I've got problems and am on the road - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 66 Old Jul 5th, 2010, 4:48 pm Thread Starter
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I've got problems and am on the road

Wife and I are currently in Clarksville, Ga and have and engine problem on the 2003 K1200LTE. It started suddenly after a lunch stop as a bad miss and hesitation above an idle with a real uneven idle. The idle varies just about 100 rpm but has an intermittent miss. The miss becomes steady just above an idle but tries to smooth out at about 3000rpm.

I have my GS911 and laptop with me but it shows no faults. I tried disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes and did a TPS reset...no change there.

I had ridden about 170 miles from the last fuel stop, so I don't think it is bad gas.

Does anyone know of a close dealer....Clarksville is in north Ga. I think the closest may be Touring Sports in Greenville, SC. I am not sure I can limp it that far.


Ron


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

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2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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post #2 of 66 Old Jul 5th, 2010, 5:07 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

dont know how a gs XXworks but it sounds like a plug or lead to happen that quick, good luck hope you get on your way quickly cant help you with a dealer. still could be fuel.

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post #3 of 66 Old Jul 5th, 2010, 5:45 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

I'm about 70 miles away , call me at Home 770 476 0580 or cell 404 401 0827 if help still needed.

Bruce Kincheloe
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post #4 of 66 Old Jul 5th, 2010, 5:46 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Shot in the dark; loosen the gas cap and listen for vacuum releasing. Does it idle smoothly with the cap loosened?

Any chance the tank was overfilled at the last gas stop? Next step: cannisterectomy.

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post #5 of 66 Old Jul 5th, 2010, 5:52 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Thanks guys,

I get no hiss when loosening the fuel cap...I forgot to mention I had already tried that.


Ron


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

IBA 45658 MOA167437

2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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post #6 of 66 Old Jul 5th, 2010, 6:20 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
Thanks guys,

I get no hiss when loosening the fuel cap...I forgot to mention I had already tried that.


Ron
Touring Sports? Isn't that where Bob Menton hangs out - in Greenville? I've got his home and cell if you want me to PM ya. BTW, would a roasted/toasted O2 sensor throw a fault on the GS911? I think it does, so if no fault, then that thang is good. How about draining what gas is left in the tank and do a slow re-fill and see what happens. Or checking the throttle bodies to make sure hoses are fitted. That's my limit of suggestions, Ron. Holler if you want Menton's #s.
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post #7 of 66 Old Jul 5th, 2010, 6:33 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

I'm thinking either funky fuel, or a spark plug or spark plug lead going bad...Guess it could be an injector as well but probably not..

I'd drain the tank, Refill with fresh fuel and give that a go. Then I'd look at the plugs..

John

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post #8 of 66 Old Jul 5th, 2010, 8:03 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

BMW Motorcycles of Atlanta, in Marietta, GA (866-984-9844) has got to be closer to you than Touring Sport in Greenville, SC. They have a good reputation - give them a call.

- Bob

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post #9 of 66 Old Jul 5th, 2010, 10:07 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Ron, good luck. Our kids live in ATL and we get through there a lot. BMW of ATL is a reputable dealer and should be able to help. Blue Moon is closer, but I don't know about their service. If you decide on BMW-ATL, you may want to arrange trailering it in as traffic around Marietta is pretty bad... Good luck!

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post #10 of 66 Old Jul 5th, 2010, 10:52 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Ron,
I'm 1 hr away and have a trailer if you need help. 678-463-5322

Ron

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post #11 of 66 Old Jul 6th, 2010, 5:53 am
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Any updates on Ron?

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post #12 of 66 Old Jul 6th, 2010, 1:43 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Update:

I limped it to Touring sports in Greenville, SC ( about 85 miles)....They took me right in but did not find any faults either.. Service guy seems to think the throttle bodies need to be replaced and there are none in the US. Said it could take 2 weeks from the motherland.

We are going to get a good rest then try to limp this puppy back to Texas....so if you are riding I-20 from Atlanta to Tyler and see us on the side of the road...WAVE.

There was no additional change in behavior in the extra 170 miles I rode it today so we just might make it. Once I get home I will get it to Mike at Lone Star and have him work his magic on it.

