Need help with no start problem - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 10:02 am Thread Starter
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Need help with no start problem

Hi All

I hope someone can help. I have a 2003 K1200LT with 22K mile on her. as far as info on the bike it had a oil change at 19K. I live in NJ and was on my way to Ga. last night and got 300 miles on my trip going about 75 mph when the bike died. I had filled up on fuel a short time before she died but so had alot of other vehicle so I don't think it's bad fuel and she cranks but doesn't start. The battery is good. What is the first thing I should start checking. Very new to BMW bike.... Lost

Thanks for any and all responses
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post #2 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 10:48 am
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Re: Need help with no start problem

Do a search on cannisterectomy. I would guess you put too much fuel in. Did you hear a sucking sound when you took the gas cap off? FInd the vent hose that goes from the tank to the cannister and unhook it. That should let it start until you can read up on the removal. I don't remember right now but I think there is a connection somewhere in the middle of that line under the seat that you can get to pretty easy.

One other thing it might be, and I know because this happened to me, the fuel line may have came off the fuel filter in the tank. You can hear the fuel pump blowing bubbles if that is the problem.

Good luck.
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post #3 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 12:51 pm
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Unhappy Re: Need help with no start problem

Most likely you over filled the bikes gas tank - very common problem.

There are two hoses that run from the top of the gas tank in front of the filling spout.
One is connected to the rubber material that surrounds your filling spout this is to drain over flows and the other is a vent which is connected to the top of the tank. Try to lift the rubber material towards the front of the bike and look for the vent hose. They are both the same size and black color. Once you find it if you cannot pull it off - cut it and repair it later.

This should allow your tank to vent properly and you will be off and riding again.

When gas drains back to the canister it locks it up and stops the unit from handling fuel vapors. As you use gas there is no vent in the gas tank and you will eventually starve the suction side of the fuel pump and potentially collapse portions of the gas tank. It is also known that as the fuel tank collapses it also destroys the gas gauge mechanism.

All this trying to pinch a few extra drops of gas - what were the BMW engineers thinking!!

Dan Finazzo
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post #4 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 1:30 pm
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Lightbulb Re: Need help with no start problem

Just my .02 cents worth.........if in fact you did over fill the tank with gas and the cannister is now plugged, just remove the gas cap and it should start. Listen carefully as you remove the cap to see if you can hear air being sucked into the tank past the cap. I removed my back seat (2 scews ) and removed the hose to the cannister and stuck it down through the bike to vent to the ground. My cannister is still there but not being used. Solved the problem before it occured, in my case. Thanks to the info on this board.

Hope you get 'er started.

Vern


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Bought used K1200LT number 3. This one is green/teal with 31,369(now 7/29/2018 54,143) miles and is an '02. The first 2 bikes made it to near 150,000 miles.
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post #5 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 2:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help with no start problem

Thanks for all your tips

This is where I'm at right now I've removed the hoses from the cannister. I tried to start the bike but still no start. It cranks fine but won't run or even act like it wants to start. I'm trying to get to the plug's so as to check for condition. Maybe there wet with fuel or to see if I get spark but can't seem to see where there at. Anyone know what the best way to get to them is?

Again thanks for the help still lost
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post #6 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 2:56 pm
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Re: Need help with no start problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin
Hi All

I hope someone can help. I have a 2003 K1200LT with 22K mile on her. as far as info on the bike it had a oil change at 19K. I live in NJ and was on my way to Ga. last night and got 300 miles on my trip going about 75 mph when the bike died. I had filled up on fuel a short time before she died but so had alot of other vehicle so I don't think it's bad fuel and she cranks but doesn't start. The battery is good. What is the first thing I should start checking. Very new to BMW bike.... Lost

Thanks for any and all responses
When the bike died, was it sudden and absolute, or did it lose power, sputter, then die?

Assuming it was a sudden death:

Fundamentals: Check the fuel pump fuse to verify it is not blown (either check it for continuity or swap another fuse in -- they can look "ok" but still be blown).

When you turn the bike's ignition key on (with the kill swtich in the run position), do you hear the fuel pump run for 2-3 seconds? If not, I'd suspect something as simple as a blown fuse or the fuel pump electrical plug having come loose from the connector at the tank. If no pump noise and the fuse is ok, you'll need to pull the right upper fairing panel to eye-ball the pump connector under the right rear corner of the tank. Once under there, if

If teh above doesn't do it, next is: Do you have spark? Pull one of the spark plugs, lay it against the valve cover to ground the plug, and turn the motor over -- you should see a spark. If not, I'd suspect a Hall Effect Sensor (HES -- the ignition trigger) failure. I actually doubt that at 22K. The early K-bike HES units (1980's-09s) were prone to fail, but the K12s have been good.

Let us know what you find.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #7 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 2:58 pm
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Re: Need help with no start problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin
Thanks for all your tips

This is where I'm at right now I've removed the hoses from the cannister. I tried to start the bike but still no start. It cranks fine but won't run or even act like it wants to start. I'm trying to get to the plug's so as to check for condition. Maybe there wet with fuel or to see if I get spark but can't seem to see where there at. Anyone know what the best way to get to them is?

Again thanks for the help still lost
The spark plugs are under the beauty between the two "humps" of the valve cover -- of course, behind the left side tupperware panels.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #8 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 3:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help with no start problem

Hi

Yes when it died I was going about 75 mph. I came to a stop and then it would crank but that is all it did.

I just check for power at the pump and I got both power and ground at the connection.
When I turn on the key the power comes on for about two or more seconds. So my next thing would be the spark plugs. Please understand I don't have a book so I am working with what ever info you give me. If you can let me know what is the best way to get to the plugs and the Hall Effect Switch that would be great. I am working on getting a manual for this bike ASAP!!!!

Thanks for all the help
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post #9 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 3:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help with no start problem

Hi

To get to the spark plugs do I need to remove the gas tank? Just asking because that seem to be the only way as far as I can tell. Maybe someone knows a better way.

Thanks for the tips
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post #10 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 4:19 pm
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Re: Need help with no start problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin
Hi

To get to the spark plugs do I need to remove the gas tank? Just asking because that seem to be the only way as far as I can tell. Maybe someone knows a better way.

Thanks for the tips
Just to confirm -- you have power at the pump, does the pump actually operate?

FWIW, I really doubt it's the HES; it typcally dies intermittantly before failing completely.

The tank does not need to come off to get to the spark plugs -- they (like the cylinder head) point straight out to the left side of the bike; the bottom of the tank is above this level.

Before pulling the plugs, I would check to see whether you are actually getting fuel flow from the tank into the fuel rail -- just because the fuel pump is working, doesn't mean the fuel is getting out of the tank.

Question: Has the fuel filter been replaced recently?

Why do I ask? One possibility is that the hose from the in-tank fuel filter has slipped off -- if that happens, the fuel pump simply recycles the fuel in the tank (sucks it into the pump, through the downstream filter, and right back into the tank).

Another possibility is a split fuel filter -- not common, but it happens; same result -- all fuel pressure relieved directly back into the tank.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #11 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 5:14 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Need help with no start problem

Hi Mark thanks for all your help

The last thing you said was right on the money. Fuel filter is disconnected from the pump.
Also the sending unit show sign of being crushed by the tank. So I will disconnect the purge cannister by disconnecting both line going to it and plug the one that comes from the left side of the bike correct. Then I will replace the fuel filter and try to start it.
How does that sound to you?

Again thank you for all your response's
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post #12 of 12 Old Aug 16th, 2009, 6:19 pm
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Re: Need help with no start problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin
Hi Mark thanks for all your help

The last thing you said was right on the money. Fuel filter is disconnected from the pump.
Also the sending unit show sign of being crushed by the tank. So I will disconnect the purge cannister by disconnecting both line going to it and plug the one that comes from the left side of the bike correct. Then I will replace the fuel filter and try to start it.
How does that sound to you?

Again thank you for all your response's
Great -- glad you finally have an end to the mystery!

In theory, if you leave the canister purge solenoid valve connected, there is no need to plug the hose on the left going from the canister to the intake manifold (the solenoid valve does the same thing as the plug would). That said, I'd plug it anyway to ensure none of the charcoal slurry now in your canister migrates down the hose toward the intake.

Getting to the filter will be a pita (need to remove remove left & right upper tupperware panels, radio stingray, seat subframe, then the tank (including undoing the fuel disconnects), unscrew large ring around the fuel pump flange, then carefully extract the fuel pump/filter assembly from the tank). But, better to have to do a lot of work, than to have to resort to a long tow! BTW, when disconnecting and reassembling the quick disconnects, be sure to hold the release tabs all the way in until the parts are completely separated or reassembled -- the last thing you want after all this is to nick one of the QD o-rings and have a fuel leak from a QD!

If you can't simply wrap your hands around the pump flange retaining ring and get it to loosen, an oil filter strap wrench will get the job done.

Note: Mark the retaining ring before you remove it, so you know how far to tighten it back up.

Note2: One option to consider: Before beginning, buy a couple automotive hose clamps to positively secure the hose ends to the fuel filter nipples.

Note3: When you remove the fuel pump assembly, the rubber gasket around the base of the assembly may be swollen by the gasoline. If it gives you any difficulty going back in, leave it out for a couple hours and it will shrink back to size as it off-gasses the absorbed fuel.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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