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post #1 of 30 Old Nov 12th, 2009, 4:40 pm Thread Starter
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Break help!

Two weeks ago I changed my rear break pads. Everything worked great. Yesterday I changed the oil, transmission fluid and FD fluid. I also mounted a new tire on the rear. Everything worked great. After reinstalling everything and riding down the road I had no rear breaks! Limping back home and looking I could not find anything wrong? Break lever goes down all the way and the ABS motor sound like its working (making the humming noise) but nothing is stopping. Break light stays on and it seems like the thing is sticking? ABS will hum for a while until the break light goes out? I'm confusied about what may have happened. Anyone got any ideas? Fluid is full. Front works fine. 2002 modle. 19000 miles.
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post #2 of 30 Old Nov 12th, 2009, 7:25 pm
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Re: Break help!

The ABS pumps will whine anytime the brake lights are on. Sounds like you may have blown the line from the rear master cylinder to the ABS unit. You can check the integrity of the integral system by placing it on the center stand and have some one rotate the rear wheel with the key on (engine off) and pull the front lever. If the rear wheel stops your issue is with the master cylinder and associated line.

If the wheel does not stop shut her down and look at the rear reservoir. May have to loosen the plastic right in front of the saddle bag. This reservoir has two separate chambers one is for the front wheel circuit (calipers) and the other is shared by both the rear control circuit ( rear master cylinder) and the rear wheel circuit (caliper). If you have lost fluid in that chamber you would get no rear pedal or brake action.

Take a look and let us know what you find.
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
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post #3 of 30 Old Nov 12th, 2009, 9:08 pm
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Re: Break help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
The ABS pumps will whine anytime the brake lights are on. Sounds like you may have blown the line from the rear master cylinder to the ABS unit. You can check the integrity of the integral system by placing it on the center stand and have some one rotate the rear wheel with the key on (engine off) and pull the front lever. If the rear wheel stops your issue is with the master cylinder and associated line.

If the wheel does not stop shut her down and look at the rear reservoir. May have to loosen the plastic right in front of the saddle bag. This reservoir has two separate chambers one is for the front wheel circuit (calipers) and the other is shared by both the rear control circuit ( rear master cylinder) and the rear wheel circuit (caliper). If you have lost fluid in that chamber you would get no rear pedal or brake action.

Take a look and let us know what you find.
Do you sleep with the spec's for these things on an audio tape or what?????

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post #4 of 30 Old Nov 13th, 2009, 9:53 am
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Re: Break help!

I have been accused of loving wrenching more than riding but I think it is even Steven. If I can ride I ride if I can't ride I wrench.

Or I wrench , therefore I am.

Yes I need help. Hi, my name is John and it has been two days since I had a wrench in my hands...

John
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post #5 of 30 Old Nov 13th, 2009, 11:03 am
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Re: Break help!

My own personal pet peave; but it BRAKES, not breaks.
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post #6 of 30 Old Nov 13th, 2009, 5:09 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Break help!

IT'S brakes
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post #7 of 30 Old Nov 13th, 2009, 5:38 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Break help!

Switched on with engine off, pull front brake and rear wheel stops great. Rear brake applied and just a little drag. Now I have fluid leaking around the foot pedal. Must be something with the master cylinder? Don't know what i might have done for this to start? Just my luck I guess. Looks like the tupperware will have to come off after all.
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post #8 of 30 Old Nov 13th, 2009, 6:09 pm
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Re: Break help!

The flex line from the rear master cylinder to the solid line to the ABS unit is a point of failure.
I had a new stainless one made up at the Hose Place here in town for about 20 bucks..

When the bike gets serviced somtimes that piece is taken off and left to hang. Eventually the hose fails.

Cheap fix.....For a BMW

John

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post #9 of 30 Old Nov 13th, 2009, 10:47 pm
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Re: Break help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnieds
Switched on with engine off, pull front brake and rear wheel stops great. Rear brake applied and just a little drag. Now I have fluid leaking around the foot pedal. Must be something with the master cylinder? Don't know what i might have done for this to start? Just my luck I guess. Looks like the tupperware will have to come off after all.
Not much to remove here. Just the front and rear foot plate and the tupperware refered to as the "battery cover". You can undo the front torx screw by pulling out on the big fairing and using a #20 torx (the screw is #25) in an offset mode. That will give you access to the line and MC. Either one could be leaking and there is no "cause" other than age. Just be aware of how the hoses are routed around the MC (take some pictures) the twist is not obvious when you re-assemble unless you note it before you take it apart.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #10 of 30 Old Nov 14th, 2009, 1:02 am
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Talking Re: Break help!

Hey John,

I am glad you "Wrench therefore, You Are"... LOL
You know more about brakes than the dealers do.

I did talk to my friend at the dealer today and he got a bulletin from BMW NA and they are working on refurbed ABS units. He is hoping to get his hands on the parts list needed to repair the unit or get it repaired.

I also talked to modulemaster.com in Idaho and the have been working on ABS I & II. They would love to get their hands on a broken integral ABS unit to tear into.

FYI... I am still looking for a ABS modulator for an '02 LT

Tvguy
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'11 R1200RT - "Night Fury" SOLD
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post #11 of 30 Old Nov 14th, 2009, 11:53 am
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Re: Break help!

Jeff,

I have been following your struggles. Hope we can find a rebuilder. Getting the parts is the hard part. If the electronics are marked well there may be a chance, but there is just not a lot of documentation out there. It would be nice to know who they jobbed it out to for manufacture.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #12 of 30 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 1:25 am
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Lightbulb Re: Break help!

Hi John,

I got some info from Darrell on another thread and he gave the site www.bmwabs.com
They actually have the LT listed as one of the models they can repair. It doesn't say whether or not they fix integral systems, BUT the part number they listed starts with the first 6 digits that mine has.

I have been told the the first 6 digits and/or the last 6 digits need to match the old unit to ensure that the ABS unit with function properly in the LT.

Hopefully they can take mine and fix it... that would work for me.

Jeff

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'11 R1200RT - "Night Fury" SOLD
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post #13 of 30 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 10:07 am
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Re: Break help!

They're brakes, but when you brake and they break, then they're broke. But which came first, the brake or the break?

Seriously though, if you don't want to use an EO line pull the old one and give Spiegler a call. They can make you up a replacement which will probably cost less than the OE and be of better quality.
http://www.spieglerusa.com/cfm/brakelines.cfm


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post #14 of 30 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 3:34 pm
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Re: Break help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvguy
Hi John,

I got some info from Darrell on another thread and he gave the site www.bmwabs.com
They actually have the LT listed as one of the models they can repair. It doesn't say whether or not they fix integral systems, BUT the part number they listed starts with the first 6 digits that mine has.

I have been told the the first 6 digits and/or the last 6 digits need to match the old unit to ensure that the ABS unit with function properly in the LT.

Hopefully they can take mine and fix it... that would work for me.

Jeff
I looked at the site and followed the trail to the LT ABS unit and the picture was the ABS II unit. But maybe they are willing to try the Integral unit.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #15 of 30 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 5:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Break help!

Found the leak! The little short hose from the foot cylinder up to the steel line block. Small pin hole leak. Where can I find one? It was 80degrees today and I couldn't ride. That sucks.....
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post #16 of 30 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 10:37 pm
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Re: Break help!

You can get a replacement one from the dealer or Spiegler makes SS aftermarket lines for the LT.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #17 of 30 Old Nov 16th, 2009, 12:12 am
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Lightbulb Re: Break help!

Hey John,

I did notice that the picture was not correct. They sent me an email telling me to send my unit in and they could fix it for $689. I told them it was an integral brake unit.

I will call them tomorrow to double confirm they can fix my unit.

Jeff

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post #18 of 30 Old Nov 17th, 2009, 5:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Break help!

Ordered the hose from BMW of Atlanta. Hope to have it Thursday and on by Friday. Hopefully riding by Friday afternoon.
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post #19 of 30 Old Nov 17th, 2009, 8:26 pm
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Re: Break help!

You will bleed this hose from the master cylinder up to the ABS unit only - NOT to the rear caliper. This will be done with the key off. The picture I have is of a later model (05) unit but yours is similar in that you have bleeder #1 and #3 as shown here but bleeder #2 is on the outboard side of the ABS just above all the brake pipes. You will fill the reservoir and pump the pedal then bleed out air from #1. Once that is done shift to #2 on the side. Then to the long one #3. Then back to #1 for good measure. Keep the reservoir full. If you have done it correctly you should have a firm pedal. If your reservoir ran dry because of the leak I would recommend bleeding the wheel circuit.

This is done by filling the reservoir and then turn on the key and apply the rear brake pedal. Open the bleed nipple on the caliper and watch how fast the fluid is pumped out. Keep an eye on the reservoir, don't let it run dry. Close the bleeder on the caliper and re-fill the reservoir.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #20 of 30 Old Nov 20th, 2009, 10:15 am Thread Starter
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Re: Break help!

Thanks. I'm planning on doing it today sometime.
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post #21 of 30 Old Nov 21st, 2009, 11:29 am Thread Starter
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Re: Break help!

I've blead what i think is #1 and #3. Can't get to #2 to bleed it. I seem to have the best brake pedle ever. What do you think? My hose must have had an internal leak until i streached it changing the transmission fluid and created the leak? Up the road it worked great and no lights flashed. I'm thnking I'll put it back together and ride and see what happens?

Ronnie
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post #22 of 30 Old Nov 21st, 2009, 11:47 am
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Thumbs up Re: Break help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnieds
I've blead what i think is #1 and #3. Can't get to #2 to bleed it. I seem to have the best brake pedle ever. What do you think? My hose must have had an internal leak until i streached it changing the transmission fluid and created the leak? Up the road it worked great and no lights flashed. I'm thnking I'll put it back together and ride and see what happens?
Ronnie,
I agree your trannie service probably uncovered a weakness in an older line !!! It sounds like you are quite close, so if you have trouble getting to #2.. you can make sure the key is off.. unclip the big electrical connector and remove it temporarily, then use a small box wrench to break free the #2 screw, re-install the connector and then complete the procedure. Don't forget to go back and tighten down #2 when all done :<)
PS. for my 2 cents.. getting a Spiegler SS set for the whole bike is a great investment as it seems we have a lot of LT's with a few years on them that experienced a leak or failure of the lined rubber ones.. and once you go SS.. never more :<)

Bill
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post #23 of 30 Old Nov 21st, 2009, 1:50 pm
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Re: Break help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnieds
Two weeks ago I changed my rear break pads. Everything worked great. Yesterday I changed the oil, transmission fluid and FD fluid. I also mounted a new tire on the rear. Everything worked great. After reinstalling everything and riding down the road I had no rear breaks! Limping back home and looking I could not find anything wrong? Break lever goes down all the way and the ABS motor sound like its working (making the humming noise) but nothing is stopping. Break light stays on and it seems like the thing is sticking? ABS will hum for a while until the break light goes out? I'm confusied about what may have happened. Anyone got any ideas? Fluid is full. Front works fine. 2002 modle. 19000 miles.
To break is the act of damaging something or
break is something you do with a KitKat.

Presumably you are taking about Brakes??
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post #24 of 30 Old Nov 21st, 2009, 5:16 pm
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Re: Break help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnieds
I've blead what i think is #1 and #3. Can't get to #2 to bleed it. I seem to have the best brake pedle ever. What do you think? My hose must have had an internal leak until i streached it changing the transmission fluid and created the leak? Up the road it worked great and no lights flashed. I'm thnking I'll put it back together and ride and see what happens?

