Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 19 Old Jan 20th, 2011, 10:31 am Thread Starter
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Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

I am in the middle of a valve adjustment on my 2007 K-LT (my first). Inspection and disassemble went well (I had three buckets that are too tight and one too loose).

However I've made a mistake.

Using the knowledge base my first step in dis-assembly was to insert a #30 drill bit into a port to hold back the chain tensioner. I thought I did this correctly but I was wrong and now - while putting the cams back together - I find that the tension on the chain is making placement of the intake cam difficult.

[BTW: if anyone has an image of where to put the bit I would like to see it. I think I chose the wrong "middle screw"]

After many years of such trials I tend to use a soft hand so as not to brake the machinery.

My question to the group is this: what advise would the knowledgeable among us give to un-tension the timing chain "after the fact"? I have some ideas but I am sure someone has done this before.

My cam gears are properly secure to preserve the timing. The exhaust cam is back in place. It is the intake cam that I have to unload tension on to properly seat so I can torque it all down.

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

David Falkenstein

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post #2 of 19 Old Jan 20th, 2011, 3:52 pm
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Points: make sure the drill bit you're using isn't too big in diameter.
Press down slowly and patiently on the cam chain and rail to depress the tensioner and then insert the drill bit. It should hold the cam chain tensioner down and leave you with slack in the chain.

David, if you don't get it, PM me and I'll ride over and help. I've wrestled with exactly what your talking 'bout.
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post #3 of 19 Old Jan 20th, 2011, 8:21 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Understood and thank you. I'll try and contact you if I don't get it.

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post #4 of 19 Old Jan 20th, 2011, 9:14 pm
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

David,

The screw you remove is a very short torx screw with a gasket washer on it. All the rest are at least an inch or better long. 1/8 " rod or a #30 drill bit, any thing smaller will not hold the piston. Also a slow steady pull on the chain will get you some slack.

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post #5 of 19 Old Jan 20th, 2011, 9:31 pm
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Here is a pic of when I did mine. Slow steady push. When you put the valve cover back on don't forget to torque the bolt that is inside by the sparkplugs! If you don't lots of oil will be pumped out there! Don't ask how I know this.

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post #6 of 19 Old Jan 21st, 2011, 5:15 am
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
David,

The screw you remove is a very short torx screw with a gasket washer on it. All the rest are at least an inch or better long. 1/8 " rod or a #30 drill bit, any thing smaller will not hold the piston. Also a slow steady pull on the chain will get you some slack.
Just to clarify my comment about not using a drill bit of too large diameter: One time I just grabbed a drill bit that fit into the access hole but I couldn't get the end seated in what ever recess it engages. Consequently it wouldn't hold the the tensioner.
So apparently you can chose a tool that is either too big or too small.....
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post #7 of 19 Old Jan 21st, 2011, 6:06 am
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

If you have the sproket bolted to the exhaust cam you can now use the cam to very slowly and gently put tension on the chain to compress the tensioner. On my 02 there is a hex cast into the cams that a 19mm?? open end wrench will fit. I don't know if this was changed in the newer models or not.

First time I did mine had the same problem and in using the cam I found it was fairly easy to compress the tensioner. NOTE: Be VERY careful that you do not allow the chain to jump a tooth while doing this. I used three zip ties, better over kill than Oh sh*t...

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post #8 of 19 Old Jan 22nd, 2011, 6:43 am Thread Starter
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Thank you all! I haven't returned to the garage yet. At 5 degrees, I am not in the mood to work outside. I will wait until the mercury cooperates.

David Falkenstein

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post #9 of 19 Old Jan 22nd, 2011, 6:47 am
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

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Thank you all! I haven't returned to the garage yet. At 5 degrees, I am not in the mood to work outside. I will wait until the mercury cooperates.
Garage Heat:

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post #10 of 19 Old Jan 22nd, 2011, 7:19 am
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

