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Old Dec 27th, 2009, 10:57 am Thread Starter
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Final Drive rebuild offer

I am thinking of updating my final drive rebuild video for the CCR 2010 Tech Session.

I have a rebuilt final drive here I could take apart and rebuild but it seems kinda silly considering I've already been through it.

So I thought I'd offer a preemptive rebuild or a repair to someone who might want it. I'd like to be reimbursed for parts and shipping which generally amounts to about $250 or less.

I'd document original preload, rebuild using both the BMW service manual technique and the method shown in my current video which was introduces to us by Dman. A spread sheet documenting preload measurements and a copy of the new video will be returned with the drive.

If anyone is interested in this, pls send me a pm.

Thanks

Last edited by CharlieVT; Dec 27th, 2009 at 11:59 am.
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Old Dec 27th, 2009, 11:59 am
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
I am thinking of updating my final drive rebuild video for the CCR 2010 Tech Session.

I have a rebuilt final drive here I could take apart and rebuild but it seems kinda silly considering I've already been through it.

So I thought I'd offer a preemptive rebuild or a repair to someone who might want it. I'd like to be reimbursed for parts and shipping which generally amounts to about $250 or less.

I'd document original preload, rebuild using both the BMW service manual technique and the method shown in my current video which was introduces to us by Dman. A spread sheet documenting preload measurements and a copy of the new video will be returned with the drive.

If anyone is interested in this, pls send me a pm.

Thanks
That's another amazing offer from you, Curtis. Makes me wish I had a coupla more FDs to send ya, like the last one you did for me!!

And to think you don't get reimbursed for your valuable time and sweat!! OK, maybe those M&Ms from Max's parts department are worth it!!

For anyone taking Curtis up on his offer, easiest thang for me wuz to clean up the o/s of the FD case with some elbow grease and WD-40; zip-wrap the pivot bearings in place; took mine to our local independent parcel express shoppe and let him pack it well (he's on the hook if damaged during transit); and slipped a paid return label in the box for Curtis to use when he's ready to ship it back to ya. Worked a treat, and really nice to find the data info for shim thickness and pre-load figures in the box.

Boy oh boy, you really believe in that 'pass it forward' mantra, Curtis!!!

Best to ya.
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Old Dec 27th, 2009, 12:00 pm Thread Starter
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Final drive found

It seems I have found a drive, Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
I am thinking of updating my final drive rebuild video for the CCR 2010 Tech Session.

I have a rebuilt final drive here I could take apart and rebuild but it seems kinda silly considering I've already been through it.

So I thought I'd offer a preemptive rebuild or a repair to someone who might want it. I'd like to be reimbursed for parts and shipping which generally amounts to about $250 or less.

I'd document original preload, rebuild using both the BMW service manual technique and the method shown in my current video which was introduces to us by Dman. A spread sheet documenting preload measurements and a copy of the new video will be returned with the drive.

If anyone is interested in this, pls send me a pm.

Thanks
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Old Dec 27th, 2009, 12:16 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Although I canīt apply ( luckily donīt need it ), sounds like an offer too good to miss.
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Old Dec 27th, 2009, 3:35 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Greetings CharlieVT,

If the FD you have planned falls thru, I would love to be next in line. My FD boot caught fire this morning, so it's gonna have to come apart to replace that at least anyway. I have noticed that there is a slight amount of play at the rear wheel, so a rebuild is in my future soon, I believe. See my fire post: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51735

I have watched your video and believe that you have hit the nail on the head with regards to repeated failures. The LT community is blessed to have you and people of your ilk going the extra mile to inform and enlighten. Thank you!

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Old Dec 27th, 2009, 4:10 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Curtis I still have this 8 mile new FD. I would love to know how close or how far a new drive for a BMW K1200 LT is off or on.

I know it seems a waste when you can do one to get or keep someone on the road. If you ever get slow enough or curious enough I would take care of it on my dime no worries. Should have hauled it up to you last year and been done with it.

Anyway as others have said I think you have defined fixing one of the nemesis of this bike, and you will be written into the FD history of the K1200 LT as we know it now.

Well deserved accolades Curtis.

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Old Dec 27th, 2009, 4:32 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

OK, this just sucks! I'm in line behind Family_fun. Going in for back surgery, and since my final drive will be off line, would've been a great time to pull the bike's too!

Curtis, keep this thread going with a post on what you find for wear and preload. I'm still on the fence for a pre-emptive build. Thanks!
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Old Dec 27th, 2009, 7:19 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

If everyone else falls through, I'd like to get in line. Mine has shown a small amount of lube between the wheel and the hub when I have pulled the wheel. I'm really leaning toward a pre-emptive rebuild before next season.

I don't think I'm that far from you, I'm about 15 miles south of Max BMW in North Hampton.

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Old Dec 28th, 2009, 12:18 am
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Sir Charlie,
I have an 04 from an RT. I can offer this one, if you'd like.
PM me if you would like..

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Old Dec 28th, 2009, 9:32 am
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Need Help Curtis? I can lend a hand.
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Old Dec 28th, 2009, 10:52 am
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Lightbulb Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

I see that a lot of folks have concerns about their FD. If anyone is in a bind I have a good spare FD from an 05 LT to lend while you get yours repaired. You just pay for shipping and return the drive when yours is back on your bike.

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Old Jan 26th, 2010, 11:34 am Thread Starter
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Looking for one more drive to replace the crownwheel bearing on.

Since I started this thread I have done a couple more drives, generated some more video, and ended up with a spare new crownwheel bearing. (I ordered bearings in anticipation of final drives arriving and one gentleman sent a new bearing along with his drive, hence my spare.)

Your costs will be shipping both ways, cost of bearing and seal, shim if I don't have the required shim in inventory and need to order one, plus $25 I add for cleaning solvent and shop rags. This is generally $200-300.

So if you have a final drive off a K1200LT that has either suffered a crownwheel bearing failure or you would like a preemptive rebuild please send me a private message on the board.
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Old Jan 26th, 2010, 12:20 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
Looking for one more drive to replace the crownwheel bearing on.

Since I started this thread I have done a couple more drives, generated some more video, and ended up with a spare new crownwheel bearing. (I ordered bearings in anticipation of final drives arriving and one gentleman sent a new bearing along with his drive, hence my spare.)

Your costs will be shipping both ways, cost of bearing and seal, shim if I don't have the required shim in inventory and need to order one, plus $25 I add for cleaning solvent and shop rags. This is generally $200-300.

So if you have a final drive off a K1200LT that has either suffered a crownwheel bearing failure or you would like a preemptive rebuild please send me a private message on the board.
PM sent

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Old Jan 26th, 2010, 12:59 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
Looking for one more drive to replace the crownwheel bearing on.

Since I started this thread I have done a couple more drives, generated some more video, and ended up with a spare new crownwheel bearing. (I ordered bearings in anticipation of final drives arriving and one gentleman sent a new bearing along with his drive, hence my spare.)

Your costs will be shipping both ways, cost of bearing and seal, shim if I don't have the required shim in inventory and need to order one, plus $25 I add for cleaning solvent and shop rags. This is generally $200-300.

So if you have a final drive off a K1200LT that has either suffered a crownwheel bearing failure or you would like a preemptive rebuild please send me a private message on the board.
GS FD available.
PM Sent.

Doug Holck
Lodi, Ca

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but when I do I prefer BMW's.
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Old Jan 26th, 2010, 1:45 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

I am a proud owner of a Curtis rebuilt final drive!! If anyone finds themselves stranded somewhere waiting on a final drive or parts, send me a PM and you can borrow this one. It is off an earlier model with the speed sensor on the top. I had purchased the unit off ebay so I didn't know it's history. I drained the oil out before sending it and didn't see any metal. Curtis sent back the bearings and seal that came out of it and looking at it with my untrained eye it looks ok. I could also send that bearing to someone that finds themselves in a pinch needing to make it a few miles home or something like that.

This is the first time in my life that I have felt the need to keep a spare anything, well not including the extra shift lever and ball, (try getting a broken shift ball out of there along side the road). Looking at the number of people here that feel that same way seems sad and has really tainted my view of BMW engineering and customer support.

Thanks again to Curtis and all he does for this community.

Dave
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Old Jan 26th, 2010, 7:07 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

I am also an owner of a Curtis rebuild!!

Is boxed ready to ship to me or anyone else who needs a FD while on the road.

Looks cleaner then the one I sent in!!!

Thanks, Curtis.

Regards,
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Old Jan 27th, 2010, 12:42 am Thread Starter
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Thanks Gents,
I now have Plenty of offers of drives to rebuild at this point.
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Old Jan 27th, 2010, 6:48 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Where can one purchase you latest video? Thanks.
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Old Jan 28th, 2010, 6:09 am Thread Starter
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Quote:
Originally Posted by FairfaxPoker
Where can one purchase you latest video? Thanks.
You can't purchase it.
Amended: there is not yet a "latest video". There is an update in the works, not telling when it will be completed. The original and only one is on this server.

You can probably get it here on this site if the link still works:
Try this:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41063
or this
http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv

There are a few things I would change or add to in the video. The first of which is that is it not necessary to heat the cover to remove it from the drive housing.

Something you could do, if you haven't is contribute to this site. (BTW I am not part of the group of folks who maintain this board, just a supporting member like you.)
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/subscriptions.php

Last edited by CharlieVT; Jan 28th, 2010 at 10:31 am.
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Old Jan 28th, 2010, 2:17 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

OK charlie,
I'll send bucks to the site, It is a good thing all of you do out here forwarding us to keep our bikes with their peculiar needs attended to..

I'd Be proud to do that, this site has been invaluablein many ways..

One is that they dont seem to mind my weird sense of humor.. least no one said they minded

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Old Jan 28th, 2010, 5:07 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Quote:
Originally Posted by haughty
OK charlie,
I'll send bucks to the site, It is a good thing all of you do out here forwarding us to keep our bikes with their peculiar needs attended to..
I'd Be proud to do that, this site has been invaluablein many ways..
One is that they dont seem to mind my weird sense of humor.. least no one said they minded
Hey, I wasn't trying do a general broadcast to drum up donations to the site, I just thought that if FairfaxPoker was willing to pay for a copy of my free video he could give the bucks to the site instead.

And secondly..... you have a sense of humor?
I like the Dr. Suess quote.
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Old Feb 3rd, 2010, 6:23 am Thread Starter
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Question Final Drive video editing help

Looking for suggestions on video editing which I am not experienced at.
I record using an old mini-VHS camcorder and then use a VHS to DVD convertor to make a DVD. My last video I edited by stopping and starting the recording process from VHS to DVD. It is a tedious and inaccurate process.

I'd like to convert my DVD to a format that I can then edit using computer software. I have Microsoft Movie Maker which came with the computer but it won't work with the DVD format. So I have tried downloading a couple of different programs that are supposed to convert the DVD format to .avi, .mpg, or other format that the Movie Maker software can deal with.

This is driving me nuts.... there are so many variables and software switches in the conversion process I can't seem to get the conversion to work.

Anyone have a suggestion that makes this process easy?

BTW, I got several offers of drives to rebuild, it seems I now have 2 KLT drives, 1 RT, and one GS drive headed this way. I have to start saying "no" to additional offers.
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Old Feb 3rd, 2010, 9:05 am
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Charlie
If you havn't done the video yet, I would strongly recommend borrowing (or buying) an AVI video camera. Then it will edit right in MS Movie Maker (a very straight forward editing route)

I would lend you mine, but I am across the pond. It only cost Ģ60 (see results in my youtube page)

If you get one that recoirds onto an SD card, it makes life very simple

Can't wait to see the results, I still have a drive sitting on the work bench - next to that clever micro-measuring bit of kit you recommended

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Old Feb 3rd, 2010, 10:05 am
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Curtis,
I can help with this. I am back on Friday. PM me if you need a hand.
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Old Feb 3rd, 2010, 3:38 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

I use this totally free DVD ripper to convert movies from a DVD to nearly any format video file that you would like.

DVD Ripper Platinum

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old Feb 8th, 2010, 2:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Quote:
Originally Posted by cealbrecht
I use this totally free DVD ripper to convert movies from a DVD to nearly any format video file that you would like.

DVD Ripper Platinum
Thanks to all who offered help. I even had an offer of a free camera!
It seems I have cracked this nut.
Convert my mini-VHS to DVD.
Put the DVD in my computer and convert to .avi format with the above suggested software.
Then edit those video files with a downloaded video editor (the MS program that came with my computer wouldn't do anything but lock up the machine).
So I at least think I have a mechanism to edit my stuff.
Thanks to all who helped or offered help !
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Old Feb 8th, 2010, 3:58 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Is there an equivalent for the DVD Ripper for the Mac, Snow Leopard?

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Old Feb 9th, 2010, 4:29 pm Thread Starter
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Doug's bearing pics

I don't know how to attach a pic to a pm so here are pics of Doug's R1150 GS final drive.
A little history for those who might be curious:
Stopped riding because of vibration. No oil leak as far as I know, and no evidence of that.
Bearing retainer intact. Oil seal intact.
Lots of shiney flakes (not grey mud) on the drain magnet.
Some spalling on the balls but small and hard to photograph.
BUT, very visible spalling on both inner and outer races, pics of these attached.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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Name:	doug's outer race.jpg
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Old Feb 9th, 2010, 5:29 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

For accuracy my FD is off an 04 R1150GS Adventure. Failed at 57,000 miles after surviving the Dalton and Dempster Hwys in Alaska/Yukon, several Death Valley trips and many other adventures (it was ridden HARD). See photo above left.
The failure began after a 50 mile freeway run at 80 mph east out of Rapid City to the Wall Drug Store while I was at CCR. When I took off again it felt like I had a rock or nail in a tire (thump, thump, thump) kind of like expansion joints on a freeway except I was on a paved smooth asphalt road. Pulled over, inspected tire and saw nothing so took off again, same thumping. Stopped and put bike on center stand, took off pannier so I could rotate rear tire for better inspection and upon rolling, FD sounded like it had rocks inside and vibrated, NO side to side movement/wobble or oil leakage.
Thanks Curtis for taking on the rebuild.

Doug Holck
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Last edited by dougholck; Feb 9th, 2010 at 5:54 pm.
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Old Feb 9th, 2010, 7:28 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

That is not spalling Curtis, those are CRATERS!! No wonder it felt a bit rough.

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Old Feb 9th, 2010, 8:53 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougholck
For accuracy my FD is off an 04 R1150GS Adventure. Failed at 57,000 miles after surviving the Dalton and Dempster Hwys in Alaska/Yukon, several Death Valley trips and many other adventures (it was ridden HARD). See photo above left.
The failure began after a 50 mile freeway run at 80 mph east out of Rapid City to the Wall Drug Store while I was at CCR. When I took off again it felt like I had a rock or nail in a tire (thump, thump, thump) kind of like expansion joints on a freeway except I was on a paved smooth asphalt road. Pulled over, inspected tire and saw nothing so took off again, same thumping. Stopped and put bike on center stand, took off pannier so I could rotate rear tire for better inspection and upon rolling, FD sounded like it had rocks inside and vibrated, NO side to side movement/wobble or oil leakage.
Thanks Curtis for taking on the rebuild.
Did you jump the bike or get a lot of impacts to the rear wheel? It almost looks like metal fatigue from numerous overstress events such as from hard impacts.

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Old Feb 10th, 2010, 6:47 am Thread Starter
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
That is not spalling Curtis, those are CRATERS!! No wonder it felt a bit rough.
Okay Craters!

Actually, this is a pretty typical appearance of failed bearings I have looked at. If anything is unusual, the pitting/cratering is more localized to select areas of the races rather than spread around the circumference of the races.

Having looked at enough of these in various stages of bearing degradation, and asking the riders for a description of events leading up to the problem, I am getting a pretty good sense of how the bearings go.

On bearings where the rider stopped riding as soon a roughness was noted there is limited pitting of the races. In some, the balls have very minor pitting and the retainer is intact. This is an example of a drive where the rider stopped riding relatively soon after noting the roughness.
When the rider has continued to ride, either not having noticed the roughness or simply trying to get further down the road, the pitting of balls and races becomes more severe and more widely distributed around the races; in those cases the retainer has failed and shredded the oil seal.

Based on my observations I would offer the following opinion:

Early detection of impending bearing failure is a crap-shoot. When the bearing starts to go, it goes relatively quickly. If you check for metal chips/flakes on the drain magnet frequently, you might catch it. But I suspect it is just a few hundred miles, if not, just a few thousand between when the chips/flakes start being produced and outright bearing failure.

Play at the rear wheel is probably of no value it detecting impending bearing failure. Even the bearings with broken retainers have very little axial run-out; by the time you can detect play at the rear wheel secondary to crownwheel bearing failure, your seal is shredded and oil is all over the rear wheel. In short, oil leaking is probably going to be an earlier indicator of bearing failure than is detectable play at the rear wheel.
Detectable play at the rear wheel IS probably an indication of bad pivot bearings or other swing arm problem.
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Old Feb 10th, 2010, 9:24 am
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

I just mapped out where i was at, in Aransas Pass, Tx- to the hotel to the ride to back home again.
I had the read drive oil replaced about 3k prior to the *EVENT*. I noticed a roughness as if the rear/tire was almost like it was out of balance. Total miles from notice of roughness to event was approximately 30 miles. At the initial point of roughness, I stopped back at hotel.

