Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 82 Old Jul 17th, 2009, 12:39 pm Thread Starter
 
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Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

I had the same issue with the center stand as most. It need to be taken apart and cleaned and I followed the process that has been posted. I took the motor apart and cleaned also, it had a broken brush spring, which I replaced. I put everything back together but I could not get the piston to retract. After many times completely taking apart and rebuilding, I found my problem. The electric motor is running in reverse. If I reverse the polarity of the motor, it works fine. So, I connect the red lead to the negativhttp://www.bmwlt.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=11#e post on a battery on my bench and brown lead to the positive post. When connecting up the motor up with the red lead to the positive post, the motor direction is counter clockwise. Any idea how to switch the direction of the motor. I do not want to switch the wires and connect it to bike because the positive wire would be connected directly to ground. Any help would be appreciated.

thanks
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post #2 of 82 Old Jul 17th, 2009, 2:51 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc3188
I had the same issue with the center stand as most. It need to be taken apart and cleaned and I followed the process that has been posted. I took the motor apart and cleaned also, it had a broken brush spring, which I replaced. I put everything back together but I could not get the piston to retract. After many times completely taking apart and rebuilding, I found my problem. The electric motor is running in reverse. If I reverse the polarity of the motor, it works fine. So, I connect the red lead to the negativhttp://www.bmwlt.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=11#e post on a battery on my bench and brown lead to the positive post. When connecting up the motor up with the red lead to the positive post, the motor direction is counter clockwise. Any idea how to switch the direction of the motor. I do not want to switch the wires and connect it to bike because the positive wire would be connected directly to ground. Any help would be appreciated.

thanks
My guess is that you have reversed the wire connections at the motor, when you replaced the brush/spring (usual problem is the thing you did last), The ground wire (brown wire) comes of the bolt holding the motor into the housing (if i remember correctly). If you use a meter you should have continuity from the motor (frame) to the brown wire at the plug & NOT from the motor frame to the RED wire at the plug. If not then you have things reversed at the motor connections.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck

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post #3 of 82 Old Jul 17th, 2009, 2:55 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Fortunately, my extended warranty just bought me a new one ==
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post #4 of 82 Old Jul 18th, 2009, 11:36 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

The connections are correct, the red wire connects directly to the one brush, it can't be
removed since the lead is soldered to it and it is isolated. The other brush is connected
by a screw to the base of the motor. Not sure what else to check.

Thanks,
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post #5 of 82 Old Jul 19th, 2009, 4:34 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Hi Dale,

I know it is pretty tough to get the wires mixed but is it possible that something in your pump assembly got reversed? I mean that the motor is running the right direction but the fluid circulation got somehow reversed.

Did you take the pump apart and if yes, did you put everything back the same way?

Maybe this helps:

http://picasaweb.google.fi/pozoizqui...RSTANDOVERHAUL#

Regards

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

Hyvinkää, Finland
2004 ('05) LT, Dark Graphite, "Sunset Cruiser II"

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post #6 of 82 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 10:55 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Thanks Ari,

Yes, I have take the pump apart about 12 times. How I found out that the motor was reversed was that I put the pump back together with out the large spring to push back
the shaft. When it still did not move, I just reversed the leads as a last resort and it
worked. I then disassembled the pump yet again, replaced the spring, filled with fluid,
removed the air and it works great, but with the red lead to ground. If I remove the
motor and check the motor direction, with the red lead connected to positive, it runs
counter clockwise. So, I believe the pump is fine, I'll keep working on the motor.

Thanks,

Dale
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post #7 of 82 Old Aug 26th, 2009, 5:29 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

An update on my problem. I never did find out why the electric motor was turning
counter clockwise. I ended up reversing the connections inside the motor to the
brushes. The brush that was connected to the red wire I was able to connect
it to the motor housing and the brush that was connected to the brown wire(ground)
I added a small wire and soldered it to the red wire connector. The motor then went in a
clockwise direction. I replaced the motor back into the centerstand and it works
great. I put it back on the bike and I now have my centerstand working again.
Thanks for all the suggestions and if anyone takes the electric motor off, please
let me know if the motor runs in a clockwise direction.

Thanks,

Dale
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post #8 of 82 Old Aug 26th, 2009, 6:09 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

I wonder if someone worked on the bike and reversed polarity somewhere..?
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post #9 of 82 Old Nov 3rd, 2009, 7:21 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - failure

Have just suffered the same fate... centre stand failure on my '05 after just over 4 years of daily use, and a couple of days before a 4 day trip with the SO too.
Had no problems with it in all that time until...., went away for a 2 week holiday in SO's car, but once home and riding again (to work) it started failing to lift occassionaly. Don't think it liked being left at home and missing all those twisties in Tassie....
There's just a very minor amount of oil near the seal around the rod.