Thanks for the offers and assistance,

Ron


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

IBA 45658 MOA167437

2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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post #13 of 66 Old Jul 6th, 2010, 2:47 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

I hope you find that with the next couple of tanks of gas things will inprove...

I don't see the throttle bodies going bad.. Obviously you don't either since you're trying to get her back home..

Good Luck

John

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post #14 of 66 Old Jul 6th, 2010, 3:34 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Hmm...sounds fishy to me. As was mentioned, throttle bodies don't usually just go bad. I can't help but wonder if one of the rubber seals that connects the throttle bodies to the intake might have gone bad (cracked or maybe loose). If so, you might have a lean running condition on your hands, and running it further could prove detrimental. Hope not. Keep an eye on your oil too. Other things to check might include; coolant temp sensor, cam sensor, O2 sensor. All the best. Hope you make it home ok.

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post #15 of 66 Old Jul 6th, 2010, 3:58 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
Update:

I limped it to Touring sports in Greenville, SC ( about 85 miles)....They took me right in but did not find any faults either.. Service guy seems to think the throttle bodies need to be replaced and there are none in the US. Said it could take 2 weeks from the motherland.

We are going to get a good rest then try to limp this puppy back to Texas....so if you are riding I-20 from Atlanta to Tyler and see us on the side of the road...WAVE.

There was no additional change in behavior in the extra 170 miles I rode it today so we just might make it. Once I get home I will get it to Mike at Lone Star and have him work his magic on it.

Thanks for the offers and assistance,

Ron
Ron,

what a diagnose is that? Throttle bodies need to be replaced?? I've never heard that those wear out to the condition that they need to be replaced. The rubber connectors - yes - but not the throttle bodies themselves.
I would aslo check the crankcase vent hose...

Good luck!

Regards

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

Hyvinkää, Finland
2004 ('05) LT, Dark Graphite, "Sunset Cruiser II"

Bike trip from Finland to USA:

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post #16 of 66 Old Jul 6th, 2010, 4:00 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
Update:

I limped it to Touring sports in Greenville, SC ( about 85 miles)....They took me right in but did not find any faults either.. Service guy seems to think the throttle bodies need to be replaced and there are none in the US. Said it could take 2 weeks from the motherland.

We are going to get a good rest then try to limp this puppy back to Texas....so if you are riding I-20 from Atlanta to Tyler and see us on the side of the road...WAVE.

There was no additional change in behavior in the extra 170 miles I rode it today so we just might make it. Once I get home I will get it to Mike at Lone Star and have him work his magic on it.

Thanks for the offers and assistance,

Ron
Other than the TPS sensor on the throttle body there isn't much that can go wrong. I have a good spare throttle body with the TPS sensor at home. I won't be back home until this Sunday.

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post #17 of 66 Old Jul 6th, 2010, 4:12 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Ron have you tried good old fuel injector cleaner like you put in the car? You can use a proportional amount in a tank of gas. If you have a nearly clogged injector, it may not give a code but make for a miss & bad power. Good luck getting back home and watch out for the stretch of I20 in Mississippi(I think it's between Meridian & Jackson), the west bound lanes are like saddle bronc riding for many miles. Just rode that stretch June 19th.

Ride safe

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post #18 of 66 Old Jul 7th, 2010, 4:25 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Update 2:

We are still here in north Ga. Decided to not let it ruin our stay until friday morning and start back then. I have now put over 250 miles on it and nothing has changed so I feel it will be ok for the long ride home. I did run 2 tanks of fuel almost through it and did add injector cleaner to the last tank. As long as I can keep the rpm over 3000 it runs smooth and accelerates normally. Biggest problem is starting from a full stop.

I also worried about doing damage from it running lean, but it is not running any hotter than normal for these temps. My gas mileage has not changed a bit either.

I'll let you know of further events.

Ron


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

IBA 45658 MOA167437

2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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post #19 of 66 Old Jul 7th, 2010, 4:39 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
Update 2:

We are still here in north Ga. Decided to not let it ruin our stay until friday morning and start back then. I have now put over 250 miles on it and nothing has changed so I feel it will be ok for the long ride home. I did run 2 tanks of fuel almost through it and did add injector cleaner to the last tank. As long as I can keep the rpm over 3000 it runs smooth and accelerates normally. Biggest problem is starting from a full stop.