Ronnie
#2 has a very small passage of fluid and I wouldn't worry about it.

If you did everything right then you should have that firm pedal and no blinking lights. Congratulations on fixing your ride yourself.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #25 of 30 Old Nov 21st, 2009, 5:26 pm
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Re: Break help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by billd
Ronnie,
I agree your trannie service probably uncovered a weakness in an older line !!! It sounds like you are quite close, so if you have trouble getting to #2.. you can make sure the key is off.. unclip the big electrical connector and remove it temporarily, then use a small box wrench to break free the #2 screw, re-install the connector and then complete the procedure. Don't forget to go back and tighten down #2 when all done :<)
PS. for my 2 cents.. getting a Spiegler SS set for the whole bike is a great investment as it seems we have a lot of LT's with a few years on them that experienced a leak or failure of the lined rubber ones.. and once you go SS.. never more :<)
Bill,

On the earlier bikes #2 is not up top like ours but on the opposite side in that little recessed pocket. You can only get to it with a socket and the BMW tool looks like this.
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2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #26 of 30 Old Nov 21st, 2009, 6:58 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Break help!

After testing it out I loaded up the wife and all her stuff she has to ride with and went on a 100 mile see how it does ride. Brakes were great. New tire was good. Hopefully I can get 10000 miles out of it too. I get mad at my bike when I have to work on it but I like working on it. Then after I finish and ride it again it makes it even better! I sure do thank you for your help. It made it a lot better knowing which bleeder to do. I see why you need the tool for the recessed one also. Next service will be around 25000 for me. Counting on everything being smooth until then. Thanks......

Ronnie
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post #27 of 30 Old Jan 30th, 2010, 2:08 am
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Re: Break help! - The Saga is OVER...

After sending my Integral ABS unit to www.bmwabs.com over two months ago, it is not repairable... The folks at bmwabs.com are very nice and easy to work with. They had several people trying to figure out the problem. They even got a retire aerospace engineer to work on the unit. They put in a lot of hours, but I am having them send it back broken, I just can't wait anymore.

I am forced to buy a new one from the dealer... I have the K/Y ready when I get f**ked for FULL RETAIL. Called a few dealers around the country and not one of them would give me any kind of discount.

Tvguy
'16 R1200RT - "Golden Eye"
'11 R1200RT - "Night Fury" SOLD
'02 K1200LTE - "The Silver Bullet" SOLD

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post #28 of 30 Old Jan 30th, 2010, 10:32 am
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Re: Break help!

Jeff,

Thanks for the "final" post. I didn't think there was a good solution for these as I understand the complexity of the unit. Looks like we will all eventually hit this point as these bikes age. It kind of hurts the guys that find something they like and want to stick with it as long as possible. Costs will eventually win and it will be cheaper just to buy a new bike. I feel your pain.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #29 of 30 Old Feb 5th, 2010, 11:37 pm
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Cool Re: Break help!

Thanks John,

I was planning to buy a '09 RT, but that plan got all shot to hell. I got a part time gig at UNLV working with the public affairs department as an editor helping to get videos out to the news stations and other viewers.... BUT, after three days I got laid off... budget cuts. The school system is 900 million in the hole... That was my RT money

So, I will fix the LT and hope for a good year, then sell it and pick up an RT.

Tvguy
'16 R1200RT - "Golden Eye"
'11 R1200RT - "Night Fury" SOLD
'02 K1200LTE - "The Silver Bullet" SOLD

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post #30 of 30 Old Feb 6th, 2010, 3:28 pm
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Re: Break help!

Re: Dealer prices, Chicago BMW still gave the 20% discount on the ABS unit for my 2000.
It still stings ($1800), but the discount helps. Been working fine for the last 4000 miles.

Jim H.

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