Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 25 Old Jan 21st, 2010, 11:08 pm Thread Starter
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Unhappy Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Disappointed to say the least, unless there's a quick and inexpensive fix to this issue?

I came home yesterday afternoon thinking that I was going to take my bike out for a short afternoon ride when I noticed a few drops of oil under my "01" LT, at only 63,000+ miles...barely broken in...so I thought!

After further investigating the oil leak I decided to clean as much of the oil of with some engine cleaner and let it sit over night. The next day I took another look underneath and found a drop or two of oil, but it looked like it was residual from after spraying solvent.
Anyhow, I wiped down the engine a third time to make sure all the oil was cleaned off then decided to run the engine in neutral until it warmed up, I did not take the bike out for a spin. After about 15 minutes at idle I peaked around the engine and noticed that the mating ends at the Intermediate Flange, the gasket ends, appear to be bubbling and leaking...see pic attached.

The leak must have started recently because the oil level is just slightly below the red mark at the top of the oil sight glass, almost full.

Any ideas and/or suggestions? If this is major mechanical work that involves splitting the case and/or dropping the engine to get it fixed then I don't think I will want to take on the challenge.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Jose
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Jose Gonzalez
2001 K1200LT
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post #2 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 5:54 am
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

With 99.9 % certainty the rear main o ring seal has failed.
I have BTDT way to many times. Time for a new clutch and seals with the trans and rear main.

Pete Murray
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post #3 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 7:41 am
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

See if I get "hit" for this. If you are using synthetic oil, you may want to go back to regular oil. The regular oil has different properties in it that will swell the seals a little. Other than that, I agree with Murray that it is the rear main seal. Been there, done that!

Mike Trevelino
Williamsburg, VA
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post #4 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 10:37 am
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

The good news: I won't turn this into an oil debate...

The bad news: It's more than likely the Rear Main Seal. I had leakage in the same area; subtle at first, and I hoped that I had just left something loose after an oil change. Not that lucky (and there are few that are, with leakage in this area).

Just did my clutch/rear main seal last weekend. Click Here to get an idea what is in store. Don't worry, it looks a lot harder than it really is. I did have help though!

You can get a lot of questions answered here in the forum, and search for information too.

Or, dig out the wallet, and have the dealer do it for you.

If you have not ridden the bike since you saw the leak DO NOT RIDE IT. If you ride it, the clutch will be toast. If you DO NOT ride it, there is a small chance that you can save the clutch (and several hundred additional dollars). I hate to bear bad news, but your clutch is most likely gone as well.

Brian
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post #5 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 11:05 am
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Hey..I have one of those O-rings...but, it is about a 20 hour job to get it installed! That really bites. Have you experienced any slipping of the clutch yet?

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
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post #6 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 11:40 am
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Unhappy Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
With 99.9 % certainty the rear main o ring seal has failed.
I have BTDT way to many times. Time for a new clutch and seals with the trans and rear main.
Just had this all done on my 02 at 77K.
Bad news - $1950.00 dealer cost.
Good news - comes with 2 yr warranty.

Doug Holck
Lodi, Ca

I don't always ride motorcycles,
but when I do I prefer BMW's.
Ride safely my friends

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post #7 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 12:47 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

BTW, my rear main on my '01 failed at 42K. I have heard that the new rear main is "improved". It did look different than the OEM.

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #8 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 1:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions!

To answer some of the questions, no I'm not running synthetic oil...never have.

As far as the failure, I feared the worse just to prepare for the cost of repairs. Having said that, I have not ridden the bike since I discovered the oil leak. When I last rode the clutch operated fine, no slipping or problems shifting.

Brian, I would bet that you're correct about the clutch, it's probably damaged or about to be if driven as is any longer.

I think that I will do as Doug did and go ahead and pay to have the work done. By the way Doug, did the cost for the repair included a new clutch?

