No front brakes - weird... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 Old May 28th, 2010, 5:35 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chemainus, BC, Canada
Posts: 8
Question No front brakes - weird...

Bike parked, brakes are a bit spongy, but work, roll 1/2 bike length, no front brakes at all!
Blead the front brakes, blead the ABS unit, no change.
Rebuilt the master cyl. No change.
Bike parked, got brakes, disconnected battery ground, got brakes, roll back length of bike, absolulty no brakes at all in front.
Leave bike for an hour, got brakes, roll a bit, zero brakes.
Disconnecting the battery was to eliminate the potential that the ABS was doing something, so ABS eliminated as suspect, BUT with battery disconnected there is no electronic connection between the rotation of the wheel, and the brake system, there is no physical connection to the brake system, the pads are new and not dragging.
I have worked on bikes and cars for decades and seldom have a problem figuring out what is going on, but this one has me stumped.
K1200LT January 2000, ABS II
And i was all set to spend the weekend on my bike!!!
ClaytonB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old May 28th, 2010, 7:27 pm
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,273
Re: No front brakes - weird...

This is strange. Be aware there is only about two teaspoons of fluid in the ABS unit (it has a very small active chamber despite its size). So I would not suspect it.

I would however suspect the front hoses. They may be deteriorating on the inside and during that rolling movement the flex causes it to clog up at the weak point. Then as it sits the area relaxes and allows some fluid flow. Given it is a 2000 I would seriously look at replacing all the rubber hoses in the brake system.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old May 29th, 2010, 12:54 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chemainus, BC, Canada
Posts: 8
Re: No front brakes - weird...

In the morning i will put it up so i can rotate wheels while the bike is not moving.... if no loss of braking, then time for new hoses... braded SS perhaps...
When i blead the ABS, i got a tablespoon of dark fluid, then some nice clear stuff, but no air.
Thanks for the idea.. I will report back tomorrow. Had the bike since last Christmas and not had it on the road, one problem after another, thought i had it done!!
ClaytonB is offline  
 
post #4 of 19 Old May 29th, 2010, 12:57 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chemainus, BC, Canada
Posts: 8
Re: No front brakes - weird...

One thought.. if the hoses are cloging up, that would make it hard to apply the brakes; in this case there is no brake at all, lever goes right to the grip, and the bike keeps rolling. I will test the theory anyway.
Thanks
ClaytonB is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old May 29th, 2010, 1:27 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chemainus, BC, Canada
Posts: 8
Re: No front brakes - weird...

Given your suggestion and reading "Brake hose failure registry?" thread, i think it is prudent to just replace ALL the hoses before I hit the highway.
I will still report back here tomorrow on what i find....
ClaytonB is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old May 29th, 2010, 5:57 pm
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,273
Re: No front brakes - weird...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonB
One thought.. if the hoses are cloging up, that would make it hard to apply the brakes; in this case there is no brake at all, lever goes right to the grip, and the bike keeps rolling. I will test the theory anyway.
Thanks
If the lever is going to the grip and you are not squirting brake fluid anywhere I would suspect the master cylinder is shot.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old May 31st, 2010, 3:57 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chemainus, BC, Canada
Posts: 8
Question Re: No front brakes - weird...

Continued....
I put the bike on the centre stand, jacked it up so I can rotate the front wheel, tried the front brake - spongy, but working. Rotated front wheel, lever goes to the grip, zero brake. One pump and i have brake.
Got my neighbour to help. He tried the brake, ok, 1/4 rotation, some loss, 1/2 rotation more loss, 3/4 rotation, lever to the grip. Let it go, got brakes.
This is not only weird, but as far as i can see, it is impossible.
I will order a set of ss lines Tues, put them in when they come, and see if there is a difference. Hopefully Spiegler ships to Canada.
Any comments???
Anyone want to see a video of this?
ClaytonB is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old May 31st, 2010, 6:24 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chemainus, BC, Canada
Posts: 8
Re: No front brakes - weird...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
If the lever is going to the grip and you are not squirting brake fluid anywhere I would suspect the master cylinder is shot.
Cant find any leaks anywhere, and bf not going down. Master Cyl was my first thought, rebuilt it at the start.... made no difference.
ClaytonB is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old May 31st, 2010, 7:10 pm
Senior Member
 
Axle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: portland, victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,485
Garage
Re: No front brakes - weird...

do you have the 2 resivours under the seat.? I missed the back one when I bled the brakes it feeds the front brakes got air in the system, that threw me for a while it is so easy to miss.

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
1976 Datsun 260Z
1989 Nissan 300zx TT
Axle is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old May 31st, 2010, 7:11 pm
Member
 
weekendrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scotia, NY, United States
Posts: 39
Re: No front brakes - weird...

Sounds like you have warped or improperly seated rotor. When the wheel rotates, the rotor is moving side to side and pushing the pistons back in the calipers.

Bob
weekendrider is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old Jun 1st, 2010, 12:42 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chemainus, BC, Canada
Posts: 8
Re: No front brakes - weird...

