Trans & Final Drive Maint. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 32 Old Nov 4th, 2009, 9:47 pm Thread Starter
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Trans & Final Drive Maint.

I'm looking for some advice on trans & final drive service (2007 K1200LT). I've changed engine oil several times with no real issues, but have not tackled the trans & final drive. I am still intimidated by the engineering. These were both performed at the 24K service at SE Michigan BMW (great dealership) and since I've moved to the Houston area. I think it's time to save the $$$ and the closest dealer isn't close. Here are my questions:
1) What gear oil should I run?
2) Do trans & FD use the same lube and should I make the trip to a BMW store and buy BMW products. I have seen several posts for motor oil and see several using automotive oils (Mobil 1 etc). Can regular gear lube be used?
3) What time & surprises should I expect first time?

Thanks for the help, I am always amazed at the knowledge and information available through this community.

Fred
The Woodlands, TX
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post #2 of 32 Old Nov 4th, 2009, 10:23 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

I’ll start with the most important aspect…

STOP PAYING FOR ROUTINE SERVICES!!!

Having just been down the road of gearbox & clutch replacement, FD removal and installation. It really was an eye opener as to how easy and well thought out the scooter was to work on. I am by no means a wrench turner by trade. This was the first time I’ve opened anything up to that extent. As a first timer, I’d suggest you support your local “NON” dealer. Namely, Beemerboneyard.com HERE has everything you’ll need for a 12/24K service in one package. No, drive to the dealer, where they tell you that they have to special order it. I have used them almost exclusively because their price and service as well as quality seem to be top notch. Something we expect of the stealers but rarely get.
1) What gear oil should I run? 75W90 syn or dino personal preference. I will say that if you run synthetic in an older (mine, she’s a Y2K) you may develop a slow leak in the seals (GB/FD)…no real issue as long as you watch it.
2) Do trans & FD use the same lube? Yip, no difference. You’ll find everyone has his or her own preference when it comes to oil. Pick what you want/like/have history with. Just make sure it meets the old gals expectations.
3) What time & surprises should I expect first time? Get a Clymer or a BMW repair manual (they can be downloaded on-line) or PM your email address, I’ll send it to you) (no comments from the asylum, needed ) Depending on your particulars basic Tupperware removal is definite. It’s all pretty straight forward. If you get in a bind, post and we will come…

The picture below is how far you will have traveled down the rabbit hole!
well maybe not quite that far... but close....
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'Stupidity has a knack of getting its way.' --Albert Camus
'05- K1200LT - Gretchen
R.I.P. - '00- K1200LTE- "Barbara" - Retired at 168K 9/2011
MOA, IBA, EXR & RCB and TMI

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post #3 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 2:52 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoswell
I’ll start with the most important aspect…


The picture below is how far you will have traveled down the rabbit hole!
well maybe not quite that far... but close....
I never came close to tearing mine down that far for a gearbox, FD oil and engine oil change!!! Sho likes to get a GOOD look at what he's working on.

Just a couple things to watch out for. You will need a 3/8" or 1/2" drive hex wrench in size 14mm or 9/16" in order to remove the plug on the transmission. Either one will work. Also, make sure you have a torque wrench so that everything settles in just right.

I used Royal Purple gear lube purchased at my local independent parts house for less than $15 per quart. 1 quart is enough. If you fill the gear box and FD to the proper levels you will still have a couple ozs. left.

It really is easy to do but I really appreciated having y Haynes manual handy.The gear box is only a tiny bit tricky in that you have to remove the exhaust hanger in order to get to the gearbox fill plug. Easy to do, and great pictures in the Haynes. The FD is dirt bag easy. The only trick is to have a container close to9 the bottom plug so that when you open it fluid doesn't spill all over and make a mess.

Just thought of one other tool that makes the job just plain pleasant. Get a MC lifting table. Your back will thank you forever and so will your knees!

Good luck and have fun!

Loren

WAK1200LT
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post #4 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 5:33 am
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Thumbs up Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

I bought my first LT with out looking into the maintenance costs, major sticker shock when I did. I heard about the maintenance video's made by Paul
Sayegh and bought the first one and once I watched it I immediately bought the rest of the series. They are great. He's walks you through just about everything. After that all I had to do was buy a few tools that I didn't have and start turning wrenches.

http://www.sayegh.org/bmw/service-video.htm

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post #5 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 6:26 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

i change my final drive gear oil every oil change. i'm do to tackle the transmission fluid, but i haven't done it yet. i usually do my trans fluid every second oil change. i heard the trans. fluid is a snap also. same fluid.
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post #6 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 8:58 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

If you have never done them the best advice I can give is always open the FILLER port before you drain the fluid. It is real hard to turn the bike upside down to re-fill if you can't get it open.


It also make the outflow a smoother stream which cuts down on spilling. And yes the first time you do the tranny the fluid will go where you least expect it.

John
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
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post #7 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 9:39 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

One final item you will need for the transmission fluid change is a funnel to direct the fluid into a catch container. What works great is to cut a quart sized oil container vertically in half. It fits perfectly in the limited space you have under the drain plug and the screw top neck becomes the end of the funnel. I went with Mobil 1 synthetic when I changed the fluid on my '07 LT and noticed in immediate improvement in the smoothness of the shift. Good luck!

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post #8 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 9:44 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Just don't drop the drain plug in it or it will block the mouth of the bottle, then guess what happens to the oil. BTDT.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #9 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 9:58 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

My local BMW dealer gets $21.00 for an oil filter. I can get a six pack of bosch oil filters from Rock Auto for $27.00 and that includes shipping. Check out their website.

Kurt
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post #10 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 10:01 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

If you can change the oil and filter then you can change the transmission and final drive. Wealth of information here (with pics!). Look and see if anyone is having a tech session in your area; seeing it done always helps.

Best of luck!

Adam
2006 K1200LT 2001 Kawi KLR650
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post #11 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 10:06 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Wanna keep your garage floor lookin' spiffy, drop by Wal-Mart and in the pet section, pick up a 24-count package of puppy training pads. One or two under the scoot will catch most 'awchits'!! And folks use a variety of measuring tools for the oil and lube, I use a coupla baby bottles, with the nipples trimmed slightly. They are way easy to measure oz/ml and insert into the fill hole for the tranny and the rear drive.

Good luck and welcome to Tejas and the LT visitation playground!
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post #12 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 12:15 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

+ 1 on the baby bottles


Also I use a piece of Celotex Insulating Sheathing under my motorcycle to catch the drippin's . I got a 4x8 sheet of 1/2 Celotex , & cut it in to 16"x36" piece's ...or so ... The stuff really sucks up oil . One piece lasts a long long time .

I had a piece of it under my R1100GS when I was changing the oil . I was done draining the oil , so I took the drain pan out . Then I put a qt. in . No catch pan , &...no drain plug , then my wife say's soups on ...Well ,I didn't notice my Bobu .... So I go in to eat , come out after to finish the job .... Well ...I find the drain plug and go ....shoot-E-Darn ... As it turned out the Celotex sucked up the hole qt. . Not a drop on the flour .

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2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #13 of 32 Old Nov 5th, 2009, 8:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Thanks for all of the good advice. I will try to tackle it this weekend, although the weather looks like it's more like riding weather! I had a Clymers manual, but haven't found it after the move.

A few additional questions:
I have about 5K left on my warranty. Will running non BMW lubes affect the warranty? I used to run AmsOil in V-twins with good results, but never see much about it here in Beemer land. Is Mobil 1 just an engine oil option, or trans & FD compatible? will the front of the hydroelectric center stand need to be removed to get to the tranny drain plug.

Again, thanks for all the support & suggestions. I really like the site and am awed by the amount of knowledge and friendly sharing. It's obvious this is a RIDRES forum and that is great. I will report back with my results.

FK

I
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post #14 of 32 Old Nov 6th, 2009, 10:42 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

To answer your question, use of fluids other than BMW will not alter your warranty coverage. The only exception would be if for some reason BMW could prove it was the fluids that caused a failure. This is the same in automotive warranties.

One other consideration regarding synthetic fluids. BMW recommends waiting until around 18K before switching to synthetic oil. This gives the rings adequate time to seat. I mention this because I notice you have an '07 LT, but you didn't mention how many miles you have on it.

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post #15 of 32 Old Nov 7th, 2009, 8:13 am Thread Starter
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Thanks I have just over 30,000 great miles. Switching to synthetic shouldn't be a problem.
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post #16 of 32 Old Nov 7th, 2009, 8:54 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

I use AmsOil in the FD and transmission, good old fashioned Dino Castrol 20-50w or 10-40w in winter.

While I am a Synth fan I also question the need on a water cooled motor, and more so on the seals in these bikes. I was going to change to synth at 18K but have since dropped that plan as an experiment in seal life with Dino. Also using Dino I can afford to change every 3000 miles which to some is excessive, but to me not at all.

Go for the services they are not that bad, FD is cake, Oil can be messy unless you use the loosen while holding in place, and crack a corner to control flow, Tranny, the exhaust bracket is a pain the first time and having some kind of tray to direct flow. I use tin foil to make a tray. Others the oil filter box and many other things.

John is correct in removing the fills before the drains, both for better flow on drain and to be sure you do not have to turn your bike upside down to fill.

Take it out for a good long ride, bring it home and drop the fluids hot.

My bike has not seen a dealer since the 600 mile and even then they only wanted to change the oil, I had them do the FD and Tranny too. Break in is break in, could not imagine doing them too to get manufacturing particles out.

Go for it, it is rewarding and saves you big money.

Lee
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post #17 of 32 Old Mar 20th, 2010, 10:16 am Thread Starter
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Thanks for the good advice in this forum, I finally got around to changing the transmission, just waited till the next service. Looks like I made it more difficult than it needed to be as I dropped the bolts out of the support for the center stand motor and moved it forward. I had printed this method a while ago.. Still not much room to get a torque wrench in place.

After looking at the posts from Hans it looks like you don't need to move all that, so whatever ribbing I get is deserved. So if you just remove the bracket for the exhaust and use a 14mm box end & 14mm allen, you have to gauge the torque, correct?

I have a few final warranty issues like low fuel sensor to get addressed and after that will do whatever I can myself. A tech session for tupperware removal would probably do me good and I'd volunteer my 07 for it should there be anything planned.

Thanks again,

Fred
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post #18 of 32 Old Mar 20th, 2010, 10:35 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fwkraft
Thanks for the good advice in this forum, I finally got around to changing the transmission, just waited till the next service. Looks like I made it more difficult than it needed to be as I dropped the bolts out of the support for the center stand motor and moved it forward. I had printed this method a while ago.. Still not much room to get a torque wrench in place.

After looking at the posts from Hans it looks like you don't need to move all that, so whatever ribbing I get is deserved. So if you just remove the bracket for the exhaust and use a 14mm box end & 14mm allen, you have to gauge the torque, correct?

You use a torque wrench to torque the fasteners down. You can buy 3/8" or 1/2" drive hex wrenches of suitable size at Autozone. I bought a 9/16 hex wrench at the local Ace Hardware store and cut off a 2" length which I then glued into a 9/16" 3/8" drive socket. Connects right up to the torque wrench. Click! Done!

I have a few final warranty issues like low fuel sensor to get addressed and after that will do whatever I can myself. A tech session for tupperware removal would probably do me good and I'd volunteer my 07 for it should there be anything planned.

Thanks again,

Fred
'

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post #19 of 32 Old Mar 20th, 2010, 7:58 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Yes you done did over thunk it.

I went for a 100 mile ride today and then came home and changed oil and transmission.

Trust me the fist time is the worst

It still is a PITA but I did mine in about 90 minuets today. I clean all threads screw etc with a brass brush. And I clean everything spotless that is taken off and the underside of the bike that becomes exposed. Or what you slop gear oil all over

And no matter how good you are you are gonna spill some transmission fluid Cover under your pan and work area. I use a low flat Rubbermaid round oil pan and a 1 gallon Tide bottle I sliced down for a funnel. The slop up rag is nice on the center stand and frame and metal parts in general on the bottom of the bike so I use it to wipe her belly clean and my lift where the center stand hits it.

I also change my oil and transmission and final drive each time. I use Dino oil, and Mobile 1 for the transmission and final drive. I try every 4-5000 miles.

I also use 1 teaspoon of M Gear Additive to the FD, and 1 tablespoon in the transmission.
http://www3.dowcorning.com/DataFiles...c8800021d7.pdf

This is the second change of each and I was impressed on the transmission plug it was very light paste and not gritty. I have seen bigger pieces in the first few changes Not boulders but more than paste. Of course you always wonder what might have got washed off in the three hand Monty exchange of holding the transmission plug tight, get your home made funnel over your drain pan, and then getting the plug out of the stream, without messing with your funnel

FD is always just a light fuzz but It too appears to be a smaller consistency, and of course molly turns it black, both oils come out black with Molly in them.

Anyway you will get better at it no worries, and save a bunch of money

As said a lift is a big help, but an old moving pad doubled over and laying on it is not bad either

Lee
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post #20 of 32 Old Mar 20th, 2010, 8:11 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

>>> A tech session for tupperware removal would probably do me good and I'd volunteer my 07 for it should there be anything planned <<<

http://www.snafu.org/pics/k12lt/print.html
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post #21 of 32 Old Mar 20th, 2010, 9:27 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Just bought fluids today for the 18K service.

Castrol 20W50 4T
Wix oil filter 51348
Royal Purple 75W90 for the trans and final drive
Prestone antifreeze No silicate formula

2 nights at work and then the service.

Loren

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post #22 of 32 Old Mar 22nd, 2010, 11:06 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Those of you with the electric center stand, I have no idea what you are doing to change the transmission fluid, but there is just no way that I can get my 1/2" drive 14mm hex wrench in there without dropping the center stand motor. Did this yesterday at 12k (ok 13k ), what a pain! Anyhow, I put synthetic in so I don't see this happening again for another 24k. On the other hand, the FD was so easy, one could do it every time you fill the gas tank.

Oh, one final thought: I WILL NEVER DO THIS AGAIN WITHOUT A LIFT!!!

'15 GTLE


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post #23 of 32 Old Mar 22nd, 2010, 2:29 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

I would recommend changing the final drive fluid every oil change. It is small insurance and lets you see how much crud has accumulated.

I'm sure you've seen it, but, THIS is an excellent source for step by step oil, tranny and final drive oils change.

Even though I've done it "too many" times, I still use this as my guide.

Good luck.

Joe

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post #24 of 32 Old Mar 22nd, 2010, 3:11 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joegottberg
I would recommend changing the final drive fluid every oil change. It is small insurance and lets you see how much crud has accumulated.

I'm sure you've seen it, but, THIS is an excellent source for step by step oil, tranny and final drive oils change.

Even though I've done it "too many" times, I still use this as my guide.

Good luck.

Joe
I've even gone as far as printing this out, and along with the Tupperware removal procedure, laminating it and storing it in a binder for step by step directions. Together with my Clymers manual, it makes a great resource.

FWIW, I use the RockAuto Bosch filters (after removing the silly label) and all synthetic fluids. 45K and all running well!

Rob V.B.
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post #25 of 32 Old Mar 22nd, 2010, 4:47 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Hey LAF, my first instinct was to question your using any additive, as I've always believed that if you're using a quality product, you shouldn't need to add anything. Then I took a look at the product you linked. Had a good laugh at myself. I use a product called Schaeffer Oil, and what you're adding, is what Schaeffer uses in all their products. Interesting.

And just for a thought, I use a squirt type oil can (trigger pump) to fill my final drive and tranny. Narry a drop spilt!
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post #26 of 32 Old Mar 25th, 2010, 8:09 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

I've used the exact reference guide that Joe shows in his response + Clymers. Good stuff. I have not figured out how to get a 3/8 or 1/2 ratchet even with a cut down 14mm up there without dropping the center stand motor assembly out of the way. That's why I was asking, there always seems to be an easier way that someone comes up with.

Learning every day.

FK
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post #27 of 32 Old Mar 25th, 2010, 9:09 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

FW...
Hey.. on my '05, I just pull off the bolts off of the " center muffler support "... the bracket comes off and you can use a sawed off 14mm wrench and 14mm combination wrench to spin off the gearbox plug.
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post #28 of 32 Old Mar 25th, 2010, 10:15 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

I must have got lucky with mine. I think my 14mm was a HF set and it fits (with appropriate jiggle) without cutting it off.

Maybe you can make yourself a little gage of the maximum length it can be and try to match it up.

Joe

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post #29 of 32 Old Mar 30th, 2010, 1:27 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joegottberg
I must have got lucky with mine. I think my 14mm was a HF set and it fits (with appropriate jiggle) without cutting it off.

Joe
I bought a HF socket and drove the 14mm out of the socket. Then used a box end wrench to accomplish the job. Was one tight SOB. (the drain bolt) Was about to give up when it finally came lose.
Question: Is there supposed to be a nut on the backside of the exhaust clamp mount? (the two wire looking thingy) When starting the re-assembly noticed there were no threads anywhere to put the bolt back in. And the 1st two threads on the bolt were buggered. (?)
Still looking for a nut laying around. And yes, this is my first time doing the tranny oil change.

BMW 1200 LTC 2002


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post #30 of 32 Old Mar 30th, 2010, 2:50 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razmataz
I bought a HF socket and drove the 14mm out of the socket. Then used a box end wrench to accomplish the job. Was one tight SOB. (the drain bolt) Was about to give up when it finally came lose.
Question: Is there supposed to be a nut on the backside of the exhaust clamp mount? (the two wire looking thingy) When starting the re-assembly noticed there were no threads anywhere to put the bolt back in. And the 1st two threads on the bolt were buggered. (?)
Still looking for a nut laying around. And yes, this is my first time doing the tranny oil change.

Can't help there, I got me a Remus

2005 KLT "Old Blue"

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post #31 of 32 Old Mar 30th, 2010, 7:52 pm
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

IIRC the nut is captive in the bracket on the exhaust. The wire sleeve fits between two parts and the back part (top part) has the captive nut.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #32 of 32 Old Jul 11th, 2010, 9:37 am
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Re: Trans & Final Drive Maint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoswell
I’ll start with the most important aspect…

STOP PAYING FOR ROUTINE SERVICES!!!

Having just been down the road of gearbox & clutch replacement, FD removal and installation. It really was an eye opener as to how easy and well thought out the scooter was to work on. I am by no means a wrench turner by trade. This was the first time I’ve opened anything up to that extent. As a first timer, I’d suggest you support your local “NON” dealer. Namely, Beemerboneyard.com HERE has everything you’ll need for a 12/24K service in one package. No, drive to the dealer, where they tell you that they have to special order it. I have used them almost exclusively because their price and service as well as quality seem to be top notch. Something we expect of the stealers but rarely get.
1) What gear oil should I run? 75W90 syn or dino personal preference. I will say that if you run synthetic in an older (mine, she’s a Y2K) you may develop a slow leak in the seals (GB/FD)…no real issue as long as you watch it.
2) Do trans & FD use the same lube? Yip, no difference. You’ll find everyone has his or her own preference when it comes to oil. Pick what you want/like/have history with. Just make sure it meets the old gals expectations.
3) What time & surprises should I expect first time? Get a Clymer or a BMW repair manual (they can be downloaded on-line) or PM your email address, I’ll send it to you) (no comments from the asylum, needed ) Depending on your particulars basic Tupperware removal is definite. It’s all pretty straight forward. If you get in a bind, post and we will come…

The picture below is how far you will have traveled down the rabbit hole!
well maybe not quite that far... but close....
Reading your message gave relief to my increasing anxiety about LT repairs. I was rear-ended 6/14 and my BMW dealer, in addition to $5800 of repairs, suggests a $1600 lost of 36k maintenance schedule work. The rear wheel spoke has a black greasy-looking substance covering it that the dealer fears is coming from the final drive, but won't know until he gets in there.
I would love to get a download of the Clymer Manual if possible. I'm new to looking under the tupperware, but I love the LT and will drop down in the rabbit hole out of love. I'm reachable at [email protected].
Thanks a ton,
Robert
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