I checked everything. SIde to side play (none), pressures (ok) and even checked oil level on final drive. Oil was warm to the touch (hand <150 f). When I decided to go out and see if it would continue, no roughness was noticed. I took probably the only two sweepers (60 mph) I could find in the area and after that it began to make noise..

I was 4 miles from hotel at that point. Speed at that point didnt matter as the damage was already evident.. SOunded as if I was dropping cheap silverware on the road at this point (ching ching pop ching ching).. and all sorts of fluid coming out at this point.. Last half mile i limped her to the hotel at idle.. just to get back as I didnt have a truck to pick her up..
Call to the stealer was of no help...but they could sellme one if I bought one...

Don't be afraid to say what you feel, as those that matter DOnt mind and those that mind Dont matter.
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1980 YAMAHA XJ650 MAXIM (RIP)
1982 YAMAHA 750 VIRAGO (SHES GONE)
1982 SUZUKI GS1000 (GONE)
2001 BMW K1200LT
2004 BMW R 1150 RT Sold.....
2007 BMW R 1200 GS
1986 BMW K100RT WITH A FLEXIT SIDECAR
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Old Feb 10th, 2010, 12:52 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

Since we have a nice description of this event, I have attached photos of the crownwheel bearing associated with this failure. Pitting of the races is pretty much continuous around the races although more evenly distributed on the inner race than the outer race. Bearing retainer torn up, oil seal torn up, and pieces of retainer (large and small) free inside the drive housing. The shim is worn through and crumpled. (I have now seen a few drives where the outer bearing race spins, causing the shim to spin, the shim gets crumpled up in the oil drain port in the shim seat of the final drive cover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haughty
I just mapped out where i was at, in Aransas Pass, Tx- to the hotel to the ride to back home again.
I had the read drive oil replaced about 3k prior to the *EVENT*. I noticed a roughness as if the rear/tire was almost like it was out of balance. Total miles from notice of roughness to event was approximately 30 miles. At the initial point of roughness, I stopped back at hotel.

I checked everything. SIde to side play (none), pressures (ok) and even checked oil level on final drive. Oil was warm to the touch (hand <150 f). When I decided to go out and see if it would continue, no roughness was noticed. I took probably the only two sweepers (60 mph) I could find in the area and after that it began to make noise..

I was 4 miles from hotel at that point. Speed at that point didnt matter as the damage was already evident.. SOunded as if I was dropping cheap silverware on the road at this point (ching ching pop ching ching).. and all sorts of fluid coming out at this point.. Last half mile i limped her to the hotel at idle.. just to get back as I didnt have a truck to pick her up..
Call to the stealer was of no help...but they could sellme one if I bought one...
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Old Feb 10th, 2010, 1:35 pm
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

wow, looking at the damage- I did good!

Thanks for the AUtopsy.. I did clean up the outside evidence tho, so all I can say there was likely just one shooter..

WHat gets me is the amount of pitting observed on the surfaces as if maybe the races were defective in hardness.or something else. I believe its the preload as you have suggested.
THe drive really had few miles even though it did spend its first part of its life up in your neck of the woods.. It had 10k miles when I got it from XXX dealership in NH. I really like these guys, good to deal with..
No blame, just stating where the bike spent its *youth Development Years*..
I am pretty sure the bike was taken care of well as the service book was complete and up to date..

Its all about numbers I guess...

Thanks so much for the pics and the report. BMW ya hear of what great people we have here?
Better take care of this guy!

PIe Ride! Free Trip to the fatherland , ride in the ALPS!

Don't be afraid to say what you feel, as those that matter DOnt mind and those that mind Dont matter.
Dr.Suess-
-


1980 YAMAHA XJ650 MAXIM (RIP)
1982 YAMAHA 750 VIRAGO (SHES GONE)
1982 SUZUKI GS1000 (GONE)
2001 BMW K1200LT
2004 BMW R 1150 RT Sold.....
2007 BMW R 1200 GS
1986 BMW K100RT WITH A FLEXIT SIDECAR
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1985 BMW K100 RT ( parts bike, but its too nice to do that, so it runs)
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Old Jul 23rd, 2016, 8:33 am
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Re: Final Drive rebuild offer

are you still re-building FD ? I have one here in Ottawa Canada that I need re-built because I suffered a crownwheel bearing failure. It is a 2001 model. Please respond using my personal e-mail: [email protected] thanks
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