Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 10 Old Sep 12th, 2010, 6:44 am Thread Starter
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Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play

Every weekend I check the air pressure in the tires of my 2005 LT. But I rarely do a 3:00 - 9:00 position push/pull on the rear tire to check for play. Well I did the other weekend and I detected some play. How much? Not sure - don't have a dial indicator, etc. More play than usual? I don't know. I thought I remembered no play in the past. Wheel bolts are tight. Tires are both near new and I don't hear or feel anything strange when riding it.

Can I see movement in the tire/ Maybe? Is there any leak anywhere around the FD or tire/wheel? None.

I did drain the FD fluid into a clear bottle. The amount of fuzz on the magnet seems virtually nil and no chunks. A little dark dusting settled out in the bottle.

So, am I just seeing normal slight play and need to stop worrying? Or could this be the beginning of real failure and I just found out early? This is bugging me.

Oh yeah, not quite 27,000 miles on her.

Jon

2011 R1200RT - not named yet

2005 K1200LT Blue - "Sapphire" - gone
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post #2 of 10 Old Sep 12th, 2010, 8:06 am
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Cool Re: Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play

Nothing real unusual here Jon. I would check the torque on your pivot bearings as that is the most likely culprit of any wheel play. The other remote possibility is the swing arm bearings, but that would allow the whole swing arm to be moving, not just the wheel.As far as this being an indicator of possible FD bearing failure, I would say probably not. There was thought early on that this was just that, an early indicator of the FD failure, but the facts have since indicated that it is most likely those pivot bearings. And it may very well be cured by simply re-torquing them to specs.

HTH calm any fears you may have,

John

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post #3 of 10 Old Sep 12th, 2010, 9:35 am
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Re: Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play

If you want to see what is involved in setting the pivot bearing preload you can down load Weep A (drive removal) and Weep C (drive installation) of the weep hole video sticky at the top of the page.
My vote is your play is from the pivot bearings. There have been some 05 drive failures but it was not the big bearing like so many of the earlier bikes but rather the smaller taper bearing coming loose on the shaft.

John
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2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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post #4 of 10 Old Sep 13th, 2010, 4:50 am
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Re: Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play

I realize that they're different machines but the swingarms and final drives are about the same. I had some 3/9 movement in the rear wheel on my RT when I first got it this spring. Ended up being the needle bearing for the final drive/swingarm pivot. 2 needles were already out of the races. I replaced the bearing with the bushing from Rubber Chicken Racing. I had removed the swingarm and driveshaft- all else checked out fine. All is well now.

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post #5 of 10 Old Sep 13th, 2010, 5:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play

Thanks for the replies. John's videos (1 & 3, but also saw 2) are very good to size up what to expect. Thanks John for making and posting them.

Looks like I should check the swing arm bearings. I don't have one of those fancy slot-cut 30mm sockets. Does BMW sell us mortals their version of it or must I find a shop that could cut me one? I don't have the facilities/tools to cut something like that.

Did a search here and saw someone saying some blue locktite (a drop?) on the fixed bearing journal (one with the locknut) torqued down and left to sit overnight, marked to indicate any movement, and tighten the big 30mm locknut work?

Or it that just silly?

Jon

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post #6 of 10 Old Sep 13th, 2010, 8:54 pm
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Re: Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsd-tourteam
Thanks for the replies. John's videos (1 & 3, but also saw 2) are very good to size up what to expect. Thanks John for making and posting them.

Looks like I should check the swing arm bearings. I don't have one of those fancy slot-cut 30mm sockets. Does BMW sell us mortals their version of it or must I find a shop that could cut me one? I don't have the facilities/tools to cut something like that.

Did a search here and saw someone saying some blue locktite (a drop?) on the fixed bearing journal (one with the locknut) torqued down and left to sit overnight, marked to indicate any movement, and tighten the big 30mm locknut work?

Or it that just silly?

Jon
You are welcome. Nothing wrong with the loctite method except next time you have to clean it all out really good to set the 7Nm pre-load properly. I have pulled a few apart that did have loctite on them.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #7 of 10 Old Apr 1st, 2013, 10:08 pm
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Re: Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play

From what I've heard the FD won't show in a "wiggle test" until it's completely shot, or nearly so. More likely the swing arm pivot points or the pivot bearings.

There is a sticky thread on this subject. The only more-or-less reliable predictors of FD failure seem to be small CHIPS of metal on the magnet, unusual darkening of the fluid (from high temperatures), or a sudden increase in the rate that the "fuzz" accumulates. (Some "fuzz" is normal, of course. Gears in sheer always make metal to some extent.)
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post #8 of 10 Old Apr 2nd, 2013, 6:43 am
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Re: Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play

Three year old thread, hope he got it fixed already.
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post #9 of 10 Old Apr 2nd, 2013, 7:40 am
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Re: Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play

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Originally Posted by DanMartin
Three year old thread, hope he got it fixed already.
Thanks Dan, I didn't catch that....
deleted my reply.
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post #10 of 10 Old Apr 2nd, 2013, 1:07 pm
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Re: Early stages FD failure? No leak just some play

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsko
From what I've heard the FD won't show in a "wiggle test" until it's completely shot, or nearly so. More likely the swing arm pivot points or the pivot bearings.

There is a sticky thread on this subject. The only more-or-less reliable predictors of FD failure seem to be small CHIPS of metal on the magnet, unusual darkening of the fluid (from high temperatures), or a sudden increase in the rate that the "fuzz" accumulates. (Some "fuzz" is normal, of course. Gears in sheer always make metal to some extent.)
Depends on the failure. Big bearing this is true and most likely to be seen in a 99-2003. The taper bearing will show significant wiggle, still be very driveable and be a long way away from a catastrophic failure. This is seen more on the 05 and later. The mode is the taper bearing starts spinning on the hub pivot and is verified by non-magnetic dark material in the oil (aluminum from the hub). If caught early the bearing can be fixed to the shaft with Loctite sleeve retainer. Mine had lost about 3/4 of a mm and I had to install a custom made sleeve to fix it.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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