Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 10:25 am Thread Starter
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Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

A bit of history about the bike. Its an 05 that I got used earlier this year. At the time it had less than 24K miles on it. It now has 28K miles on it. As far as I know, it is up with it services. While the dealer had it for sale, they discovered a seal was leaking and the oil that got past it had contaminated the clutch disc, so they replaced the seal and put in a new clutch. Sorry, not up on my terminology of what seal etc.

I have had the bike out on short to meduim day trips with no issues. Last weekend was my first extended ride on it, all across Washington state at speed for hours and hours. Did 600 mile days on average. Again no issues. This past weekend, Fri/Sat, was out again ranging across eastern Oregon, again for hours and hours at speed, Fri was 10+ hours, Sat a bit over 5. Last rest stop before home, looked bike over and this is basically what I saw. Got home and looked it over again and figured at least the riding I wanted to get done this season I was able to do.

I have not moved the boot yet or done anything to it other than look and take photos. What should I be looking for when I move the boot? Anything else or anywhere else to check? I have tried to give the back tire a good shake and can't feel any movement.




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post #2 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 10:48 am
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

When you pull the boot, there will be some gear oil that will drain out. Can't tell you how much. When mine did this there was about a teaspoon of oil.

The problem will be either the tranny output shaft seal or the final drive seal. Mine was the tranny ouput shaft seal, replaced under warrantee last year. Bike had about 30K on it.

Tony

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post #3 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 10:54 am Thread Starter
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

If its one of those two seals is it something a backyard hack mechanic can do or should it go to the shop?


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post #4 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 11:25 am
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

It is pretyy easy to do once you get to it. Take a look at the Weep Hole video in the stickey at the top of the page (part A). It will show you what you have to do to get to it. If is is a minor leak, which most of them are, just leave it until you need to get in there. If it is much more than a teaspoon full after 10K I would go after it.

John
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post #5 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 2:13 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
It is pretyy easy to do once you get to it. Take a look at the Weep Hole video in the stickey at the top of the page (part A). It will show you what you have to do to get to it. If is is a minor leak, which most of them are, just leave it until you need to get in there. If it is much more than a teaspoon full after 10K I would go after it.
Ditto on what the master mechanic said.. I will add that for piece of mind I wanted to know where (which end) the leak originated. Much easier to ride a ruff ride if the gear box seals are leaking, rather the final drive!

My solution to this was to replace the final drive oil with royal purple. Clean the boot area, ride for a bit and check the boot for oil. I could make out that the oil inside the boot was regular (not colored) so my mind was set at ease with a gear box seal leak.

That said, I honestly have not seen a leak as prominent as the one in your pictures. It would seem to me that it is excessive and not a simple leak...

Hoss
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post #6 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 2:42 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Have yet to get off my backside and crawl under the bike............but if its a transmission seal, is this something that most likely BMW did when they did the clutch etc and may be covered under warranty for work they did? I ony ask because after their work with the clutch etc, the load shed relay bolt was not put back in properly and after buying the bike I had to take it back to them to have the bolt put in. That was after the tech asked what bolt I was talking about and had me show him where it was supposed to be.


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post #7 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 3:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

OK, got under the bike, cleaned it all up and loosened the boot and pushed it towards the rear. Yup, some nice beautiful clean oil came dripping out, maybe a spoon full actually plopped out. Sticking my finger in the swing arm, seems well lubed towards the front of the bike. So does this sound like the transmission seal, the one the shop replaced along with the clutch?? Their problem??

If the rain holds off for a bit, will take it for a spin to see if I can get more oil to migrate to the boot??


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post #8 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 4:14 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sit
Have yet to get off my backside and crawl under the bike............but if its a transmission seal, is this something that most likely BMW did when they did the clutch etc and may be covered under warranty for work they did? I ony ask because after their work with the clutch etc, the load shed relay bolt was not put back in properly and after buying the bike I had to take it back to them to have the bolt put in. That was after the tech asked what bolt I was talking about and had me show him where it was supposed to be.
I would be surprised if they replaced this seal during a clutch replacement, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

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post #9 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 4:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

They did the clutch because some seal leaked and contaminated the clutch. Tech on ride notice clutch slipping...that's why they did the seal and clutch. Are we talking about the same seal that may now be leaking?


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post #10 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 4:25 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sit
They did the clutch because some seal leaked and contaminated the clutch. Tech on ride notice clutch slipping...that's why they did the seal and clutch. Are we talking about the same seal that may now be leaking?
I have not personally had an LT apart, so hopefully John will chime in here, but I have worked on many other standard shift vehicles and I can't imagine the output shaft seal having a means to contaminate the clutch. The clutch is located between the engine and the transmission. This means that it is vulnerable to a leak on the output side (rear crankshaft seal typically) of the engine or the input side of the transmission. So, I suspect they replaced either the engine crankshaft seal OR the transmission input shaft seal. The other possibility unique to the LT is the slave cylinder seal can also leak and contaminate the clutch. However, I don't see how the transmission output shaft seal could cause clutch damage, but will need to let someone who has actually had an LT apart comment on that.

