A tale of of two gear box's - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 13 Old Jun 26th, 2010, 7:59 pm Thread Starter
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Red face A tale of of two gear box's

Well , I don't know if it is me , or luck of the draw , or ??? But this year I have had the gear box's in two BMW's go out . My '02 K1200LT , & my '95 R1100GS . My LT's clutch started slipping a little , a few miles before I got the dealer to take a 2010 R1200GS Adventure for a test ride . I had put a new clutch & a bunch of stuff in it last year , & had drilled the slave cylinder & the bell housing . Well it was leaking gear oil out the bell housing , but I thought it would make the ride home...Not ... It did make it half way , & all was fine . Then it went into total slip . I nursed it off the expressway in first gear , but it would slip real bad if you gave it any gas . It was a long day before I got it home . It was a good thing I had a fiend riding along that baled me out .

Anyway , at the time I had my R1100GS on my lift ,& was in the middle of replacing the rear main crankshaft seal on it ( third try ) ....Well ...Turns out , as I was doing the crank shaft seal ...I found the crank seal was OK , but the input shaft seal on the gear box was leaking . I thought with the leaking input shaft seal , I should take the spring & boot off the back of the gear box & have a look at that seal too . I then found with the spring off you could move the input shake 1.5 MM . The GS had 59,000 miles on it , and the gear box had the original tapered roller bearings on the input shaft . BMW has changed to a new " clean bearing ", & to put them in you need to re-shim the input shaft . So I took the gear box over to the dealer , & had them do it . They put the input shaft bearings in, re-shimmed it , and also put one bearing on the output shaft + 3 seals . On a side note , my wife thought I needed a new GS , so after I got the '95 put back together I traded it in on the 2010 R1200GS Adventure .

Well , My LT only has around 40,000 miles on it ... But I found as I drained the gear oil out of it as I was tearing the bike down . it had what looked like a bearing retainer & one of the two split washers off the input shaft stuck on the drain plug magnet . It looks like the input shaft is shot on it too , I can moved around probable 1.5 - 2 MM . Also the clutch rod /clutch cover clutch disk , pressure plate , & Diaphram spring were chewed up . I got a used gear box to put back it , but I am going to see if I can't take the gear box a part to have a look see.

Anyway , back to were I started , was it me , or ??? . I am not trying to start an oil thread , but I was using Royal Purple 75W90 gear oil in both gear boxes , could that have been part of the problem ??? Maybe it was just a little too thin ??? Maybe it had nothing to do with it . What do you think ..Thanks

Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #2 of 13 Old Jun 28th, 2010, 7:17 am
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

Did bearings seize or spin the races in either of the gear boxes? If yes then it could possibly be lube related but I Seriously doubt it is a lube or lack there of issue. Be interesting to see what you find if you tear the LT box apart.

Roy

Roy Gregersen

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post #3 of 13 Old Jun 28th, 2010, 11:39 am
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

Sounds like it just might be you...
There are riders that are aggressive enough to induce these types of failures.
These types of failures are not unheard of in bikes that are ridden aggressively..

Sounds like you may be getting more out of your bikes than some folks.

Do you ride in a more "spirited" fashion than most ? Do you miss a lot of shifts ?

You're the only one who can answer these questions. I'm really just kidding you....

I would think that if you're riding hard enough to tear the transmission up, You'd be experiencing some other failures as well....

And on top of all that BMW's quality control isn't what it used to be...AKA clutch and seal failures..

I went thru several transmissions and clutches on my 66 Mustang when I was 17.... But I have to admit I drove the piss out of that car...Speed shifting and whatever I could get away with..

Don't feel bad, Just mark it up to enjoyment...Besides that, You've got a 2010 now and they're lots and lots of stuff to go wrong on that...

I also think that if I had two transmissions tear up on the same oil, I'd switch oils while I was at it...

John

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post #4 of 13 Old Jun 30th, 2010, 10:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

Well , I do tend to back shift , use a some compression braking ??? But all in all I tend short shift maybe 3500 RPM , or some times taking a little time getting it up to 4 -4500 RPM before I up shift . There are times I have run it up to 6000 or so . But , Dragging the Hannigan sidecar along , I usually don't push it too much .Then Again , who knows ??