Have found the technical pdf and also Ari's pics of removal and repair (wonderful work guys...), which leaves a couple of questions...

1) roughly how long would you expect it take to remove, clean and repair the hydraulic, and replace? I'm no mechanic, but have ventured under the hood for some cosmetic work and farkling, so a little daunted but expect the price of a new unit (when I find that out from my local stealer) will drive me on with doing it.
2) where would I get the specific seals/parts that might need renewing? Picking up parts in Oz doesn't always seem to be as straight forward as it does for you US lads...
any suggestions welcome

regards

Chris
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post #10 of 82 Old Nov 3rd, 2009, 9:38 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
Have just suffered the same fate... centre stand failure on my '05 after just over 4 years of daily use, and a couple of days before a 4 day trip with the SO too.
Had no problems with it in all that time until...., went away for a 2 week holiday in SO's car, but once home and riding again (to work) it started failing to lift occassionaly. Don't think it liked being left at home and missing all those twisties in Tassie....
There's just a very minor amount of oil near the seal around the rod.

Have found the technical pdf and also Ari's pics of removal and repair (wonderful work guys...), which leaves a couple of questions...

1) roughly how long would you expect it take to remove, clean and repair the hydraulic, and replace? I'm no mechanic, but have ventured under the hood for some cosmetic work and farkling, so a little daunted but expect the price of a new unit (when I find that out from my local stealer) will drive me on with doing it.
2) where would I get the specific seals/parts that might need renewing? Picking up parts in Oz doesn't always seem to be as straight forward as it does for you US lads...
any suggestions welcome

regards
Chris,

I hear you about the twisties in Tassie...I also did Tassie in a car WOW.
As to the removal of the EHSC, to get it out takes about 15 min & remember you only have to take out the EHCS the center stand remains.
I had the same problem after I had rebuilt my EHCS, the dash light would flash but nothing would happen, eventually found the the proximity switch located on the rightside on the centerstand bracket to be the problem. I just removed it from the bracket(loosen the screw & it slips out). This solved the problem iin that the prox switch was faultyy in sensing the centerstand being in the up position...switch cost $126 in Canada..still just have the switch floating loose.

Sorry can't help with the seals in Aussie, but I didn't replace any on my rebuild. I would just follow the rebuild guide to replace the oil which I'm sure is very dirty & see how it goes.

Good Luck

BIGHOPPER (Phil)
BGB 602
2016 R1200RT LC Purchase March
2003 R1150GSA Black Beast (purchased Nov 2011- 32,372klms)
2006 K1200LT Grey
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1973 Norton Interstate
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post #11 of 82 Old Nov 3rd, 2009, 1:00 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Just make sure you don't over fill the unit with fluid or you will blow out the small formed o-ring seal in the main body. Fill it then cycle it in the horizontal position and add until you just get full travel. Then add a bit more at a time until you hear the relief valve open (you will know it).

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post #12 of 82 Old Nov 3rd, 2009, 2:52 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Hi Chris,

as Phil said you don't have to remove the whole centerstand / sidestand unit as I did (especially if you don't have a wheel chock to keep your bike upright). So 15-30 minutes to get it off -depending on how much time you spend with head sratching and tool searching...
Then another 15 minutes for a through exterior clean-up. Then one to two hours for taking the unit in small pieces, cleaning everything and putting it back together. You should not need any new seals as all of them are just o-ring type of things and you can reuse them as long as you don't loose them.

And John is right about the oil filling. I must have been plain lucky with mine since I just filled it by testing it frequently on the bench simultaneously when adding oil.

And one more hint:

My original trouble maker for all this EHCS hassle turned out to be the hand brake limit switch. It took me a very long time to realize that my hand brake limit switch was actually keeping my brake lights on even though I did not touch the lever. And this of course prevents the EHCS from working...

So please make sure that your hand brake limit switch actually releases when it is supposed to do so.

Regards

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

Hyvinkää, Finland
2004 ('05) LT, Dark Graphite, "Sunset Cruiser II"

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post #13 of 82 Old Mar 30th, 2010, 6:21 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Time to finally attempt this, as its Easter long-weekend coming up!
I'm damn sick of using the side-stand and the fat lady smoking when I kick her over (even after letting the oil settle after switching off!)....
Time to crawl over Ari's comprehensive pics.... again!! ;-)

Ummm, anyone know if its possible to get the bike up on the centre stand by holding down the stand and (with help) rocking the bike backward?
Or is it safer to leave it on the sidestand to undertake the repairs...????

...and is their a preference (when taking the unit apart) to having the hydraulic arm extended (bike on centrestand) or relaxed (bike off centrestand) - or it that the wrong way around?... its been so long since I've seen it up.... (no viagra jokes required... ;-) )

...and another question... noticed in Joe Gotteberg's notes that it says "hydraulic fluid"..
is there a special "hydraulic fluid" or will any "hydraulic fluid" work?