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post #11 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 4:43 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Way too many seals for me. It's all Greek to me.


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post #12 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 6:14 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Normally that seal is not touched during a clutch job unless it is leaking. It has no effect on the clutch. Mine started leaking at 18K on my 05 and I had them replace it under warranty. With the right tools it is about a four hour job to replace.

John
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #13 of 23 Old Sep 19th, 2010, 7:02 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Guess I will try to get some of the paperwork for the repair to see if it was done for some reason. Ride the bike and see if it is still leaking or if by some miracle it was some freak one time leak, hahahahaha. And then start calling around to see who can do it for what.


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post #14 of 23 Old Sep 20th, 2011, 10:02 am
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Hi, I'm riding a 2009 K1200LT I just returned from a trip to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, & Gaspe Bay, while on he trip, I noticed a black viscous oil/grease weeping out of the bottom section of the boot & running down the swing arm, some also on the rear rim & tire, cleaned it off but it kept weeping. I removed the tie wrap & hose clamp, & a fair drop of water came out. I checked the oil level of the FD & the front gear box ( removed front foot rest to check this one), both levels were O.K. Note we had been riding through rain on this trip, called a friend, figured water had got in past the boot & washed the grease off the drive shaft splines, had no choice but to keep riding it home, it,s now in for a service, dealer confirmed no seal leaking, but i have asked him to remove the drive shaft & relube the splines. I will be removing this boot to check for water more frequently in future. would anyone have any thoughts on this?

Last edited by 81sumer; Sep 20th, 2011 at 10:08 am.
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post #15 of 23 Old Sep 20th, 2011, 11:20 am
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Water usually enters when the front boot (between the swing arm and tranny) is not seated. Lubing the splines on the LT is not critical as they do not slide like the early bikes but are held captive with a circlip on each end. Make sure that front boot is seated.

John
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post #16 of 23 Old Sep 20th, 2011, 11:31 am
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

reply to SIT:

Check your invoice detail for this BMW part number: 23127705085 (approx $14)
The catalog description is: SHAFT SEAL, DRIVE SHAFT - 17X28X7
This is the transmission Seal where the Drive-Shaft is connected.

As others have mentioned, the dealer does not need to replace this seal for a clutch job, but some will do all the seals while they are in this area and everything is apart.

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post #17 of 23 Old Sep 20th, 2011, 1:53 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Hi John, Thanks for the reply, I will check the seating of the boot when the service is complete, thanks for commenting on the spline drive grease, it's reassuring to know, that no damage should have occurred to the bike during my ride home.
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post #18 of 23 Old Sep 20th, 2011, 6:39 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Terry,

You are in the same town as Jim (RealWing) Bagshaw. Have you ever hooked up with Jim? He is quite a wrench.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #19 of 23 Old Sep 21st, 2011, 4:20 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Hi, That.s amazing that you know of Jim Bagshaw, my friend who I was on this trip with, knows Jim & we called him while in the Gaspe Bay, he gave me the confidence to keep riding the bike, after I'd checked out all his suggestions, I am hoping to find an excuse to hook up with him in person in the near future
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post #20 of 23 Old Sep 21st, 2011, 7:14 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

A "wrench" That is me - I can take anything apart!!!!

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post #21 of 23 Old Sep 22nd, 2011, 12:45 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 81sumer
Hi, That.s amazing that you know of Jim Bagshaw, my friend who I was on this trip with, knows Jim & we called him while in the Gaspe Bay, he gave me the confidence to keep riding the bike, after I'd checked out all his suggestions, I am hoping to find an excuse to hook up with him in person in the near future
Hang around this site long enough and go to a few CCRs and you will meet a great bunch of people.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #22 of 23 Old Sep 22nd, 2011, 2:58 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sit
Way too many seals for me. It's all Greek to me.
While I am not the mechanic that many on this site are, I have had that experience of looking at that same oil residue and thinking the worst. With a little guidance (Thanks John) and some Royal Purple gear lube, I was able to determine that i have a minor trans output seal leak. I just clean it up from time to time, check my trans fluid level regularly and keep riding. I have yet to add any trans lube between 12,000 mile changes or rear gear lube between 5,000 mile changes. A little bit of oil can make a bigger mess than you think. Check your fluid levels regularly and keep riding...

Doug

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post #23 of 23 Old Sep 22nd, 2011, 3:24 pm
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Re: Oil around boot between final drive and swing arm

I have had the identical oil stain around my rear boot since I've owned the bike, 4 years. I just returned from a 6500 mile trip and drained about a teaspoon of clear oil. At this rate its not something I'm worried about, I check it occasionally for an increase in leakage and always find it stable. After 2000 miles there are only a few drops in there so I doubt you'll find much if you check after a few short rides, if you do it may be an issue.

I wipe it clean every month and watch for additional weeping.

R

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