Personally, I enjoy doing all the maintenance on this bike, valves, 12k maintenance, etc., but I'm not certain that I want to get that deep into this bike's engine. The sound of a two year warranty would be a great incentive if I needed to sell it within the next two years; the final drive was changed a few months and it's still under warranty.

Thanks again,

Jose

Jose Gonzalez
2001 K1200LT
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post #9 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 6:20 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

my 01 rear main has been "seeping" for a little over a year and 8K miles. The bike has 68K miles on it. It isn't enough for me to want to get fixed and spend 2000 dollars. I do use synthetic and I usually change the oil\filter between 8000 and 10000 miles. No oil use noted between changes.


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post #10 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 7:21 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

IIRC- you will be looking at north of $3K for the stealer to do the Rear Main and the Clutch. I R&R my clutch and GB about 6mo. ago and "assisted" Brian on his project. Parts for the same job will run somewhere around a grand. If you source them correctly. Having done it twice now, I'd say have some intestinal fortitude and dive in, if you are so inclined, not that big of a project, but it is a scary one...


Quote:
Originally Posted by cjgonzo1
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions!

To answer some of the questions, no I'm not running synthetic oil...never have.

As far as the failure, I feared the worse just to prepare for the cost of repairs. Having said that, I have not ridden the bike since I discovered the oil leak. When I last rode the clutch operated fine, no slipping or problems shifting.

Brian, I would bet that you're correct about the clutch, it's probably damaged or about to be if driven as is any longer.

I think that I will do as Doug did and go ahead and pay to have the work done. By the way Doug, did the cost for the repair included a new clutch?

Personally, I enjoy doing all the maintenance on this bike, valves, 12k maintenance, etc., but I'm not certain that I want to get that deep into this bike's engine. The sound of a two year warranty would be a great incentive if I needed to sell it within the next two years; the final drive was changed a few months and it's still under warranty.

Thanks again,

Jose

Hoss
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post #11 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 9:06 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoswell
IIRC- you will be looking at north of $3K for the stealer to do the Rear Main and the Clutch. I R&R my clutch and GB about 6mo. ago and "assisted" Brian on his project. Parts for the same job will run somewhere around a grand. If you source them correctly. Having done it twice now, I'd say have some intestinal fortitude and dive in, if you are so inclined, not that big of a project, but it is a scary one...
I got two quotes for this work and it hovers around $2K. Still working on it and wish I'd have just paid the man.

Dan
2005 K1200LT - Ocean Blue

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post #12 of 25 Old Jan 22nd, 2010, 9:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
I got two quotes for this work and it hovers around $2K. Still working on it and wish I'd have just paid the man.
We've all heard the old saying...it's either "pay now and play later" or "play now and pay later." Most likely I will pay the piper now and hope to God that I can ride worry free for a couple of years until the anticipated 2012 LT is released...if that ever becomes reality?

Jose Gonzalez
2001 K1200LT
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post #13 of 25 Old Jan 23rd, 2010, 8:38 am
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Or, you could go trade it in and get a GT and the problem is eliminated entirely! This is exactly what I did...just couldn't handle the seemingly constant maintenance/repair issues and associated costs of an LT. Loved the bike...absolutely loved it...but it broke a LOT.

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
Too many others to list...


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post #14 of 25 Old Jan 24th, 2010, 3:13 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
I got two quotes for this work and it hovers around $2K. Still working on it and wish I'd have just paid the man.
Lets try this again....

It has to be said, simply because I can't resist the dig.......
Your stealer is better than mine!




My original post was deleted, I think I tend to piss off a certain moderator. He takes it personal when I berate his employer!!!!

That's the bad thing about the United States... We have that whole freedom of speech thing...Even A$$es like me get to voice their opinion!

What would Chesty do?

....But at least this time he did not delete other members post AND lock the post from further comments....Thank you pirate!

