  
post #9 of 27 Old Apr 12th, 2011, 12:36 pm
Senior Member
 
mneblett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Posts: 5,406
Re: Help LT wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyQ
should I replace the hoses and clips as they have those clips which you cant tighten on the hoses?
How many miles on the bike? Unless a large number, should be no reason to change the hoses (unless you've seen visible signs of deterioration; cracks, etc.).

The hose clamps may be replaced with screw-type *IF* you use proper fuel injection line clamps -- ones with a smooth inner diameter surface -- the usual cheap clamps' thread slots can chew through the hose over time due to vibration from the pump.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
mneblett is offline  
post #10 of 27 Old Apr 12th, 2011, 1:11 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

Thanks for your tips, it just felt a little easy to go back on and pass the nobly bit on the pipe, the bike has only done around 29k so not really high mileage, however the top hose does have a very severe bend when you put it on, it looks original but it does look almost as if the pipe could get flat in the middle and reduce fuel flow as it is quite short.

I'll wait for my new fuel filter, I may as well change my throttle cable as well as they seem very tight on the twistgrip.

I was hoping to have done all of this work in the winter.... nevermind.

Thanks again
JonnyQ is offline  
post #11 of 27 Old Apr 12th, 2011, 6:28 pm
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,661
Re: Help LT wont start

The OEM hose is a pre formed hose so there is no "kink" in the middle of the bend.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 114 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #12 of 27 Old Apr 13th, 2011, 8:35 am
Senior Member
 
GlennM86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Posts: 605
Re: Help LT wont start

Since your are this deep already, how about a set of these?
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/c...ne_Disconnects

Glenn
Virginia Beach VA and Washington DC

2006 K1200LT "Phoenix Helena": Dark Graphite (#946)
2005 K1200LT "Dolly": Dark Graphite (#946) - Totaled July 2011
2002 K1200LT "Helga"-totaled Apr 2009
Iron Butt Membership # 45813


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

<By Motorcycle>


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

<By Car or Ship>
GlennM86 is offline  
post #13 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:04 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

Those fuel lines look good, trouble is I keep on opening other jobs on the bike, I've got the bike running now, and have also changed filters and plugs.

I now have three jobs which I fancy doing:

1) radiators have oxidised so I may take them off drain the fluid and give them a sand down and paint.

2) fork legs have bad paint, I fancy taking these off to give them a freshen up with some silver, I did read somewhere that they have oil which needs changing, is this true?

3) the dreaded brake fluid could do with changing and its probably a lot safer with the plastics off.

I'm not worried about the final drive or main oil as I did those about 6mths ago.

My little bit of garage tinkering time may well take up around a weeks worth of evenings at this rate!!

Anyone done a fork fluid change on one of these? and is it work it at 29k?

Thanks in advance
JonnyQ is offline  
post #14 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:12 pm
Senior Member
 
mneblett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Posts: 5,406
Re: Help LT wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyQ
2) fork legs have bad paint, I fancy taking these off to give them a freshen up with some silver, I did read somewhere that they have oil which needs changing, is this true?
No.

The oil in the forks only provides lubrication of the sliding surfaces between the tubes and the legs -- there is no damping whatsoever (imagine two big fat concentric tubes, with nothing insde them). There is basically nothing in the tubes which would degrade the oil.

The only reason I would change the oil is if there was a leaking fork seal to be replaced, and even then I would only replace the oil because I already had the fork apart and wanted to ensure the correct amount is put back in the tube.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
mneblett is offline  
post #15 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:22 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

Brilliant, thanks for that, I'll just drop them and freshen them up with paint.

Thanks for your tips.
JonnyQ is offline  
post #16 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:25 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

Hi Mark,

You wouldn't happen to know the bleed sequence to the brakes?
JonnyQ is offline  
post #17 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:29 pm
Senior Member
 
mneblett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Posts: 5,406
Re: Help LT wont start

What year LT?

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
mneblett is offline  
post #18 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:31 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

02 with abs and servo.
JonnyQ is offline  
post #19 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:32 pm
Senior Member
 
mneblett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Posts: 5,406
Re: Help LT wont start

Ok, see this Word doc: http://www.bmwlt.net/ubbthreads/show...&sb=5&o=0&vc=1

This has a fairly complete description of the 4 separate fluid circuits in the '02 Integral ABS system, followed by a how-to if you want to do the job your self.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

Last edited by mneblett; Apr 15th, 2011 at 3:40 pm.
mneblett is offline  
post #20 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:36 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

Excellent, I love this forum everyone is always so helpful.