I also worried about doing damage from it running lean, but it is not running any hotter than normal for these temps. My gas mileage has not changed a bit either.

I'll let you know of further events.

Ron
Ron, have you tried cleaning the spark plugs? Not much work to get to them...
I am wondering if one of them got some residue stuck between the electrodes, preventing smooth ignition at low rpm... In fact you may want to try unplugging the spark plug wires, one at a time while the bike is "idling" and see if one one them does NOT make a difference; it would be the culprit.

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post #20 of 66 Old Jul 9th, 2010, 8:44 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Update:
We just pulled back into Tyler. It was a rather tough 820 mile day pulling a trailer and riding 2 up with the engine problem....but we made it! I have been in contact with Robert Krull at Lone Star and he has me set up to be there Tuesday morning. I have a trailer and plan to trailer it to Austin.

I am too tired now to try anything, but in the morning I want to get a good look at the plugs and see what I find there. Being home with my tools gives me more opportunity to check things out. I do stock a set of plugs and will change them anyway.

There were no changes in behavior on the ride home......rode through a couple really hard downpours and nothing changed.

Everybody has been great with offers from all directions..Thanks to all!

Ron & Delores


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

IBA 45658 MOA167437

2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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post #21 of 66 Old Jul 10th, 2010, 5:27 am
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Glad you're home safe.

A thought: knowing I'm not as 'wrench-able' as you, myself would consider NOT changing a thing on the scoot in order that Mike sees it in 'as-is condition'. Of course, if the plugs are fouled and you find they were the culprit, then you save a trip/cost to L. S. --- the cost part is buying me lunch!! .

Good luck either way.
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post #22 of 66 Old Jul 10th, 2010, 5:35 am
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

O2 sensor going bad? Got the symptoms for it ... would cause the plugs to foul too. Just saying.....
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post #23 of 66 Old Jul 10th, 2010, 7:48 am Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Dick,

I am pretty sure the plugs will not fix it....so yes lunch will be on me if you can get there. I plan on arriving by 8 am. It will be great to get a chance to talk again.

Ron


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

IBA 45658 MOA167437

2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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post #24 of 66 Old Jul 10th, 2010, 9:02 am
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Ron I hope you get it squared away relatively easy.

I am betting spark plugs, spark plug wire, injector wire, or the rubber boots in the TB, or the breather hose. In that order.

Again I hope it is painless for you and Dick.

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post #25 of 66 Old Jul 10th, 2010, 9:14 am
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

I had a similar issue but it was at higer rpm's. I hand not seated a fuel injector connector correctly (they have a wire latch) and it would make contact OK until the rev's got about 3,000 and then it would run like crap. Drove all day like that up in the smokies. When I got back to the lodge I pulled some tupperware and tugged on the FI electricals and low and behold one came right off. Popped it back on and all was well. Worth a shot now that you are home.

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post #26 of 66 Old Jul 10th, 2010, 9:17 am
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
Dick,

I am pretty sure the plugs will not fix it....so yes lunch will be on me if you can get there. I plan on arriving by 8 am. It will be great to get a chance to talk again.

Ron
Cya there at 0800-ish. Think I'll prolly be in ole Thundera, since Toad is up on the lift for some pm, replacing the O2 sensor, and a valve check.

Least we won't be restricted to Chueys!!
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post #27 of 66 Old Jul 10th, 2010, 3:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

I changed out the plugs this morning , but they all looked good and that did not change anything. I replaced the O2 sensor about 16K ago and I don't get a fault, so I don't suspect it either. The way that the idle is jumping from about 950 RPM to about 1100 RPM sure appears to be electrical...it is rapid and erratic.

Hopefully Tuesday will tell what is going on.

See you there Dick!

Ron


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

IBA 45658 MOA167437

2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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post #28 of 66 Old Jul 10th, 2010, 8:48 pm
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Wink Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
I changed out the plugs this morning , but they all looked good and that did not change anything. I replaced the O2 sensor about 16K ago and I don't get a fault, so I don't suspect it either. The way that the idle is jumping from about 950 RPM to about 1100 RPM sure appears to be electrical...it is rapid and erratic.

Hopefully Tuesday will tell what is going on.

See you there Dick!

Ron
Ron, if your idle is hunting, that is symptomatic of a vacuum line loose or off. Might double check those hoses on the throttle bodies!

John

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post #29 of 66 Old Jul 10th, 2010, 10:04 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Reading all the posts my guess is . . . something rubber associated with the throttle bodies!!

Before - boots from the air box - not very likely!
After - boots to the engine - most likely!
Directly connected - rubber crank case manifold - even more likely!!

That's my 2 cents and I am sticking to it!!

Dan Finazzo
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post #30 of 66 Old Jul 13th, 2010, 8:40 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Had a morning full of great chatting and free coffee at Lone Star BMW, with Ron and Delores. Got to talk about the good time memories over the last 9 years or so that we've known each other. Ron (and Delores) have more LT miles of smiles, than me on ole Toad. They've broken the 200K threshold, using two LTs while ole Toad is just showing 128K! Anyway, we remembered a lot of those miles, and the many RTEs we used to share in the South Central region.

Back to topic - Ron got to Lone Star around 0830, and although they don't really open until 0930, the service department does open up for appointment holders, so he wuz inside to turn over the bike to them. I pulled up shortly after that, and we all descended on the coffee machine!! After a few hours, Mike Goff (lead tech) dropped by to say that he hadn't found the source of the problem yet, butt had eliminated many of the possibilities. Wuz getting ready to explore deeper, with an eye on possible injector behavior. Ron's GS911 had shown no faults when he used it in GA, and apparently no faults were showing up at Lone Star, which made tracing possible gremlin/culprits an orderly, but time consuming, process.

I headed back to Boerne around 2:00, without hearing if the problem had been found. I imagine Ron and Delores were either gonna stay the nite in Austin, if there wuz the later possibility that Mike found the gremlin and could get it fixed by Wednesday - otherwise, they may opt to go home while Mike continues wrenching, and then come back to Lone Star at a later date to pick up the bike. Since Ron doesn't carry a cell phone, I won't know anything until he posts to this thead, with a wrap up post.

And BTW - we did end up at Chuey's for lunch, and my wallet still has all the moths intact!!

Thanks guys - truly enjoyed the time with y'all. Look forward to doing it again in the near future, butt without any wrenching session!
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post #31 of 66 Old Jul 13th, 2010, 9:09 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

When was the fuel filter changed last? The last one I had do this same thing that was the problem.

Jim


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Had a morning full of great chatting and free coffee at Lone Star BMW, with Ron and Delores. Got to talk about the good time memories over the last 9 years or so that we've known each other. Ron (and Delores) have more LT miles of smiles, than me on ole Toad. They've broken the 200K threshold, using two LTs while ole Toad is just showing 128K! Anyway, we remembered a lot of those miles, and the many RTEs we used to share in the South Central region.

Back to topic - Ron got to Lone Star around 0830, and although they don't really open until 0930, the service department does open up for appointment holders, so he wuz inside to turn over the bike to them. I pulled up shortly after that, and we all descended on the coffee machine!! After a few hours, Mike Goff (lead tech) dropped by to say that he hadn't found the source of the problem yet, butt had eliminated many of the possibilities. Wuz getting ready to explore deeper, with an eye on possible injector behavior. Ron's GS911 had shown no faults when he used it in GA, and apparently no faults were showing up at Lone Star, which made tracing possible gremlin/culprits an orderly, but time consuming, process.

I headed back to Boerne around 2:00, without hearing if the problem had been found. I imagine Ron and Delores were either gonna stay the nite in Austin, if there wuz the later possibility that Mike found the gremlin and could get it fixed by Wednesday - otherwise, they may opt to go home while Mike continues wrenching, and then come back to Lone Star at a later date to pick up the bike. Since Ron doesn't carry a cell phone, I won't know anything until he posts to this thead, with a wrap up post.

And BTW - we did end up at Chuey's for lunch, and my wallet still has all the moths intact!!

Thanks guys - truly enjoyed the time with y'all. Look forward to doing it again in the near future, butt without any wrenching session!

Jim Davidson
2007 R1200RT
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post #32 of 66 Old Jul 13th, 2010, 9:55 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

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Originally Posted by hp1bmw
When was the fuel filter changed last? The last one I had do this same thing that was the problem.

Jim
Hi, Jim - pretty sure I heard Ron tell Mike that the fuel filter had about 6k on it since he changed it. And wuzn't too long ago.
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post #33 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 6:33 am Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Update:

About 6 Pm last night we got out of Lone Star and headed home. Mike had the engine running like a clock...smooth idle...sweet acceleration.

He was not sure which of the fixes made it work, but he had swapped out the coil, dumped the computer and reloaded it, and changed out a fuel filter. This was after he had already eliminated the TPS, plugs, and plug wires.

I got about 80 miles into the 250 mile ride home and it started doing it all again...just the same as before. Rough idle and bogging down just above an idle. I am totally confused on this one.

I will call back down to Austin this morning later and see what out options are now.

I just kept coming home since it was already late and the wife and I had been up since 3 AM yesterday morning.

It is a gut feeling that dumping the computer and reloading it did the temp fix. If that is the case, then what possible component can temporarily fix itself ?

More later,

Ron


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2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
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post #34 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 7:58 am
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
Update:

About 6 Pm last night we got out of Lone Star and headed home. Mike had the engine running like a clock...smooth idle...sweet acceleration.

He was not sure which of the fixes made it work, but he had swapped out the coil, dumped the computer and reloaded it, and changed out a fuel filter. This was after he had already eliminated the TPS, plugs, and plug wires.

I got about 80 miles into the 250 mile ride home and it started doing it all again...just the same as before. Rough idle and bogging down just above an idle. I am totally confused on this one.

I will call back down to Austin this morning later and see what out options are now.

I just kept coming home since it was already late and the wife and I had been up since 3 AM yesterday morning.

It is a gut feeling that dumping the computer and reloading it did the temp fix. If that is the case, then what possible component can temporarily fix itself ?

More later,

Ron
Even though it hs not giving a fault and you replaced it not long ago, I would suspect the O2 sensor. I am more familiar with auto systems than I am with motorcycles, but most auto systems tune themselves over time to the inputs they receive from the various sensors. In particular, there is generally a parameter called "fuel trim" that is adjusted based on the O2 sensor. I am not sure, but I suspect the LT ECM does this also.

I am not sure what "dumping the computer" means, but I assume it means reseting all of these internally adjustable parameters. If that is the case, then the fuel trim would be reset to its default value which is generally good enough for decent operation, just not optimal operation. If the O2 is giving a value that is not accurate (but not bonkers enough to raise a fault), then the computer could be driving the trim to an extreme value that would cause poor operation. Many of my cars have had a range of 0 to 255 (8 bit register) with a default of 128. This value is then adjusted during operation. If it gets driven to 0 or 255, a fault is generally raised, but I believe that most vehicles can get pretty close to the extreme rich or lean trim value without raising a fault.

The fact that you ran well for a while and then degraded, suggests it is something that is being adjusted by the computer over time. This includes the O2 sensor and I believe also the TPS and possibly other sensors. I am out of town and don't have my documentation handy, but I don't recall the LT have mass air flow and other sensors common on cars, but I could be wrong. These can also provide inaccurate readings and drive the computer to places it shouldn't be.

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post #35 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 9:22 am
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
Update:



I got about 80 miles into the 250 mile ride home and it started doing it all again...just the same as before.






Ron
Well poo! Sorry to hear that the troubles are still there. Hope it turns out OK for you.

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post #36 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 9:36 am Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Matt,

All that makes perfect sense...thank you. I went out and hooked the GS911 up and did a real time readout on the O2 sensor. The video at the link below is what I came up with. Do you think that the excursions over the upper line could be enough to cause this?

http://www.streetfire.net/video/o2-readout_2037582.htm

Thanks,

Ron


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2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
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post #37 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 10:28 am
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
Matt,

All that makes perfect sense...thank you. I went out and hooked the GS911 up and did a real time readout on the O2 sensor. The video at the link below is what I came up with. Do you think that the excursions over the upper line could be enough to cause this?

http://www.streetfire.net/video/o2-readout_2037582.htm

Thanks,

Ron
I really could not see the numbers only a sawtooth pattern on the screen. What are the range of the excusions? What do the upper and lower lines indicate? Are these nominal value limits? Was this taken at idle?