Hoss
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post #15 of 25 Old Jan 24th, 2010, 3:32 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

It's such a common issue with the LT's that it really is a shame BMW won't step up and help out with these repairs. In this case, the guy just had his rear drive replaced, and now here comes a complete tear down to replace the clutch and seals.
It just seems like BMW should help out when it's a known problem with the design.
Maybe Obama will pass a law or something.....

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post #16 of 25 Old Jan 24th, 2010, 6:44 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Which gets back to my question. The rear main that I just installed was quite different then the original on my '01.

Does anyone know if they have indeed been "improved"?

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #17 of 25 Old Jan 25th, 2010, 12:21 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Well the one I replaced on my 05 was exactly the same and it leaked a little so make your own assessment of "improved".

John
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post #18 of 25 Old Jan 25th, 2010, 12:29 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Hopefully I'll not be able to get back to you for some time on my "assessment"!

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
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post #19 of 25 Old Jan 25th, 2010, 1:27 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjgonzo1

I think that I will do as Doug did and go ahead and pay to have the work done. By the way Doug, did the cost for the repair included a new clutch?

Personally, I enjoy doing all the maintenance on this bike, valves, 12k maintenance, etc., but I'm not certain that I want to get that deep into this bike's engine. The sound of a two year warranty would be a great incentive if I needed to sell it within the next two years; the final drive was changed a few months and it's still under warranty.

Thanks again,

Jose

Yes it included a new clutch and slave cylinder and labor(The old one was not slipping and still looked OK but while it was open made sense to change).

Also included Oil change, rear main seal, shaft seal, trans output seal, clutch shaft seal and drilled slave cylinder weep hole.
Total labor $1442, parts $500. Very satisfied with price and A&S service as usual.

Final drive is still origional but have a low mileage spare on the shelf.

Now she is good as new, see you at CCR Killington.

Doug Holck
Lodi, Ca

I don't always ride motorcycles,
but when I do I prefer BMW's.
Ride safely my friends

3 Continents -10 Countries - 50 States

02 K1200LTe
04 1150GS Adventure
08 Suzuki DR650
CCR 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14
See you 2015 in Coeur d' Alene, Idaho

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post #20 of 25 Old Jan 25th, 2010, 1:48 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougholck
Yes it included a new clutch and slave cylinder and labor(The old one was not slipping and still looked OK but while it was open made sense to change).

Also included Oil change, rear main seal, shaft seal, trans output seal, clutch shaft seal and drilled slave cylinder weep hole.
Total labor $1442, parts $500. Very satisfied with price and A&S service as usual.

Final drive is still origional but have a low mileage spare on the shelf.

Now she is good as new, see you at CCR Killington.
Doug, how long ago did you have yours done?

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
IBA #31242 (SSx2, BB, BBG)
MOA #136148

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post #21 of 25 Old Jan 25th, 2010, 9:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Doug I appreciate the follow-up and costs information.

Not being familiar with the dry clutch system on the LT, is the modification to the slave cylinder, drilling of a weep hole, a BMW modification to prevent oil from building up in the clutch area or is that something that you request to have done at the time of maintenance? Where exactly is the hole drilled, do you have a pic?

As I had mentioned previously, I had the final drive bearing and seals replaced a few months ago, could anything done back then have contributed to the leak the bike is having now? I'm just trying to understand the mechanics behind all of this. The tech manual does not show a good cutaway drawing/diagram of the entire engine.

By the way, I applaud you for riding from CA to the CCR in VT in Sept, that should be a great ride. I would love to be able to commit that far out, but I'm not sure I'll have enough vacations days remaining to make the trip in Sept.


Thanks,

Jose

Jose Gonzalez
2001 K1200LT
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post #22 of 25 Old Jan 25th, 2010, 10:09 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

New
http://www.bmwlt.com/files/albums/us...e-drilling.pdf

Old (post#2)
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17510


Quote:
Originally Posted by cjgonzo1
Doug I appreciate the follow-up and costs information.