This should keep me busy for a good few days.

Thanks again Mark
JonnyQ is offline  
post #21 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:40 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

Just one more thing.........

Whilst I'm at it the torx screws holding the calipers on are a bit rusty the same happened on my RS and I was thinking of changin them for stainless, someone told me not to as the torx are high tensile and a lot stronger than the stainless bolts and that the stainless could brake due to the abs etc.

Is there any truth in this?
JonnyQ is offline  
post #22 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:44 pm
Senior Member
 
mneblett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Posts: 5,406
Re: Help LT wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyQ
I was thinking of changin them for stainless, someone told me not to as the torx are high tensile and a lot stronger than the stainless bolts and that the stainless could brake due to the abs etc.

Is there any truth in this?
Yes. Don't go stainless here.

To get rid of the rust, either dip the heads in a rust neutralizing solution, or buy new ones from a dealer.

There are only a few bolts on the bike that are more crucial to your safety than these -- stay with the high strengh stockers

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
mneblett is offline  
post #23 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 3:46 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

They can spend a night in some tomato ketchup and coca cola in that case.

Brilliant advice thanks again!!!!!
JonnyQ is offline  
post #24 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 6:30 pm
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Charleston, TN, USA
Posts: 7
Re: Help LT wont start

Same thing happened to me last year, Sunday evening at TWO in Suches, Ga., 100 miles from home, and the campground was empty. Finally got me and the bike home (another story), and found out that my ignition switch was bad. Underneath all that tumpperware is a simple ignition switch wiring harness. Relatively cheap switch, and if you are "do it yourself-er" a good way to spend an afternoon exploring the inner workings of your LT.

Had a few hints that the switch was bad (bike quitting while stopped in a left turn lane on a eight lane highway) or quitting while going through a construction zone. I checked this forum for advice, and was greatly relieved to finally ascertain the problem and making the correction. Good luck, the LT is truly a great machine.

Benznbeemer
benznbeemer is offline  
post #25 of 27 Old Apr 15th, 2011, 11:58 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 1,206
Garage
Re: Help LT wont start

JQ we need to get you riding and save that work for winter like you said earlier. Whats the weather like this time of year? Unless it is necessary work I would get out and ride. I feel cheated out of 3-4 months every year and I'm not getting any younger
ride safe
billsmith is offline  
post #26 of 27 Old Apr 16th, 2011, 10:20 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wales, , UK
Posts: 13
Re: Help LT wont start

Thanks guys,

I think I will paint the forks anyway its a bit overcast at the moment and its only the front wheel and mudguard off to get to it (I'll probably paint it in situe as its a rough cast anyway), the two nuts on the top yolk were really rusty so I've cleaned them up and will put some grease in there in case I need to take them off later on in life, I also want to try some red brake calliper grease on the plastics/rubbers around the ignition where it makes contact with the big rubber seal to see if this eliminates the squeaky rubbing noise when I turn the handlebar....

I'll change the brake fluids as I'm at it and it can all go back together.

I might post some images later on to show my progress.

Regards

JQ
JonnyQ is offline  
post #27 of 27 Old Apr 17th, 2011, 2:29 pm
Member
 
Hairpin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Redmond, WA, USA
Posts: 53
Re: Help LT wont start

I changed my fork oil because the seals were leaking and needed replacing. If there is no sign of leakage, I don't know if it's worth changing the oil, except as a preventative replacement of seals is in order. 30k might be about right, but there others here that should give you a better idea of what's reasonable.

Bill MacDonald
Redmond, WA

'99 LT "Luther"

'03 Aprilia Tuono "Thunder"
'09 K1300S "Rufus II"

"The more I learn, the less I know"
Hairpin is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rough Start (video)!! I need HELP...please!! BlauBeeMr K1200LT 46 Feb 9th, 2011 11:37 am
Another LT That Won't Start. Vegas9mm K1200LT 9 Jul 12th, 2010 1:26 pm
No start this morning Harold-NY K1200LT 2 Mar 7th, 2010 5:39 pm
2003 LT a No Start Problem knlkern K1200LT 11 Aug 26th, 2008 9:00 pm
Triple BBG-Ride Report murray Ride Tales 8 Nov 20th, 2005 6:34 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome