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post #1 of 20 Old Jan 4th, 2011, 2:31 pm Thread Starter
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Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

I am in the process of disassembling things to do the weep hole procedure. I have encountered several issues that I need help/advice on.

First of all, I have found lock tite on every jamb nut and pivot pin. Had a heck of a time getting the things loose. I have successfully removed the 2 rear pivot bearings and the left side forward bearing journal (which was not torqued, only finger tight).

I cannot budge the right side bearing journal. I fractured the first socket I used to try to break it loose. I borrowed an IMPACT type 14 mm socket, but it was well used and had too much play. I then punched out the 14mm hex bit from its' socket housing and tried that socket. Nothing has moved. I heated the whole works with a heat gun and no luck. I then used a MAP torch to heat the journal and still cannot budge it. I don't think the 14mm socket housing is all that hard as it has slight disfigurement after using it. Now the flats on the journal are slightly wallered adding to the problem.

Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

The next issue is the rear pivot bearings. Should the bearing race fall out? or should it stay in place? I see a groove on the inner side? It is a little hard to see in the attached photos, hope I have splained it right.

The other issue, in the photo you can see where the end of the pivot is slightly chewed out. There was also some filings inside the aft portion of the swing arm. I couldn't see any marks on the aft U joint?

Should I order new pivot bearings?

This is the last thing I need to remove to get the swing arm out. Also, John Z, your video is excellent and extremely helpful, Thanks so much.
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Bill
Eastern Virginia (Middle Peninsula)
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California Sidecar Friendship II
99 K1200LT, Basalt Gray "DELILAH" (SOLD)
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post #2 of 20 Old Jan 4th, 2011, 3:00 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Nothing should be Loctited. Your pivot pin bearing race is fine. It should be loose.
The damage to the pin has me confused. This would be caused by the driveshaft.
Pop it loose by prying it off the drive with a large screwdriver. Then check for looseness
in the shaft coming out of the rear drive.
Get a GOOD 14mm socket and a 3-4 ft cheater. It may take 5-700 lb/ft of torque to
break loose.

dan
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post #3 of 20 Old Jan 4th, 2011, 3:58 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

I'm having trouble understanding what is is you can't break loose.
Sometimes when a fastener get rounded, the tool can be made to engage much better by putting valve lapping compound between the fastener and the wrench. Valve lapping compound is available in little tube at the autoparts store.

WRT pivot bearings, yes the races often drop out. I'd replace them anyway. In one of your pics it looks like the race is notched from the needle bearings.

As Dan suggests, remove the input U-joint from the final drive. Two big screwdrivers or tire irons opposite each other under the U-joint and levered against the FD housing will pop the U-joint out. It is possible that the U-joint isn't properly seated and the internal spring clip isn't engaged; in that case you would be able to just pull the U-joint off by hand. It it is the case that it isn't properly seated, that would explain the damage to the pivot pin.

After removing the U-joint check the joint itself for any play and also as Dan suggests check the input shaft of the FD. I am more suspicious of the the input U-joint more than I would suspect the input shaft of the FD but it could be either.

HTH and let us know what you find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatzo
I am in the process of disassembling things to do the weep hole procedure. I have encountered several issues that I need help/advice on.

First of all, I have found lock tite on every jamb nut and pivot pin. Had a heck of a time getting the things loose. I have successfully removed the 2 rear pivot bearings and the left side forward bearing journal (which was not torqued, only finger tight).

I cannot budge the right side bearing journal. I fractured the first socket I used to try to break it loose. I borrowed an IMPACT type 14 mm socket, but it was well used and had too much play. I then punched out the 14mm hex bit from its' socket housing and tried that socket. Nothing has moved. I heated the whole works with a heat gun and no luck. I then used a MAP torch to heat the journal and still cannot budge it. I don't think the 14mm socket housing is all that hard as it has slight disfigurement after using it. Now the flats on the journal are slightly wallered adding to the problem.

Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

The next issue is the rear pivot bearings. Should the bearing race fall out? or should it stay in place? I see a groove on the inner side? It is a little hard to see in the attached photos, hope I have splained it right.

The other issue, in the photo you can see where the end of the pivot is slightly chewed out. There was also some filings inside the aft portion of the swing arm. I couldn't see any marks on the aft U joint?

Should I order new pivot bearings?

This is the last thing I need to remove to get the swing arm out. Also, John Z, your video is excellent and extremely helpful, Thanks so much.
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post #4 of 20 Old Jan 4th, 2011, 5:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Thanks for the input Curtis and Dan. I will look for a good 14mm socket tomorrow. There isn't a lot to choose from down here in the marshes. I'll also try the lapping compound. I just hope I can get the thing loose. Guess I better order a new right side pivot bearing journal along with the needle bearings. As I said, the flats are now distorted so I want to be able to remove the thing in the future. I am well aware that Locktite should not be used on these items, but I have what I inherited and have to deal with it. Rest assured that there will not be any locktite going back in.

I researched the maint records that I have from the PO and see that the drive shaft & pivot bearing was replaced at around 20k miles. It is kind of vague and says PIVOT BEARING (singular) ??

So y-all think I should order new pivot (needle) bearings in any case?

Thanks again for your help.

Bill
Eastern Virginia (Middle Peninsula)
K3ZXV
05 Honda Sabre 1100
04 Triumph Speedmaster , Black with
California Sidecar Friendship II
99 K1200LT, Basalt Gray "DELILAH" (SOLD)
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post #5 of 20 Old Jan 4th, 2011, 6:12 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

I would check out all of the videos from:

jzeiler
Wrencher Extraordinaire

He has put together a great series of video on swing arm and final drive removal.
(sorry no link)

Tvguy
'16 R1200RT - "Golden Eye"
'11 R1200RT - "Night Fury" SOLD
'02 K1200LTE - "The Silver Bullet" SOLD

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post #6 of 20 Old Jan 4th, 2011, 6:38 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

I have destroyed a few of these. I had some "outside" easyouts that I drove onto the rounded pivot pins with an impact wrench until it was set on there really well. I then used a socket and long breaker bar to get it loose. Be aware that if you can get one pin out you can remove the swing arm with the other pin still in place, if the exhaust is off the bike.

This is what I did when I tore mine down for the clutch job. I could not get one of them to break free (no loctite as I put it on last time) until I had the swing arm out and where I could get at it. Good luck.

I would advise you to replace the bearings in the rear drive pivots as they get "notchy" and it makes it hard to set the 7Nm torque unless they are smooth.

Here you see the extractor #10 from sears. It was worn out after one use and buggered the second pin so bad I could not get a "bite" on it until I could cut off some of it after I got the swingarm free.
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John
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Last edited by jzeiler; Jan 4th, 2011 at 6:48 pm.
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post #7 of 20 Old Jan 5th, 2011, 12:30 am Thread Starter
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Thanks John, that info is helpful. Mine is still in tact, just slightly distorted. I do have the left side pin loose and the exhaust removed so I can try to remove the swing arm. The left side pin had no torque (and no locktite) on it, turned out by hand.

I am going to Sears tomorrow to get my fractured socket replaced, I'll look for those easy outs. I am wondering how to hold the swing arm when removed while trying to remove the bolt with a long cheater? Maybe I can have Gretchen stand on it? That ought to be a good one.

I am waiting to get everything removed and the slave opened up so I can determine what all parts I need and then make an order. I do have the shaft seal in hand as discussed in a previous thread.

Bill
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K3ZXV
05 Honda Sabre 1100
04 Triumph Speedmaster , Black with
California Sidecar Friendship II
99 K1200LT, Basalt Gray "DELILAH" (SOLD)
99 R1100RT ,Glacier Green (SOLD
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post #8 of 20 Old Jan 5th, 2011, 3:05 am
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

I just rebuilt a FD that had blue loctite on the pivot pin threads. It took awhile to remove ALL of the loctite with a dental pick. You must be able to screw the pins in & out freely by hand in order to set the proper preload on the pivot bearings.

Dave Selvig
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2000 Canon Red LT



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post #9 of 20 Old Jan 5th, 2011, 2:36 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Good news Thanks to John's suggestion, I was able to remove the swing arm by taking out the left side pivot. Once I got it on the floor and armed with a new 14mm socket and grinding compound, I managed to completely ruin the bolt head on the right side pivot.

I took the thing to my buddy at an auto shop and he put a BAPW (big ass pipe wrench) on the bolt head and it snapped loose. Why didn't I think of that? So now I am ordering the new parts and will move forward.

I backed out the clutch slave cyl and had a look. There is transmission oil in the cavity, but not excessive. I have a new seal to install once I get the old one out. The slave cyl. has no leaks and there are no leaks around the splined main shaft. The spline lube was good too.

Thanks again for all the help. This forum cannot be beat

Bill
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K3ZXV
05 Honda Sabre 1100
04 Triumph Speedmaster , Black with
California Sidecar Friendship II
99 K1200LT, Basalt Gray "DELILAH" (SOLD)
99 R1100RT ,Glacier Green (SOLD
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post #10 of 20 Old Jan 5th, 2011, 6:59 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Glad you got it out, they can be a real bear. As long as there was no tranmission oil up in the slave you should be alright. If it did make its way to the seals I would replace the slave. Also if you are upwards of 60K on mileage and it is the original slave I would consider a preemptive replacement.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #11 of 20 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 6:40 am Thread Starter
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Glad you got it out, they can be a real bear. As long as there was no tranmission oil up in the slave you should be alright. If it did make its way to the seals I would replace the slave. Also if you are upwards of 60K on mileage and it is the original slave I would consider a preemptive replacement.
John, Thanks again for the input. I do not know if it is the original slave, it is not listed in any of the main.t records the PO gave me? I have 65k miles so, taking your advice, I just ordered one from Boneyard.

I have another question. I ordered new needle bearings for the rear pivots in addition to a new pivot that was chewed a bit and of course a new pivot to replace the one that got wallered in the disassembly. I was looking and trying to remove the needle bearings and before I waller anything else, HOW DO YOU GET THEM OUT?

73s

Bill
Eastern Virginia (Middle Peninsula)
K3ZXV
05 Honda Sabre 1100
04 Triumph Speedmaster , Black with
California Sidecar Friendship II
99 K1200LT, Basalt Gray "DELILAH" (SOLD)
99 R1100RT ,Glacier Green (SOLD
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post #12 of 20 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 2:07 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

My gracious Bill! You are really giving that new lift a workout! Kudos to you for performing this service.

If you are referring to the inner race of the pivot bearings you can get a handy dandy little internal puller from Harbor Freight. The item number is 95987. It is called a blind hole bearing puller and it worked great when I pulled the pivot bearings on my bike.

Loren

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatzo
John, Thanks again for the input. I do not know if it is the original slave, it is not listed in any of the main.t records the PO gave me? I have 65k miles so, taking your advice, I just ordered one from Boneyard.

I have another question. I ordered new needle bearings for the rear pivots in addition to a new pivot that was chewed a bit and of course a new pivot to replace the one that got wallered in the disassembly. I was looking and trying to remove the needle bearings and before I waller anything else, HOW DO YOU GET THEM OUT?

73s

WAK1200LT
Loren

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post #13 of 20 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 3:15 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Snip>>>If you are referring to the inner race of the pivot bearings you can get a handy dandy little internal puller from Harbor Freight<<<

Or.... drive them out with a socket & a socket extension . Put the extension thru the opposite side, then put the socket on the extension . Then you can drive it out ....

Patric Blackman
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post #14 of 20 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 7:38 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Aha! 'Tis true but then you won't have the handy dandy little internal bearing puller from Harbor Freight!

