HELP NEEDED - Final Drive - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 21 Old Jul 31st, 2009, 6:54 pm Thread Starter
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HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

I am working on a member's 2002 K1200LT Final Drive. We noticed it was leaking gear oi inside the final drive boot and we are replacing the Pinion Shaft bearing and seal (that is, the seal and bearing inside the "neck" of the final drive (see photos). In the photos you will see that I have removed the "threaded ring" and the "Thrust Ring" - with a little heat, they both came out..no problem.

Next, the manual says "use a magnet and reach inside the final drive cavity and remove the pinion shaft bearing OUTER race" (clymer). The BMW manual just says, "remove outer race" ARG!!!!!!!

I have used every magnet I have and NOTHING moves on this outer race. What gives? Any advice????? Any tips on removing it and replacing the bearing?
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Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
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Last edited by cccpastorjack; Jul 31st, 2009 at 7:01 pm.
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post #2 of 21 Old Jul 31st, 2009, 8:51 pm
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Jack,
time for my stupid question of the day...

Can you gently pull on the input shaft and get the outer race to move? I have NEVER had one of these apart but I would suspect that there could possibly be a little free play in this assembly.

Roy

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post #3 of 21 Old Jul 31st, 2009, 9:14 pm
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

flip and tap/ drop housing onto a soft board. The mass should cause the pinion to drive the race out...

This isn't necessarily a "BFH" time...

you could also solidly tap the pinion in that direction...just to "shake" things up.

Remember gravity is your friend...
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post #4 of 21 Old Jul 31st, 2009, 10:35 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear
Jack,
time for my stupid question of the day...

Can you gently pull on the input shaft and get the outer race to move? I have NEVER had one of these apart but I would suspect that there could possibly be a little free play in this assembly.

Roy

Thanks for the suggestion and yes, I pulled gently and not so gently. Nothing moves. In reading the instructions, I am sure that I will have to remove the sideplate to facilitate removal of the pinion shaft and the INNER race of the bearing...just wondering why it would say to use a magnet and remove the outer race. I'm thinking I may have to re-heat the housing and try with another magnet.

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
Too many others to list...


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post #5 of 21 Old Jul 31st, 2009, 10:46 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
flip and tap/ drop housing onto a soft board. The mass should cause the pinion to drive the race out...

This isn't necessarily a "BFH" time...

you could also solidly tap the pinion in that direction...just to "shake" things up.

Remember gravity is your friend...

Thanks Deacon!!! You are the man!!!! Did it and it worked the first time!

Now...just one more question for everyone. The bearing (all components) look great...no visible wear. However, when we first noticed the seal was leaking, I intuitively grabbed the shaft and checked it for end play. It did seem to have some (not excessive), but I am wondering if that is normal since the bearing actually looks OK. Since that race is not a "press fit" wouldn't a bit of end play be expected?

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
Too many others to list...


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post #6 of 21 Old Jul 31st, 2009, 11:17 pm
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

You're welcome!

If the bearing is totally shiny, yeah.. keep running it. Which way was the "slack"? left/right or in/out?

With the load on the shaft, it should not flex, tho. While in there, make sure the ujoints are ok.. slack in them or if they are out of sync could cause wobble/vibration that would "work" the seal more than normal.

Remember to lube the seal and shaft up so it doesn't get scratched... One way to do that is to lube then wrap the shaft in one layer of thin paper. As you slide the parts together, the paper will keep the seal from getting scratched.
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post #7 of 21 Old Jul 31st, 2009, 11:36 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
You're welcome!

If the bearing is totally shiny, yeah.. keep running it. Which way was the "slack"? left/right or in/out?

With the load on the shaft, it should not flex, tho. While in there, make sure the ujoints are ok.. slack in them or if they are out of sync could cause wobble/vibration that would "work" the seal more than normal.

Remember to lube the seal and shaft up so it doesn't get scratched... One way to do that is to lube then wrap the shaft in one layer of thin paper. As you slide the parts together, the paper will keep the seal from getting scratched.
The "play" was side to side. The manual lists no procedure for checking it, nor does it even mention checking it after re-assembly. The more I consider it, the more I am convinced it is OK. If the outer race of the bearing is a loose enough fit that it will "fall" out when the housing is "bopped" how could there NOT be some side to side play in the shaft?

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
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post #8 of 21 Old Jul 31st, 2009, 11:53 pm
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Jack let me know if you need any indicators to check end play or side play. I have a drawer full of them in my tool box. I also have a new spare final drive to compare if need be.

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post #9 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 12:02 am Thread Starter
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddle-man
Jack let me know if you need any indicators to check end play or side play. I have a drawer full of them in my tool box. I also have a new spare final drive to compare if need be.

That is an offer I would love to take you up on! I know you have that thing "crated" and ready to go, but it doesn't sound like you're gonna be needing it anytime too soon I have been following your thread, but didn't have anything to offer to the suggestions given. If possible, i would love to swing by and just check (with my hand) the side to side movement (if any) of the pinion shaft on that final drive. Sure would put my mind to rest. Sorry I don't have any suggestions for your bike.

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
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post #10 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 12:19 am
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

I'll be home all day tomorrow. If i'm not in the garage just walk out back to the beach. I haven't cleaned it good since the 4th of july & want to get it done before it gets hot.

Dave Selvig
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post #11 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 12:30 am Thread Starter
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddle-man
I'll be home all day tomorrow. If i'm not in the garage just walk out back to the beach. I haven't cleaned it good since the 4th of july & want to get it done before it gets hot.
Thanks pal! If I come around 9 or so, is that too early? Mike has one on order and if yours verifies that the end play in his is normal, he wants to cancel that order of possible.

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
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post #12 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 12:48 am
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Thanks for your help in this Dave, it is appreciated.
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post #13 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 8:07 am
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

I'm headed to the garage right now. I'll check my new FD with a dial indicator.

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post #14 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 8:53 am
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Is a special tool or spanner wrench required to remove/re-install the threaded ring?

My final drive boot fills up with gear oil, too. I haven't determined yet if the culprit is the final drive pinion seal or the tranny output shaft seal, though.
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post #15 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 2:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by DasBoat2003
Is a special tool or spanner wrench required to remove/re-install the threaded ring?

My final drive boot fills up with gear oil, too. I haven't determined yet if the culprit is the final drive pinion seal or the tranny output shaft seal, though.

It does take a special spanner socket to remove the threaded ring. The socket was available at Autozone for a Ford 4wd if you can believe that!!! It fit perfectly!!!

Follow the manual and heat the housing properly (red loctite is on them from the factory) and the nut and ring will come right out. I used an Air Impact to remove mine, but was very careful NOT to strip either one out!

Mike is riding once again thanks to the fine folks on this forum! God bless and thanks again guys!

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
Too many others to list...


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post #16 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 5:12 pm
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
It does take a special spanner socket to remove the threaded ring. The socket was available at Autozone for a Ford 4wd if you can believe that!!! It fit perfectly!!!

Follow the manual and heat the housing properly (red loctite is on them from the factory) and the nut and ring will come right out. I used an Air Impact to remove mine, but was very careful NOT to strip either one out!

Mike is riding once again thanks to the fine folks on this forum! God bless and thanks again guys!
Congrats on a successful surgery

You have any more info on that Ford 4WD part number?

TIA

Lee
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post #17 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 6:19 pm
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Thumbs up Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
It does take a special spanner socket to remove the threaded ring. The socket was available at Autozone for a Ford 4wd if you can believe that!!! It fit perfectly!!!

Follow the manual and heat the housing properly (red loctite is on them from the factory) and the nut and ring will come right out. I used an Air Impact to remove mine, but was very careful NOT to strip either one out!

Mike is riding once again thanks to the fine folks on this forum! God bless and thanks again guys!
Maybe you could pass some of your good luck my way.

Dave Selvig
2004 Black LT
2000 Canon Red LT



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post #18 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 6:44 pm
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Dave, I certainly hope you find the problem with your bike and that it is something simple to fix.
I do appreciate the help this morning, and hopefully the FD stays dry. Time will tell.
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post #19 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 7:01 pm
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldan2
Dave, I certainly hope you find the problem with your bike and that it is something simple to fix.
I do appreciate the help this morning, and hopefully the FD stays dry. Time will tell.
Thanks Mike you know where there is a spare FD nearby if you ever need one.

Dave Selvig
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post #20 of 21 Old Aug 1st, 2009, 11:35 pm
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Do you have a part number for this?

quote "It does take a special spanner socket to remove the threaded ring. The socket was available at Autozone for a Ford 4wd if you can believe that!!! It fit perfectly!!!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
It does take a special spanner socket to remove the threaded ring. The socket was available at Autozone for a Ford 4wd if you can believe that!!! It fit perfectly!!!

Follow the manual and heat the housing properly (red loctite is on them from the factory) and the nut and ring will come right out. I used an Air Impact to remove mine, but was very careful NOT to strip either one out!

Mike is riding once again thanks to the fine folks on this forum! God bless and thanks again guys!

2012 K1600GT

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post #21 of 21 Old Aug 2nd, 2009, 8:57 am
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Re: HELP NEEDED - Final Drive

Jack,
Could you please post a picture of the spanner socket required for threaded ring removal? Autozone is a good source for special tools (they loan them, too).

My modified 30mm socket for FD and swing arm work was bought at Autozone. The socket was originally for the front axle nut of a car, I can't remember which one, though.

Thanks,
Dave
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