Not being familiar with the dry clutch system on the LT, is the modification to the slave cylinder, drilling of a weep hole, a BMW modification to prevent oil from building up in the clutch area or is that something that you request to have done at the time of maintenance? Where exactly is the hole drilled, do you have a pic?

As I had mentioned previously, I had the final drive bearing and seals replaced a few months ago, could anything done back then have contributed to the leak the bike is having now? I'm just trying to understand the mechanics behind all of this. The tech manual does not show a good cutaway drawing/diagram of the entire engine.

By the way, I applaud you for riding from CA to the CCR in VT in Sept, that should be a great ride. I would love to be able to commit that far out, but I'm not sure I'll have enough vacations days remaining to make the trip in Sept.


Thanks,

Jose

Hoss
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R.I.P. - '00- K1200LTE- "Barbara" - Retired at 168K 9/2011
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post #23 of 25 Old Jan 27th, 2010, 9:06 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Hoss,

Many thanks for the weep hole procedures!

After reading through the procedures it does not look all that difficult, just time consuming. If I was to take on the task myself I would go ahead and change out the rear main seal, shaft seal, trans output seal, clutch shaft seal, and clutch. However, those parts would likely require special tools to get the job done?

Regards,

Jose

Jose Gonzalez
2001 K1200LT
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post #24 of 25 Old Jan 27th, 2010, 9:48 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjgonzo1
After reading through the procedures it does not look all that difficult, just time consuming. If I was to take on the task myself I would go ahead and change out the rear main seal, shaft seal, trans output seal, clutch shaft seal, and clutch. However, those parts would likely require special tools to get the job done?
Yes and no. IMMO, I don't think there is anything that can be done to the LT that has not been done by the members of this forum. And to that end most if not all, have done it without the aid of BMW branded tools. The job you seek to undertake is a big piece of pie. Make sure you do your research and post and questions you have prior to digging a hole. In my research of this job, someone made the comment "Take it in pieces". Meaning, if you look at the whole you most likely will be over whelmed, I was. But if you take it in sections. Tupperware, then wheel, then final drive, then swing arm etc... its easy. That said, I have done what your are questioning twice, a fellow member and of coarse my own. Its not hard, but tedious. This from a person that while I have no wrenching experience besides tinkering, can read (questionable) and comprehend what needs to be done.
The special tools you are referring to consist (from memory) of the following. When and if you need any of this let us know if the "search" does not produce it. We will be glad to point you right at it after we make fun of your utter lack of knowledge of the forum

-30MM socket with custom cut out. This is to remove and more importantly install the final drive and swing arm. (Pastor jack was selling a "new" version later last year; he most likely has one left. Or as most often the case, we'll mail it to you free.
-Flywheel Brace support- this holds the crank stationary allowing you to loosen and torque the crank on the engine. Jzeiler (John) has a post with all the dimensions to make one your self.

Assuming you have the other basic odds an ends. This is it for the “special” tools. The seals (Gearbox), while I’ve heard that they are a PITA only need measurements taken to get them back in. I chose to have the stealer do the seals on my GB. Just did not want to mess with it at the time. Source your parts at a good place like Bentonville (AR) BMW. The fellow I mentioned earlier just did his and realized a savings of almost 20% over our local stealer. Ask for Denise…!

This was my project…

Hoss
'Stupidity has a knack of getting its way.' --Albert Camus
'05- K1200LT - Gretchen
R.I.P. - '00- K1200LTE- "Barbara" - Retired at 168K 9/2011
MOA, IBA, EXR & RCB and TMI
shoswell is offline  
post #25 of 25 Old Jan 27th, 2010, 11:04 pm
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Re: Oil leaking at both Intermediate Flange ends!

Also, have Hoss (shoswell) come over and help... Saved my bacon!

Thanks again, bro!

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
IBA #31242 (SSx2, BB, BBG)
MOA #136148

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