Loren

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patric
Snip>>>If you are referring to the inner race of the pivot bearings you can get a handy dandy little internal puller from Harbor Freight<<<

Or.... drive them out with a socket & a socket extension . Put the extension thru the opposite side, then put the socket on the extension . Then you can drive it out ....

WAK1200LT
Loren

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post #15 of 20 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 9:26 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

And, when you replace the seal just in front of the Slave Cylinder, remember that you do NOT drive it in until it stops, only to the depth of the original one. Failure to do this WILL result in a leak and destroy the new cylinder, the clutch, etc......

Jack Homesley
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post #16 of 20 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 9:36 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Pastor Jack is correct. You can use a deep socket to drive the new seal in place. Before you remove the old seal take the same socket and put it in the pocket and make a mark on the side of the socket even with the outside edge of the slave pocket. Then you have the depth to drive the new seal into.

I tried a handy dandy Harbour Freight ball joint tool on the last batch of pivot bearings and went back to my truty socket and extention method of removal. Just make sure you fully seat the races when you install them. It does help to heat the area to about 120 degrees C. They almost fall out.

John
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
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post #17 of 20 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 6:29 am Thread Starter
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Loren, Yes I am getting my money's worth out of that lift (and my wood stove). I wish I had gotten the lift a long time ago. My knees and back are much better.

Pastor Jack and John Z, I followed John's instructions in the video and put masking tape on a 21 mm deep socket and marked it. Also measured the depth before removal and it is just a little over 37mm. Remeasured several times as I was installing the seal till I got 37 mm. I had a caliper with a depth rod that I use to use for reloading and trimming shell casings. I drilled the weep hole yesterday with no problems although I was very apprehensive about getting started. The whole process has been interesting and again, John's video and the pdf file on the same subject, have been invaluable. Thanks to all.

John, I like your idea on heating the pivot bearing inner races, I'll try that. Otherwise I think using a socket will save time. I get some things from HF but the nearest store is 60 miles away and I sometimes order on line, but if I can use what I have all the better.

Bill
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K3ZXV
05 Honda Sabre 1100
04 Triumph Speedmaster , Black with
California Sidecar Friendship II
99 K1200LT, Basalt Gray "DELILAH" (SOLD)
99 R1100RT ,Glacier Green (SOLD
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post #18 of 20 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 7:00 am Thread Starter
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

Another 2 questions: I feel like Columbo, "just one more question"

1st- I have seen a few comments about drilling another weep hole somewhere under the clutch. Is this a good idea and where do I put the hole?

2nd- When reinstalling the drive shaft. It looks to me like it would be easier to seat the drive shaft on the spline first and then slide the swing arm over it? The Clymer says to do it this way as well, but I see that you guys put the swing arm in place first and then insert the drive shaft. Comments please.

Bill
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K3ZXV
05 Honda Sabre 1100
04 Triumph Speedmaster , Black with
California Sidecar Friendship II
99 K1200LT, Basalt Gray "DELILAH" (SOLD)
99 R1100RT ,Glacier Green (SOLD
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post #19 of 20 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 11:29 am
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

I found that it is tricky enough just to get the swing arm in the right position WITHOUT having the driveline in the mix. I tried it with the driveline in place first and then abandoned the idea. The driveline was easy to seat on the splines after the SA was in position.

Loren


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatzo
Another 2 questions: I feel like Columbo, "just one more question"

<Snip>

2nd- When reinstalling the drive shaft. It looks to me like it would be easier to seat the drive shaft on the spline first and then slide the swing arm over it? The Clymer says to do it this way as well, but I see that you guys put the swing arm in place first and then insert the drive shaft. Comments please.

WAK1200LT
Loren

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post #20 of 20 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 8:17 pm
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Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal

You have the exhaust off so it is easier to install the shaft first and then slide the swingarm up into place.

The weep hole under the clutch is of limited value and will not protect anything. I drilled one when mine was slipping and even ran pipe cleaners up the hole and never got anything.

John
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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