I really don't have much experience with the LT, but if this is a pattern at idle then these excursions would cause me concern. Either the sensor is flakey and the excursions aren't real or they are real and you are seeing substantial mixture variations at idle which suggests either variation in fuel delivery (fuel pressure/flow, injector problem, etc.) or variation in air delivery (vacuum leak generally).

I am not sure of the response rate of the O2 sensor used by BMW, but if you can find that this helps assess if the sensor is flakey. If the excursions you see are changing at a rate faster than the response rate of a good O2 sensor, then this is a strong hint that the sensor is bad. I don't have the data to make this assessment.

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post #38 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 10:36 am Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

After a little more research of the GS911 manual it appears that these are within normal limits...200 mv to 650 -700 mv. This was taken at an idle at normal operating temp. Here is a link to the manual:

http://www.hexcode.co.za/products/gs...et_language=de

Sample graphs are at the bottom of the page


Thanks again,

Ron


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

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2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
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post #39 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 11:00 am Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Dick,

You sure made a long day go by quickly. We enjoyed the chat so much.

Do you know anyone wanting to buy a slightly rough running LTE..... LOL

I am beginning to wonder if it can be fixed.....perhaps I am just a little tired of the process. Yesterday was a long day leaving here at 3:30 AM and getting back home at 11 PM.

Mike had me wipe out the computer to see if it would temporarily make it run properly again. I tried this 3 times and it had no effect at all.

I just got off the phone with him and he is going to send me a coil to swap out and see if that does anything. He had changed it out but put the old one back on before I left.

More updates to come later,

Ron


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

IBA 45658 MOA167437

2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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post #40 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 12:14 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
Dick,

You sure made a long day go by quickly. We enjoyed the chat so much.

Do you know anyone wanting to buy a slightly rough running LTE..... LOL

I am beginning to wonder if it can be fixed.....perhaps I am just a little tired of the process. Yesterday was a long day leaving here at 3:30 AM and getting back home at 11 PM.

Mike had me wipe out the computer to see if it would temporarily make it run properly again. I tried this 3 times and it had no effect at all.

I just got off the phone with him and he is going to send me a coil to swap out and see if that does anything. He had changed it out but put the old one back on before I left.

More updates to come later,

Ron
Not trying to be a smart-alec or nothing.......http://www.bmwlt.com/classifieds/sho...ct/2310/cat/14 Hope this turns out ok!

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post #41 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 12:16 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Kinsey
Not trying to be a smart-alec or nothing.......http://www.bmwlt.com/classifieds/sho...ct/2310/cat/14 Hope this turns out ok!
Yeaaaahhhh.. that would fix it!

...............
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post #42 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 1:01 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
After a little more research of the GS911 manual it appears that these are within normal limits...200 mv to 650 -700 mv. This was taken at an idle at normal operating temp. Here is a link to the manual:

http://www.hexcode.co.za/products/gs...et_language=de

Sample graphs are at the bottom of the page


Thanks again,

Ron
Yes, it appears to be working fine, but I would still check the average reading. I assume the GS911 provides that. Here is a little more information:

http://www.picoauto.com/applications/lambda-sensor.html

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post #43 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 1:13 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
And BTW - we did end up at Chuey's for lunch, and my wallet still has all the moths intact!!
Dick, ya say that like it's a bad thing. Chuy's was good enough for Elvis and who else has a fish wearing sunglasses out front?

Ron, is it possible there's enough sediment in the tank to foul yet another fuel filter? If the other fixes Mike did don't get you there. I would suggest flushing the tank out thoroughly and then putting in a clean filter. Sorry it's causing you such a problem.

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post #44 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 2:58 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellenbenz
It is a gut feeling that dumping the computer and reloading it did the temp fix. If that is the case, then what possible component can temporarily fix itself ?

More later,

Ron
There is not any way to "dump and reload" the computer on the LT. You can do a TPS reset, clearing the small amount of memory used as a place to store some small modifications to the fuel injection map based upon "learning" from the O2 sensor output, throttle position sensor and temperature sensor. While the fuel injection mapping is hard coded into the LT firmware (can only be changed by swapping a ROM chip), there is some "fuzzy logic" allowing the Motronic to slightly alter the fuel mapping.