Any way , If I can figure how to use my camera I will try to post a few pictures . The front input bearing #2 still had the balls in it , but it had eaten all the way thru the inter race . It ate into the stop on the input shaft #1 that the front bearing sets at . The front bearing outer race also look like it had spun in the front cover , & maybe some on the front cover got welded to the outer race . Part # 3 ate into the front cover a little , & also something ate about 1/4 " off the front of #3 . The two Securing element's were toast , #11 one had a bit in it , the other one was all eaten but a little bit piece of it .

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...7&rnd=03192010
got to Transmission , then - TRANSMISSION DRIVE SHAFT

Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #5 of 13 Old Jul 1st, 2010, 3:29 pm
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

Patric

I also had th input bearing on my gearbox go shortly after replacing the clutch. I do wonder if I maybe hung the gearbox on the engine spline and this caused a side loading on the bearing which caused it to fail. Not being an engineer it is only a thought but maybe I feel better blaming myself rather than branding my lovely bike a pile of cr*p :-/

Regards

Graham Wintersgill
On the bonnnie bonnie banks of Loch Lomond

2001 K1200LT

1995 K75RT now deceased
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post #6 of 13 Old Jul 1st, 2010, 6:33 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

Quote:

I also had th input bearing on my gearbox go shortly after replacing the clutch. I do wonder if I maybe hung the gearbox on the engine spline and this caused a side loading on the bearing which caused it to fail. Not being an engineer it is only a thought but maybe I feel better blaming myself rather than branding my lovely bike a pile of cr*p :-/

I Don't know , it is possible , I did used the official BMW line up pins to guide the gear box on . also , I made a line up tool to get the new clutch in the very center ... I wonder if the bearing was starting to go bad , and caused the input shaft seal to leak . So we fix the symptom , but not the problem .

Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #7 of 13 Old Jul 1st, 2010, 6:50 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

Here is my bike out in the shead on the lift , Sidecar on a big roller skate I had made so I can take it off & put it on with out worrying about dropping either the bike or sidecar , And a shelf I made to put parts of my bike when I am working on it .
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Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #8 of 13 Old Jul 1st, 2010, 7:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

Gear box input shaft - you can see were it ate thru the inter race & started eating the stop the bearing set at , Also you can see were it ate a bit of the drive gear off .

The two Securing element's, or what is left of them ... , Clutch rod .. it was ate a bit by the input shaft + were the Diaphram spring sets is mashed up . And the clutch cover , you can see the were in it + there are some small cracks in it
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Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #9 of 13 Old Jul 1st, 2010, 7:17 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

the pressure plate , you can see how it turned blue from the heat , the out side and in side of the gear box cover - inside you can see were the gear ate the cover + where the bearing spun - out side looks like it has something going on ...like a rash + some crack looking spots
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Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #10 of 13 Old Jul 18th, 2010, 3:34 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

Up-date , ...it's alive ... I got a used gear box , used clutch cover ,used Diaphram spring , New clutch disk , & new pressure plate from E-Bay . I also got a new slave cylinder from Beemerboney Yard for my k1200LT . I finished putting it back together this last friday . We put a little over 100 miles on it yesterday , it seems to be as good as new .......( I hope )...

Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #11 of 13 Old Jul 18th, 2010, 10:13 pm
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

I see the problem...

That "man cave" sabotaged the bikes so you would work on it in there... and put it to good use.

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #12 of 13 Old Jul 18th, 2010, 10:59 pm
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

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Originally Posted by cfell
I see the problem...

That "man cave" sabotaged the bikes so you would work on it in there... and put it to good use.
No kidding. You have a darn nice place to work Patric.

BMW 1200 LTC 2002


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post #13 of 13 Old Jul 19th, 2010, 11:46 am Thread Starter
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Re: A tale of of two gear box's

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You have a darn nice place to work Patric
Thanks , we had Morton Building http://www.mortonbuildings.com/ put it up a few years ago . We wanted to keep our motormome inside , so after checking around with a few local builders we decided with Morton . It's 42' X 60' with a 14' sidewall , & I had them put 10 skylights in the roof . I don't have any eletric lights out there , but I keep trying to find the switch to turn them off when I go out the door .

Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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