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post #1 of 11 Old Dec 7th, 2009, 8:31 pm Thread Starter
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Spiegler brake kit issue

So my scooter developed the dreaded leaking brake hose issue and I decided in the meantime to order a set of Spiegler brake lines for it. I recieved the kit last Friday and found a problem with it. The 410 style threaded flare fittings on the front brake system thread into a 3-way junction block. The problem that I have with the kit is the junction block reciving holes do not have the mating inverted flare required for the hose ends. The base of the junction block has the same "female" flare as the hose end does.
So first thing this morning I gave Spiegler a call to find out what's going on with the non-compatable parts that I have. The guy I spoke with today said that "Yea, those are the correct ends. You just have to crank down on the nut and it seals up with no issues. We make these hoses for a lot of manufactureres with no issues at all with sealing". In my opinion, the guy is totally full of crap. I work on hot-rod stuff all day long and there's no way I would put together brake components on a car the same way that they want me to install it on my bike!
So in a nutshell, has anybody else had brake fluid seepage or a brake failure with the way they want these parts installed?


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post #2 of 11 Old Dec 7th, 2009, 8:48 pm
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Re: Spiegler brake kit issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine
So my scooter developed the dreaded leaking brake hose issue and I decided in the meantime to order a set of Spiegler brake lines for it. I recieved the kit last Friday and found a problem with it. The 410 style threaded flare fittings on the front brake system thread into a 3-way junction block. The problem that I have with the kit is the junction block reciving holes do not have the mating inverted flare required for the hose ends. The base of the junction block has the same "female" flare as the hose end does.
So first thing this morning I gave Spiegler a call to find out what's going on with the non-compatable parts that I have. The guy I spoke with today said that "Yea, those are the correct ends. You just have to crank down on the nut and it seals up with no issues. We make these hoses for a lot of manufactureres with no issues at all with sealing". In my opinion, the guy is totally full of crap. I work on hot-rod stuff all day long and there's no way I would put together brake components on a car the same way that they want me to install it on my bike!
So in a nutshell, has anybody else had brake fluid seepage or a brake failure with the way they want these parts installed?


It is hard to tell from the pictures, but it appears to me that the sealing surface is the outer chamfer rather than the inner inverted "dome." It appears that the outer part of the T fitting near where the threads start does have a chamfer that will mate with the narrow chamfer on the male part. It looks to me as though this should be fine.

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post #3 of 11 Old Dec 7th, 2009, 8:55 pm
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Re: Spiegler brake kit issue

I installed a Spigler brake kit on my '99 LT and did have a seep at the t-block after bleeding the brakes. I retorqued the lines going into the t-block and have not had a leak since.

Best of luck,
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post #4 of 11 Old Dec 7th, 2009, 9:17 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Spiegler brake kit issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
It is hard to tell from the pictures, but it appears to me that the sealing surface is the outer chamfer rather than the inner inverted "dome." It appears that the outer part of the T fitting near where the threads start does have a chamfer that will mate with the narrow chamfer on the male part. It looks to me as though this should be fine.
That chamfer is only about .035" which isn't much for the possible pressures that can be had. I do see that there has been some noted failures of the T-fitting which were mostly cracks. Maybe they're cracking because they want the installer to wedge the hose end taper into the T-fitting.....
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post #5 of 11 Old Dec 7th, 2009, 9:54 pm
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Re: Spiegler brake kit issue

I just did mine three weeks ago, no leaks and everything fit as is was suppose to.

Mike Trevelino
Williamsburg, VA
2008 RT
2000 LT - Totaled at 99,960 miles


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post #6 of 11 Old Dec 7th, 2009, 11:08 pm
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Re: Spiegler brake kit issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine
I do see that there has been some noted failures of the T-fitting which were mostly cracks.
I saw those posts as well. There was a problem with the tees cracking, but Spiegler redesigned the tee and I don't believe they've had a failure since.

I swapped my lines out earlier this year. The non-flex steel line connection didn't look like yours, assuming that's what the upper picture is of. While yours looks concave, mine are convex. Sorry, don't have a picture. I bet somebody here will!

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post #7 of 11 Old Dec 7th, 2009, 11:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Spiegler brake kit issue

Shoot....I'd venture to say that the fittings are splitting because they want the installer to basicly wedge the outer taper of the flare fitting into the union. That's just like driving a wedge into a tree. The only relief the fitting can have when under stress is to expand to the outside creating a crack. I'm no engineer but it isn't that hard to figure out-
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post #8 of 11 Old Dec 8th, 2009, 7:53 am
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Re: Spiegler brake kit issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine
Shoot....I'd venture to say that the fittings are splitting because they want the installer to basicly wedge the outer taper of the flare fitting into the union. That's just like driving a wedge into a tree. The only relief the fitting can have when under stress is to expand to the outside creating a crack. I'm no engineer but it isn't that hard to figure out-
The Cracking "T" block was caused be a "NEW" supplier providing inferior materials. Spiegler went to a different supplier & all problems stopped. As for your question of "FIT" I've installed Spiegler lines on 4 LT's with NO leaks ever.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #9 of 11 Old Dec 8th, 2009, 11:43 am
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Re: Spiegler brake kit issue

Im going to hijack this thread for a quick question. I know it could be looked at as preventive maintenance, but it there any advantage to replacing existing brake lines with the Spiegler kit when there are know issues with them? I have an 05 LT, no brake problems that I can tell.

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post #10 of 11 Old Dec 8th, 2009, 7:03 pm
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Thumbs up Re: Spiegler brake kit issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by rab1967
Im going to hijack this thread for a quick question. I know it could be looked at as preventive maintenance, but it there any advantage to replacing existing brake lines with the Spiegler kit when there are know issues with them? I have an 05 LT, no brake problems that I can tell.
Bob,
the quick and short answer is YES.. preventative medicine before they develop and issue is only part of the benefit. You should notice a more solid feel to the brakes after the new lines are in.. I have a new set in the garage waiting on me to heal from a new hip to be installed.. and I also have an '05 .. Also my riding buddy also has a set for us to do as well.. I plan to get good at doing brakes for sure !!! Get them and don't look back. Many folks on the site have them and all swear the improvement and peace of mind are worth it.

Bill
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post #11 of 11 Old Dec 9th, 2009, 5:18 am
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Re: Spiegler brake kit issue

Thanks. Another project to add to the "To Do" list for this winter.

Bob Brendel
05 LT, Light Metallic Yellow
99 LT, Totaled 3/09
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