I also would suspect the O2 sensor is a possibility, assuming it was a TPS reset that cleared the problem.

The TPS reset procedure is in the HoW. The only thing I would add to the procedure in the HoW is to disconnect the positive terminal from the battery for about about 30 seconds, touch the positive connector (not the positive battery terminal!) to ground, with the ignition on, to make sure any capacitive storage in the Motronic is discharged. Perform the TPS reset immediately after reconnecting the battery, before starting the engine.

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post #45 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 3:00 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Kinsey
Not trying to be a smart-alec or nothing.......http://www.bmwlt.com/classifieds/sho...ct/2310/cat/14 Hope this turns out ok!
Yes, but this would make it much faster

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post #46 of 66 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 9:07 pm
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

What thing when subjected to heat fails? Motogizmo eprom?

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post #47 of 66 Old Jul 15th, 2010, 7:03 am Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
There is not any way to "dump and reload" the computer on the LT. You can do a TPS reset, clearing the small amount of memory used as a place to store some small modifications to the fuel injection map based upon "learning" from the O2 sensor output, throttle position sensor and temperature sensor. While the fuel injection mapping is hard coded into the LT firmware (can only be changed by swapping a ROM chip), there is some "fuzzy logic" allowing the Motronic to slightly alter the fuel mapping.

I also would suspect the O2 sensor is a possibility, assuming it was a TPS reset that cleared the problem.

The TPS reset procedure is in the HoW. The only thing I would add to the procedure in the HoW is to disconnect the positive terminal from the battery for about about 30 seconds, touch the positive connector (not the positive battery terminal!) to ground, with the ignition on, to make sure any capacitive storage in the Motronic is discharged. Perform the TPS reset immediately after reconnecting the battery, before starting the engine.
Randy,

The procedure that the dealer had me do was to disconnect the negative battery wire and then , using a jumper wire, touch the negative battery wire to the positive post on the battery.

Ron


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2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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post #48 of 66 Old Jul 15th, 2010, 10:28 am
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Quote:
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Randy,

The procedure that the dealer had me do was to disconnect the negative battery wire and then , using a jumper wire, touch the negative battery wire to the positive post on the battery.

Ron
It is the same end result. It is safer to disconnect the negative terminal because it eliminates the chance of a tool touching the frame or other metal part at ground potential. I just have old and bad habits

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post #49 of 66 Old Jul 15th, 2010, 4:59 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

Afternoon update:

The coil arrived about 3 hours ago. I already had the bike stripped down and was ready for the swap. Sorry to say, it made no difference. I put my original coil back on and closed it up for the trip back to Austin in the morning early.

Stay tuned!

Things we have eliminated:

Bad fuel and filter
plugs
plug wires
TPS sensor
plugged canister
Coil
vacuum lines on the throttle body
O2 sensor

The brown wire is cut ( has been since I got the bike )

Randy mentioned the air box temp sensor briefly....I plan to ask about that at the dealer. I thought about unplugging it but didn't want to mess up the sequence we have going.

Later,

Ron


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

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2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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post #50 of 66 Old Jul 21st, 2010, 5:15 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I've got problems and am on the road

I am guessing that a lot of you are wondering what the outcome was with my mechanical problem.

Those great folks at Lone Star BMW have it fixed and ready to go. It was nothing more than a breaking down plug wire. That explains why it ran for a while then started acting up again. The tech had been at the wires checking and had relocated them enough to do away with the problem temporarily.

I have to give the highest Kudos to Lone Star for taking the time to find the real problem without just changing parts until it was fixed. These guys all ride themselves and treat the customers like they would like to be treated.

Everyone at the dealership is first class....from the owners down to the porter...and especially Mike Geoff the Chief Tech.

I still have a problem though......I start working 7 -12 hour shifts in the morning and don't get to pick it up until next Thursday. At least I have peace of mind knowing that I can make the Fairfield RTE on the 31st.

Thanks to all on the forum for your generous offers and support!

Ron & Delores


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

IBA 45658 MOA167437

2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
1988 GL1500 rode 12067 miles (bought with 19893 totaled 31960)
1989 GL1500 rode 142208 miles (bought with 20302 sold 162510)
Goldwing miles 238,383
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