Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 20 Old Aug 2nd, 2009, 8:29 pm Thread Starter
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Exclamation Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

First let me start by saying today was my first shakedown ride. New owner have had the bike a few weeks. Yesterday I changed the oil and filter, and final drive oil.

So I started by filling the tank with 93 octane and usually on a new bike will carry a small gas can of gas to feel the Miles to empty but with my new bike I thought I didn't need it because of the bike computer! You know where this is going. Well my fuel tank indicator showed half a tank and plum out of fuel. Luckily some very kind man stopped and drove me to the gas station about 10 miles away. Filled the tank with 1 gallon then drove to the gas station and she took 4.7 gallons. Does this sound right 5.5 gallons of gas at empty, I understand about the fuel density, it was hot 98F. Any thoughts where I need to start troubleshooting or is this a common LT issue? I will have to look at faulty fuel gauge. BTW it does show full when full and BC also shows countdown for fuel

Bike was also acting up about 60 miles from home. The bike was stalling at red lights or when in idol, and running rough. Running above 3000 rpm she did well. The bike just turned 19000miles. Any input on the rough idling and stalling.

To top off the evening had a screw in the rear tire which is practically new. LOL It was a shakedown ride

Thanks in advance

2000 BMW K1200LT
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post #2 of 20 Old Aug 2nd, 2009, 8:46 pm
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetfumes
Well my fuel tank indicator showed half a tank and plum out of fuel. Luckily some very kind man stopped and drove me to the gas station about 10 miles away. Filled the tank with 1 gallon then drove to the gas station and she took 4.7 gallons. Does this sound right 5.5 gallons of gas at empty. Any thoughts where I need to start troubleshooting or is this a common LT issue? I will have to look at faulty fuel gauge. BTW it does show full when full and BC also shows countdown for fuel

Bike was also acting up about 60 miles from home. The bike was stalling at red lights or when in idol, and running rough. Running above 3000 rpm she did well. The bike just turned 19000miles. Any input on the rough idling and stalling.

To top off the evening had a screw in the rear tire which is practically new. LOL It was a shakedown ride
As far as the screw in the tire, I thought that only happened to me when I bought new tires for anything!

It sounds like the fuel tank may have been overfilled, not necessarily by you, causing the canister under the rear seat to fill with fuel, and then the tank to collapse enough to prevent the float in the tank to be able to rise and fall all the way. Do you hear a whoosh when removing the fuel cap? If so the lines to the canister, or the canister itself are plugged. Make sure when fueling to do so with the LT on the sidestand and only fill to the nozzle ring in the top of the tank. If the tank has collapsed and is in the path of the float, I'm not sure what you can do to fix it, if anything. Someone more learned than I will be along shortly. My LT goes 300+/- miles on a full tank. "Get fuel now, dummy" light comes on with 50 miles left to walking on the BC. The light may be tied to the float in the tank, since yours didn't come on.

Lee
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post #3 of 20 Old Aug 2nd, 2009, 9:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

LOL on the tire, but at least I didn't have to repair on the road. My tires carry magnets to attract metal objects that puncture.

So what is this canister? Do I need to remove the tank?

Thanks

2000 BMW K1200LT
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post #4 of 20 Old Aug 2nd, 2009, 9:45 pm
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

I agree with Lee, Sounds like the canister is glogged.The canister is under the top case behind the rear seat. The sending unit can be fixed as it is a soft metal tube that you can work the dints out with a long screw driver from inside the tube. Just be careful.
or just buy one of THESE
CLICK HERE for canister removal.

Stevie Shreeve

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post #5 of 20 Old Aug 2nd, 2009, 10:35 pm
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

+1 on the tank vent blockage -- the stalling behavior fits in with this scenario.

As the tank level drops, the vacuum in the tank increases (because no air is entering as it should through the vent hose). At some point, the fuel pump can no longer overcome the vacuum (i.e., the pump begins to have trouble sucking fuel into its inlet), and pressure in the fuel rail downstream of the pump begins to drop -- the actual cause of the engine stumbling/stalling.

A prime candidate for a canisterectomy!

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post #6 of 20 Old Aug 2nd, 2009, 10:38 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

Yes when I removed the gas cap it sucked in air so a vacuum was created. Does any one have pictures of the canister removal?

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post #7 of 20 Old Aug 2nd, 2009, 10:46 pm
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetfumes
Yes when I removed the gas cap it sucked in air so a vacuum was created. Does any one have pictures of the canister removal?
I haven't been around the site for a couple years, so there may be more recent pictures. In the meantime, the Hall of Wisdom has a few links to the procedure and cautions/reasons for doing/not doing things:

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/faq.php?...how_faq_tsfuel

Item #10.

HTH,

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #8 of 20 Old Aug 2nd, 2009, 11:16 pm
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

[QUOTE=mneblett]I haven't been around the site for a couple years,

Mark, Nice to see you back, Sharing info just like before.

Brian Ley
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USA where everything is illegal
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post #9 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 1:22 am
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Lightbulb Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

FYI on the fuel gauge... Its a piece of crap! I have had my 2002 fixed 5 times and it goes right back to broken. It will work for a few weeks then die. It will go to full and make its way down, then gets stuck just above the 1/4 tank mark. The dealer has tried everything they can think of but nothing is working. I am not sure about the 2000 but my '02 hold 6.1 gallons of fuel (at the top of the fuel cap) Make sure you disconnect or remove the canister before filling it up that full.

Tvguy
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post #10 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 1:29 am
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

[QUOTE=sanjaun2]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
I haven't been around the site for a couple years,

Mark, Nice to see you back, Sharing info just like before.
Thanks While I'm primarily playing over in the RT section now, I intend to still create havoc and confusion over here once in a while!

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #11 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 1:34 am
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvguy
FYI on the fuel gauge... Its a piece of crap! I have had my 2002 fixed 5 times and it goes right back to broken. It will work for a few weeks then die. It will go to full and make its way down, then gets stuck just above the 1/4 tank mark. The dealer has tried everything they can think of but nothing is working. I am not sure about the 2000 but my '02 hold 6.1 gallons of fuel (at the top of the fuel cap) Make sure you disconnect or remove the canister before filling it up that full.
Has the dealer ever pulled the fuel level sensor out of the tank??

The sensor is little more than a long sheet metal tube with a float inside. Typically, a collapsing tank dents the tank at -- guess where? the 1/4 level! The "fix" is simple: pull the sensor out of the top of the tank, and stick a rod or something equivalent up the tube and beat the dent back out! Not rocket science. I've yet to hear of a case where this didn't fix the sensor where a dent at 1/4 was found to be present.

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post #12 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 1:59 am
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

Oh Yes, they had the fuel level sensor out of the tank every time.
One time it was slightly dented, they fixed that. The next time they put in a whole new unit, etc. After all was done on the 5th try we all figured that there is an electrical issue some where in the system, maybe a short and a bad wire. I have just given up. I know that I need gas at around 200 miles.

Tvguy
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'11 R1200RT - "Night Fury" SOLD
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post #13 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 3:12 am
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

Jetfumes,

Never, never, never fill the gas tank full - this is the reason the canister gets gas in it and causes what appears to be your problem.

In 6 years I have had zero issues on my 2003 LT and still have my original canister as I only fill the tank up the where the gas just appears in the larger diameter section of the filler about 2 or 3" below the top of the filler.

Sounds like maybe the former owner may have been topping off!!

Dan Finazzo
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post #14 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 7:26 am
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

I removed mine at one of Howard's tech sessions, and never had to worry about it.

Just Go
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post #15 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 7:29 am
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

Sounds like a few isolated issues above..... Soon after I purchased my bike, I did the "Canisterdomety" and have not had a problem topping off the tank. The fuel meter works correctly and I generally get about 300 miles to a fill-up. Anecdotal, but most of the members of this forum report the same.

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post #16 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 8:52 pm Thread Starter
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Smile Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

You guys were right on the money!, and saved me a bunch of it as well.

Well it was easier than I had thought. Taking the trunk off was simple.
Canister was right there, and smelled of gas and had gas still in it. I went ahead and removed it, plugged the vacuum line with a golf tee and taped it down. The gas vent line ran it down the right side of the bike toward the swing arm.

She seems to be idling normal now.

I haven't tackled the fuel sensor, but will do that later in the week and try removing the dents and see how that works.

Does the fuel cell or tank stay permanently dented from this and if so is there anyway to pop it out??

Thanks again for the help

2000 BMW K1200LT
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post #17 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 11:01 pm
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
I removed mine at one of Howard's tech sessions, and never had to worry about it.
and so did I! Nary a problem since then, and I fill the thing very, very full - every time. 80k miles and no issues.

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post #18 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 11:08 pm
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetfumes
You guys were right on the money!, and saved me a bunch of it as well.

Well it was easier than I had thought. Taking the trunk off was simple.
Canister was right there, and smelled of gas and had gas still in it. I went ahead and removed it, plugged the vacuum line with a golf tee and taped it down. The gas vent line ran it down the right side of the bike toward the swing arm.

She seems to be idling normal now.

I haven't tackled the fuel sensor, but will do that later in the week and try removing the dents and see how that works.

Does the fuel cell or tank stay permanently dented from this and if so is there anyway to pop it out??

Thanks again for the help
It normally recovers almost immediately after the vacuum is released. The only thing that doesn't self-recover is the fuel level tube. In any event, you'll know as soon as you remove the right upper fairing panel whether the tank is still collapsed -- you should see the normal concave curved side of the black plastic fuel tank.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #19 of 20 Old Aug 3rd, 2009, 11:28 pm
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
and so did I! Nary a problem since then, and I fill the thing very, very full - every time. 80k miles and no issues.
Same here -- in fact, I am now in the habit of removing the canister immediately after taking possession of any new BMW (this was one of the first mods to the RT I picked up in May).

I've lost count of how many canisters have come off my or others' bikes (15? 20? dunno). Never a problem with any of them -- and more importantly, never a clogged vent/collapsed tank/stalling issue with any of them.

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post #20 of 20 Old Aug 4th, 2009, 8:13 am
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Re: Great ride with problems towards the end, anyone have insight to my issue?

This also sounds like the gas nozzle is denting the sending unit. I always place the nozzle into the filler tube with it parallel to the bike and the handle closest to the seat.
My sending unit had quite a few ding marks from the nozzle when I first removed it from the tank. The PO either didn't know it was there or where it was actually positioned so as not to be hitting it.

If you search "fuel sending unit" in the K1200LT forum (where this message is posted) you'll find lots of great info on this.

Here is a link that includes a picture of how I straightened out my sending unit tube.

HTH,
Jer

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