The bike does not have dual reservoir under the seat, only one.
The idea of a warped or out of line rotor is worth investigating... thanks.
Brakes are still spongey even with a full bleed, so I will put new flex lines on anyway, but check out alignment of rotor asap.
ClaytonB is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old Jun 1st, 2010, 2:09 am
Senior Member
 
Axle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: portland, victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,485
Garage
Re: No front brakes - weird...

well I will watch this thread with interest

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
1976 Datsun 260Z
1989 Nissan 300zx TT
Axle is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old Jun 1st, 2010, 3:48 pm
Wrencher Extraordinaire
 
jzeiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hazel Green, AL, USA
Posts: 13,273
Re: No front brakes - weird...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonB
Cant find any leaks anywhere, and bf not going down. Master Cyl was my first thought, rebuilt it at the start.... made no difference.
If you are going to replace the lines anyway why not prove out the MC is good by pinching off the line and giving it a squeeze, just to see if it is bypassing.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jzeiler is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old Jun 1st, 2010, 4:47 pm
Senior Member
 
hmmmm90s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: jefferson, MD, USA
Posts: 261
Re: No front brakes - weird...

Check your master cyl fluid level - I had similar symptoms and the OEM line had ruptured INTERNALLY - most likely location is at or near the junction block up inside the fairing nose where there is a lot of flexing going on --

it only took a littl bit of troubleshooting to realize the fluid was going from the inner line into the outer jacket of the oem line -- once i'd pumped enough fluid in there IT ruptured too and then it was easy to see what was going on. =8-o

g.

***
greg shamieh boof # 93 k-whiner # 83
jefferson, maryland

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2000 K1200LT --- "darkside"
75R90S -- "esssss"
73R75/5 -- "mojo"
hmmmm90s is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old Jun 1st, 2010, 4:57 pm
Senior Member
 
JPSpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jones, OK, USA
Posts: 3,525
Re: No front brakes - weird...

When my rear master cylinder line failed. I didn't see any brake fluid at all....

The line was just blowing up like a baloon... The fluid would return and not leak out..

There's not much fluid movement for just one pump of the handle.

Changed out that line and it was solid as a rock again..

Good Luck,

John

Live and direct from the new earthquake capitol of the U.S. Jones, Oklahoma
08 Can-Am Spyder (Miss Lindy's)
03 R1200CLC Capri Blue "Flipper"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01 R1100RT Glacier Blue "Lucky"
91 R100GS "It'sNotAMoneyPit"
The voices in my head may not be real, But they have some good ideas!


"I like the wind in my face and Boobies on my back. No, Wait, I got that backwards"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JPSpen is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old Jun 1st, 2010, 8:00 pm
Senior Member
 
GlennM86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Posts: 605
Re: No front brakes - weird...

I am the simple minded member of this forum, but here goes.

Did you just start your bike and this all happened? or did you drive it the required distance/speed for the LT to complete it's self test?

I ask only because when I take my LT off of the center stand the brakes act just like you describe. My brake light is still flashing on the dash because I have not reached speeds of 2-3 mph to complete the self test.

Again, I ask only because I did not see any comments that you had ridden it, only that you had gone 1/2 bike length.

Good luck. I will be following this thread becuase all of the proposed solutions make for a great knowledge base.

Glenn
Virginia Beach VA and Washington DC

2006 K1200LT "Phoenix Helena": Dark Graphite (#946)
2005 K1200LT "Dolly": Dark Graphite (#946) - Totaled July 2011
2002 K1200LT "Helga"-totaled Apr 2009
Iron Butt Membership # 45813


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

<By Motorcycle>


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

<By Car or Ship>
GlennM86 is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 12:27 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chemainus, BC, Canada
Posts: 8
Smile Re: No front brakes - weird...

Mystery solved, and the prize goes to "weekendrider" for suggesting a warped rotor.
I put a dial gauge on the fork and measured the run-out of the rotor at each of the attachment points, and found a .032 difference in one section. I shimmed the rotor enough to get +- .005 and the problem dissapeared. That little difference was pushing the pad .032" into the caliper and that was enough that the master cyl could not push enough fluid volume to push the pad back to the rotor.
This weekend I will use some ss shim stock to get it +- .002" or closer and there should be no problem.
The suggestion of the "ballooning" of the rubber hoses is something i considered (thanks hmmmm90s) and high on my priority list is new SS lines; the back was replaced before i got the bike, the the two front and the handlebar hoses are the original and 10 years old... they get replaced asap!
If this rain ever stops I will finally be back on the highway
Thanks everyone from the cute little seaside village of Chemainus.
ClaytonB is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 7:36 am
Senior Member
 
Axle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: portland, victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,485
Garage
Re: No front brakes - weird...

Well done
I must admit I had a bit of a chuckle at that one and I would NEVER have thought of it

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
1976 Datsun 260Z
1989 Nissan 300zx TT
Axle is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 6:17 pm
Member
 
weekendrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scotia, NY, United States
Posts: 39
Re: No front brakes - weird...

Glad I could help, I've taken a ton of info from this board, feels good to give some back.

That problem is very common on Harley's with floating rotors. The rotors would warp if you looked at them wrong when taking wheels on and off.

Bob
weekendrider is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Front wheel removal eibacher K1200LT 20 Dec 13th, 2012 10:56 pm
Bleeding brakes K1200LT Caveno K1200LT 7 May 5th, 2008 3:40 pm
02 Front Brakes Grabbing / Pulsing vipergman2 K1200LT 6 Aug 16th, 2006 7:30 pm
Front Brakes BMWeasyrider K1200LT 9 Apr 26th, 2006 10:58 am
Rear brake squeal linked to front brakes? Vince_nj1 K1200LT 19 Apr 2nd, 2006 11:37 am

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome