My Clutch Repair - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 28 Old Jul 18th, 2009, 7:51 pm Thread Starter
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My Clutch Repair

Thought I would start my own thread for my Clutch job that I'm finally digging into. My 2005 LT with 36K started slipping on May 2.
Dealer quoted ~$2200 for it and now that I'm most of the way in (I think) I'm seriously thinking it might have been worth it. But, what is done is done. What really got me was that they quoted me a price then said it would be an additional $350 to do the Slave. Huh? The entire transmission is out and its laying right there? Bolt it in and bleed it! Anyway, that one thing is what really got me turning the wrenches.

My parts list so far is up over $1000. I'm doing the engine and trans seals along with the slave and clutch parts. No reason to leave any of them original if I'm in this far. I think that is the consensus I've read as well.

Here is the bike in the Condor Chock before work started:



Yes the garage is crowded, get over it.

Here it is now stripped and supported:



One thing I did that was not per the instructions was remove the final drive assembly along with the cross bar in one piece. Not sure if I'll be able to reinstall like this but it kept me from breaking apart the pivot bearings and boot.




The slave was fine. No detectable leakage but the hose leading to it look bad and sounded worse when I moved it. I am going to replace it:



I'm currently ready (I think) to separate the transmission. It is only coming down as far as shown in this pic:



Can't find anything else it's hitting so I'm going to try an unbolt from here. If there are any suggestions or comments thus far I've got the computer in the garage and I'm checking regularly. If it should be dropping farther, let me know what I should check. I think I've followed all the steps I've read here plus the Clymer and BMW CD.

Many thanks to previous contributors for all the advice and guidance.

More soon,

Dan
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post #2 of 28 Old Jul 18th, 2009, 10:09 pm
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Are you using the service manual steps? If not, you can run into problems, and damage some components. Basically you need to follow the instructions pretty explicitly. There are a couple areas that can be skipped or modified after experience, but best to follow all the steps.

For the engine to drop down enough to get the transmission out, there are a couple of areas you have to check. First is the throttle position sensor, if you do not remove the fuel rail and throttle bodies it can hit the frame and prevent the engine from dropping low enough, risking damage to the sensor. The radiators have to be snapped out of their rubber holders so they can tilt.

Be sure you have the starter, alternator, and ground cables on the rear of the engine disconnected!

The transmission hits on the curved in section of the frame on the right side. You need to loosen the front engine mount bolts, and it helps a lot if you remove the right one and put a smaller rod through the hole to allow the rear of the engine transmission assembly to tilt to the left. I used smaller rods in BOTH front motor mount holes.

Another thing I did the first time I had my transmission out was to grind off about 1/8" of that inside curved frame area where the transmission hits. Glad I did too, the next time I had to remove the transmission it came out FAR easier!

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post #3 of 28 Old Jul 19th, 2009, 1:58 am
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Dan

Im doing mine same time and now on process to puting all back next week

Taking engine down was shallenge for me as well, and did no disconnection of any cables to alternator what so ever, just loosen forward engine bolts round by round and it will tilt down, mine did.
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post #4 of 28 Old Jul 19th, 2009, 11:11 am
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1200LT-TH
Dan

Im doing mine same time and now on process to puting all back next week

Taking engine down was shallenge for me as well, and did no disconnection of any cables to alternator what so ever, just loosen forward engine bolts round by round and it will tilt down, mine did.
The one wire that is likely to be broken is the ground wire to the engine. On my LT it was not long enough to lower the engine enough to remove the transmission without stressing it to the point of probably breaking the lug.

The others are likely long enough, but it is unwise to suggest this is OK on every LT, due to variations in routing, harness length, how much one lowers the engine, etc..

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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post #5 of 28 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 12:26 am Thread Starter
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Thanks for the responses. Did get all the electrical disconnected. Was having trouble getting the Transmission mounting lugs to clear the pan the ABS control sits in. A little pushing and shoving and things came down OK. Here is the support I'm using:




Here are the pictures of what I found on the inside:


And the clutch side:



Didn't find any leaks from any of the seals and no contamination evident on the surfaces. Just looks like the clutch is worn. The friction material is just proud of the rivets. Here is a shot of the surfaces and the friction material:


Really calls into question my riding style as opposed to any type of failure. To have a clutch completely worn at 36K has to be extraordinary. I'm sure I'm covering the clutch properly when required but I'm never on it when I'm riding. Must just be all the slow traffic I'm in taking it's toll on the material.

Question now is, "How much of this gets replaced?" If I replace both surfaces and the friction material, does the clutch housing get replaced along with the housing cover? Reference this picture. The Clymer keeps saying they are a matched set for balancing. Does this mean I have to replace both? The Clutch housing is $500!! I'll search around again, but what to you normally renew in this situation? If this were a case of contamination, the machined surfaces could still be salvagable. In my case I think they need to be at least resurfaced, but I'll bet that isn't possible.

Thanks for all help so far.

Dan
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post #6 of 28 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 12:34 am
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Re: My Clutch Repair

The housing is not a wear item just the two friction surfaces (pressure plate and housing cover).


Looks like maybe you slip the clutch too much on start out. I never have the RPM above 1200 - 1600 until the clutch is fully engaged and I am rolling. Then it is just in and out during shifts. I don't "cover" the clutch - only the brake.

John
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post #7 of 28 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 9:51 am
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Just assembled my on Saturday, I would suggest thet you cut away the little web behind the right foot peg to get the tranny back up to mounting holes. (see pictures) You will see the web I am talking about when you try to jack up the engine into place. There was NO way I could get it up without grinding off the web. It does nothing and is not structural. The footpeg covers it up so you don't even see what you did. Also, be very careful when you put the back-up cam and sensor back on the reverse shaft, the switches are VERY delicate, I broke the end off one of mine and now need to get the assembley, none in Canada @ $320.10 each.

Garry
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post #8 of 28 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 8:31 pm
 
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Dan,, Thanks for the write up and the pictures!! I am really learning allot along with you ..

If you can please continue with the pictures and follow on work...

Thanks very much..............Pete
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post #9 of 28 Old Jul 22nd, 2009, 1:54 pm
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Hi Dan , Thanks for the write up with the pictures . I am in the middle of doing my clutch right now .. Could you tell me the secret of keeping the crank from turning , so can get the screws out of the clutch cover ? ....Thanks patric

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post #10 of 28 Old Jul 22nd, 2009, 3:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patric
Hi Dan , Thanks for the write up with the pictures . I am in the middle of doing my clutch right now .. Could you tell me the secret of keeping the crank from turning , so can get the screws out of the clutch cover ? ....Thanks patric
I may have just gotten lucky. I turned the wrench and the crankshaft moved till it hit a compression stroke then the bolt gently broke loose. All six came out no problem. It must have taken several turns of the crank to get them all loose. The tool they show in the Clymer is just a bent piece of metal attached to one of the mounting holes and bent to stop the clutch cover from rotating. I'll probably have to fabricate (drill and bend) this to torque them up during installation, so it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and make one. Someone probably has a picture already scanned or I can post one later.
Good luck.

Dan
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post #11 of 28 Old Jul 22nd, 2009, 3:38 pm Thread Starter
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Just to revisit one of my questions about parts to replace. I get that only the clutch cover, friction disk and the pressure plate need to be renewed. My remaining question is why the instructions make such a big deal out of marking and reassembling the cover and housing in the same orientation? If I'm just going to replace the cover and not the housing, then there won't be any orientation to worry about. Is it the way the cover wears that makes putting the old one back on the same way critical and its something I don't have to worry about with a new one? I'd like to thing the housing (attached to the crankshaft) is balanced as is and is not a matched set with the cover.

Thanks for any clarification. I'll certainly have more questions, I appreciate the advice.

Dan
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post #12 of 28 Old Jul 22nd, 2009, 3:47 pm
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Cool !! , Thanks Dan . I'll see what I can come up with . I have the Repair CD , and all it says is remove the screws . No special tools or anything .

Patric Blackman
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post #13 of 28 Old Jul 22nd, 2009, 4:04 pm
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Dan

It does no harm to mark the components before dismantling - at least then the crankcase and cover will go back on lined up as they were. The old and new part may have similar marks on then and that will help with lining up.

For the 2 holders you need a length of mild steel bar about 1/4 inch thick which you can probably buy at a big DIY store. With the bike apart it is obvious whta size they need to be.

Good Luck

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post #14 of 28 Old Jul 22nd, 2009, 4:46 pm
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Dan.. perhaps the next clutch should be one of those "performance" ones?
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post #15 of 28 Old Jul 22nd, 2009, 5:20 pm
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Hi Dan , I ended up using an electric inpact wrench to get the screws out of the clutch . Then I got to looking at the back to the gear box , just under the starter motor . I wonder if that isn't the tool to remove the clutch with bolted on there . It doesn't look like it is doing anything there ....just a thought .

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post #16 of 28 Old Jul 22nd, 2009, 7:27 pm
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Each major part is marked and the goal is to place the three biggest pieces marks 120 degrees apart - not all lined up. This minimizes the balance impact.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
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2004 330 Ci Convertable
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post #17 of 28 Old Jul 23rd, 2009, 4:56 am
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Each major part is marked and the goal is to place the three biggest pieces marks 120 degrees apart - not all lined up. This minimizes the balance impact.

I was probabbly not very clear. John is correct about how the 3 peices should be reassembled, my thinking is to use something like Tipex to mark the pieces before dismantling then you can reassemble on the bench using the marks you have just applied. This will let you see what marks were applied in the factory and how they line up and if there are similar marks on your new pieces..

HTH

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post #18 of 28 Old Jul 23rd, 2009, 8:39 am
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Re: My Clutch Repair

not to get off track too much , But I am repalacing my clutch now too , slave leaked after 177k. question I have , is there a trick getting the seals out of the back of the engine and the front of the trans , thought I should replace them while I'm in there.

thanks
mark

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post #19 of 28 Old Jul 23rd, 2009, 8:48 am
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzkvsl
not to get off track too much , But I am repalacing my clutch now too , slave leaked after 177k. question I have , is there a trick getting the seals out of the back of the engine and the front of the trans , thought I should replace them while I'm in there.

thanks
mark
I just ground a hook on the end of an old screw driver and janked them out. They are not pressed in that hard.

Garry

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post #20 of 28 Old Jul 23rd, 2009, 11:00 am Thread Starter
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Each major part is marked and the goal is to place the three biggest pieces marks 120 degrees apart - not all lined up. This minimizes the balance impact.
That's a bit of Gold level information right there! I don't think I've read anywhere that the new parts are somehow marked and have an assembly orientation to each other. I'll have to look for the marks on my existing parts and on the new ones when I get them.

The only things I've read have to do with marking the existing parts so you can put them back like you found them, and they all make a BIG deal out of it. If it was somehow assembled wrong, the error will just get repeated. Far better to have this information and assemble it correctly regardless of how you found it.

Thanks!

Dan
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post #21 of 28 Old Jul 23rd, 2009, 2:28 pm
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Re: My Clutch Repair

There is nothing wrong with marking the parts as you pull them. Often it will help with the assembly of the new parts to compare the factory marks with what you pulled out. A dab of your favorite marking ink/paint followed by a light center punch dimple (won't wash off during cleaning) is a good idea. I can't remember if the factory marks are the light or heavey spot but the whole idea is to spread the balance around the assembly.

Oh and for a holder David S. posted a nice little drawing for making one.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #22 of 28 Old Jul 24th, 2009, 7:59 am
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Re: My Clutch Repair

thanks Gary,

plan is to get it all back together this weekend

mark

Mark West
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post #23 of 28 Old May 31st, 2010, 1:59 pm Thread Starter
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Re: My Clutch Repair

In the home stretch now. Got most of the tupperware back on. Just got is off the chock so I can turn the handle bars and bleed the clutch. Was able to start it up yesterday. I did the turn on, twist the throttle 2x, turn off and turn back on.

The bike has not run in over a year. The battery has been disconnnected for most of that time. The first time I cranked it, it was slow but it started. I let if run for a couple of minutes. Everything I could test while it was sitting there seemed to working fine. No leaks so far!

The idle seemed rough and it threated to die several times but never did.

Should I keep going and get it to the point of a test ride or do I have an issue in the re-assembly of the intake system? Just wondering how well I should be expecting it to run at this point.

Thank you,

Dan
2005 K1200LT - Ocean Blue

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post #24 of 28 Old May 31st, 2010, 2:42 pm
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Good to know that after a year, you can remember where everything went? That said, when I got my clutch and GB in I did a nekid test. No tupperware, around the neighborhood. Just to make sure everything was as it was supposed to be. Only then did I button it up....

Hoss
'Stupidity has a knack of getting its way.' --Albert Camus
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post #25 of 28 Old May 31st, 2010, 3:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoswell
Good to know that after a year, you can remember where everything went? That said, when I got my clutch and GB in I did a nekid test. No tupperware, around the neighborhood. Just to make sure everything was as it was supposed to be. Only then did I button it up....
Yea, I did that once. Once. I keep all the fasteners in their original places to keep track of them. First time I did that "round the block" run, I lost have of them. They back out FAST!

Anyway, the question was, "How did it run when you first started it up?" Did it improve a lot after the test drive?

Thanks,

Dan
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post #26 of 28 Old Jun 2nd, 2010, 10:45 pm Thread Starter
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Re: My Clutch Repair - Finally Done

Tightened the last fastener last night and took it for a test run. Filled it up with gas and rode about 20 minutes. It stalled every time I pulled in the clutch and let the throttle off. I had to keep the throttle on to keep it running. Figured I was looking at a vacuum leak or something in the wiring not connected right. I also did the 36K service along with replacing the O2 sensor so there were a number of variables.

Went ahead and took it to work this morning and everything seems great! Seems to be running fine and no sign of leaks. I know it's early, but I'm optimistic.

So the answer to my last question was that I needed to give it about 15 - 20 miles for the computer to re-learn everything.

I haven't been out of state yet, but I've been to the clutch and back!

Thanks to everyone who documented their clutch job, it helped a lot. Its been said often, but this site IS great. Thank you again.

Dan
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post #27 of 28 Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 3:03 am
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
"How did it run when you first started it up?" Did it improve a lot after the test drive?
I see that there were a few this last go around that had issues after the clutch job. Mr. B being the most problematic (he needs to list who helped him, so we don;t use those guys again! . IIRC, after everything was buttoned up, I took a hard 30 min ride and while it felt different, it rode fine. the next day I took off on a group ride to Ft. bragg and had no issues.

I take it all is still well?

Hoss
'Stupidity has a knack of getting its way.' --Albert Camus
'05- K1200LT - Gretchen
R.I.P. - '00- K1200LTE- "Barbara" - Retired at 168K 9/2011
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post #28 of 28 Old Jun 3rd, 2010, 4:34 am
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Re: My Clutch Repair

Could it have been stale gas causing the rideability issues? A year is a long time for the gas currently being made. It seems that a new tank fixed the issue for you!

Nice nice to have it back on the road!

Congrats!,

Loren

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
Yea, I did that once. Once. I keep all the fasteners in their original places to keep track of them. First time I did that "round the block" run, I lost have of them. They back out FAST!

Anyway, the question was, "How did it run when you first started it up?" Did it improve a lot after the test drive?

Thanks,

WAK1200LT
Loren

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