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post #11 of 19 Old Jan 22nd, 2011, 8:46 am
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Hi there;
if you don't manage to get your tensioner holding pin in place, I can suggest another method of getting your camshaft driving sprockets back onto the front of the camshafts.
So presuming that you've figured out all the bucket swopping around you need to do, and you've then done it and then you've fitted the camshafts back in place and torqued up all the bearing keeps. Now you want to fit the driving sprocket to each camshaft but the tensioner is taking up all the slack in the chain; bugger as they say!
Now the upper part of the tensioner is just a guide; it doesn't do any tensioning; the one giving you the trouble is the bottom bit which is between the CRANKSHAFT sprocket and the EXHAUST camshaft sprocket. I am suggesting an alternative method of taking up the tensioning in this part of the chain which will give you the slack you are looking for.
THE METHOD!! With both camshafts in place, go ahead and fit the driving sprocket to the EXHAUST camshaft first; you need to do all the basic stuff getting that sprocket in the correct orientation, in which case it slips into a keyway on the end of the camshaft and you fit the bolt and tighten up so there's no slack, and a bit more, but don't try to torque it just yet.
Now we come to fitting the INLET camshaft sprocket and to do that we need to take the slack between the crankshaft and the exhaust camshaft.
The EXHAUST camshaft just right of halfway along it has flats on it which a metric spanner(wrench?) will fit tightly over; so get the right sized spanner(wrench?) and put it onto these flats on the exhaust camshaft and pull it UP, pretty good and hard and you should feel the camshaft rotating just a bit but what is happening is you are flattening the spring loaded tensioner and giving yourself enough chain slack to slip the INLET camshaft driving sprocket onto the end of the camshaft after doing all the correct alignment of the camshaft and the sprocket and relationship to the engine crankshaft (all this should have been done by tying the sprocket to the chain before the sprockets were taken off - but i think you will know all that anyway). So as soon as you can get the camshaft and sprocket aligned and the bolt in and tightened enough to make the set up secure, then you can ease off the tension you are putting on the exhaust camshaft with your spanner. All done, except the torquing up of the sprocket bolts - 56Nm in my Clymers, and even when doing this it is a good idea to hold each camshaft with a spanner over it's flats to avoid asking the chain to resist that 56Nm torque.(see more detail below, per Clymer).
I used this method on my K1100LT and the K1200 is the same construction layout; and the K12 Clymer page 93 step 6 details holding the camshaft while loosening; and page 95 step 8d details using a wrench over the flats for torquing up. But my method is to use that facility to take the tension out of the chain tensioner to get the inlet sprocket back on.
Hope this helps
Tony.
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post #12 of 19 Old Jan 22nd, 2011, 9:41 am
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Smile Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Excellent tip Tony! And Tk U for reminding me of something that I am pretty sure I had done in the past without even thinking about it. I had problems with the tensioner not being depressed properly early on in my LT work, and do recall managing to use one cam to get enough slack to mount the sprocket to the other cam. Just never actually thought it through. But your explanation is great! And it is clear enough that one can actually visualize it happening if you have ever been inside the engine.

Tks again!

John

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post #13 of 19 Old Jan 22nd, 2011, 2:56 pm
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Glad to help, but on review i see that Big Bear had already outlined the solution in many fewer words. Good one BB.
Tony.
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post #14 of 19 Old Jan 26th, 2011, 4:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Thank you!

With the advice and guidance from you guys I was successful in getting everything back together.

Cam shafts are properly seated and the engine rotates (using the back wheel) without any restrictions or noises.

A second check of my valve gaps shows number that I expect to see. So far I haven't screwed this up.

I do have one new issue to deal with: One of the thrust bearing caps (#4 cylinder exhaust) was stripped out of its threads.

here is what pisses me off: I didn't do it. It happened in the past, but I need to fix it.

The thrust bearing cap is apparently aluminum. Can I have a heli-coil installed to fix the threads?

Without the repair I fear I will lose the cap bolt in that location and spew oil everywhere.

Once I fix this I am going to sync the throttle bodies.

David Falkenstein

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post #15 of 19 Old Jan 26th, 2011, 4:54 pm
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Yes, You'll need to helicoil it Or Timesert.....Whichever one is better.... ... Dangit !!
Not having seen the brick engine in a couple of years.. Is there enough material there to helicoil it ?

I hate when that happens...But it can be fixed no problem...Even if you have to have the hole welded up and re-threaded. Anything can be fixed...

Good Luck

John

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post #16 of 19 Old Jan 26th, 2011, 9:29 pm
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

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WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN HEAT!!!!!!!!
If you get the right heater, the heat won't stink!

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post #17 of 19 Old Jan 26th, 2011, 9:55 pm
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by CohesiveTechnology
I do have one new issue to deal with: One of the thrust bearing caps (#4 cylinder exhaust) was stripped out of its threads.

here is what pisses me off: I didn't do it. It happened in the past, but I need to fix it.

The thrust bearing cap is apparently aluminum. Can I have a heli-coil installed to fix the threads?

Without the repair I fear I will lose the cap bolt in that location and spew oil everywhere.
Since this holds the rocker cover on you could get by with a JB weld fix here. The trick is those bolts are torqued properly when they just bottom out and snug up. Any more and it just pulls the threads. Clean the hole, add JB weld, lube the bolt and screw it gently into the cap. After it sets 24 hours break it free and install normally.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #18 of 19 Old Jan 27th, 2011, 5:27 pm
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

It'll helicoil OK; i did one on the K11 but it was the top left into the chain cover. Just take it really slow and think three or four times before doing anything.
Good luck
Tony.
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post #19 of 19 Old Jan 28th, 2011, 4:54 am
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Re: Which hole do I want?: Valve maintenance oops and advice needed

David,
I've got the helicoils for that.
Bring the bearing cap over to the little shops of horrors and we'll put one in.
(been there, done that)
PM sent
Quote:
Originally Posted by CohesiveTechnology
Thank you!

With the advice and guidance from you guys I was successful in getting everything back together.

Cam shafts are properly seated and the engine rotates (using the back wheel) without any restrictions or noises.

A second check of my valve gaps shows number that I expect to see. So far I haven't screwed this up.

I do have one new issue to deal with: One of the thrust bearing caps (#4 cylinder exhaust) was stripped out of its threads.

here is what pisses me off: I didn't do it. It happened in the past, but I need to fix it.

The thrust bearing cap is apparently aluminum. Can I have a heli-coil installed to fix the threads?

Without the repair I fear I will lose the cap bolt in that location and spew oil everywhere.

Once I fix this I am going to sync the throttle bodies.

Last edited by CharlieVT; Jan 28th, 2011 at 5:09 am.
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