Chris
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post #14 of 82 Old Mar 30th, 2010, 9:38 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
Time to finally attempt this, as its Easter long-weekend coming up!
I'm damn sick of using the side-stand and the fat lady smoking when I kick her over (even after letting the oil settle after switching off!)....
Time to crawl over Ari's comprehensive pics.... again!! ;-)

Ummm, anyone know if its possible to get the bike up on the centre stand by holding down the stand and (with help) rocking the bike backward?
Or is it safer to leave it on the sidestand to undertake the repairs...????
Yes you can hold the center stand down & get help to pull the Big Girl up onto it.
I did mine 3 times with her on the center stand. Just follow the directions in the write ups & she's easy to do. BUT only pull the mount for the Hyd Motor :-).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
...and is their a preference (when taking the unit apart) to having the hydraulic arm extended (bike on centrestand) or relaxed (bike off centrestand) - or it that the wrong way around?... its been so long since I've seen it up.... (no viagra jokes required... ;-) )
When you put the bike on the center stand it will pull the hyd piston rod out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
...and another question... noticed in Joe Gotteberg's notes that it says "hydraulic fluid"..is there a special "hydraulic fluid" or will any "hydraulic fluid" work?
No special fluid required just get some Hyd fluid from your local joint...usually referred to as Hyd Jack fluid.

Good Luck

BIGHOPPER (Phil)
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1975 Norton John Player Replica (Sold When I got Married)
1973 Norton Interstate
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post #15 of 82 Old Mar 31st, 2010, 2:10 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bighopper
I did mine 3 times with her on the center stand.
Thanks Phil!

Dare I ask... why 3 times?

Chris
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post #16 of 82 Old Mar 31st, 2010, 8:28 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
Thanks Phil!

Dare I ask... why 3 times?
Did the Hyd fluid changed & had a major crack occur in the body...repaired that & then went through a couple of adjustments with fluid amounts.

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post #17 of 82 Old Apr 2nd, 2010, 4:21 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

OK, so spent a good part of the day working on the old girl (the bike, that is).

Got the actuator assembly out OK, took about an hour and a bit what with removing RH side lower fairing, and writing notes and taking pictures as I pulled things apart (great notes and pics Ari... pretty easy to follow through!)
Another 4 hours I had disassembled and cleaned all components per Ari's notes.

The one thing that did seem to be a problem was when I pulled the electric motor off and tried just turning the end, it was very stiff. So pulled it apart, cleaned out the dust and freed it all, also carefully cleaned the rotor parts to make sure nothing was caught between the sections.

Bolted everything together, added oil, and hooked it up to power on bike to test..... nothing.... tried a couple of times, then heard a very short grunt of movement.
Touched the electric motor and it was pretty warm. So disconnected it and removed the motor to test it by itself.
The motor "seemed" to turn freely, so hooked it up to power and tested, it wouldn't spin until I gave it a help by twisting the end. It ran a couple of times in quick test bursts, but got very hot.

So, it seems like the electric motor itself might be shot. Anyone know if these are replaceable outside "BMW land"? I can't imagine BMW would sell them individually if they don't have the actuator as a serviceable part.

??

Chris
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post #18 of 82 Old Apr 2nd, 2010, 12:21 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Chris,

sorry to hear about your motor problem. You did not mention about the brushes, how did they look like?

I am not a professional electrician, just a self made man in that respect but from the experience I have for instance fiddling with my garage door opener ( a 24 V similar DC motor) I am a little doubtful about your motor being shot. A DC motor is a a quite simple piece of machinery. Unless you can really see that it is burned I would not loose the hope.

I would suggest that you do your testing on the table by using a separate 12V battery and feeding the motor wires directly from the battery terminals. This way you will eliminate all the other possible problem points.
Then I would double check the brushes and their connection and even change them just to be sure. You can get new brushes from your local Black&Decker, Bosch or whatever power drill / circular saw supplier. Just get oversized brushes and use a fine file to make them correct size. That is real easy.

At this stage this is all I can think of, I hope you get it working.

Regards

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

Hyvinkää, Finland
2004 ('05) LT, Dark Graphite, "Sunset Cruiser II"

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post #19 of 82 Old Apr 5th, 2010, 8:40 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Thanks for the info Ari.

We've (my old dad - ex-mechanic and I), spent 2 and half days on it now, but still no luck.

He pulled the DC motor apart again and found that a small part of one brush had broken off, and both appeared to be well worn. We sourced some other brushes from the variety of old car "bits and pieces" strewn around the garage, he filed them down and soldered them in.
Testing the motor it was very hit & miss on getting it to turn when powered, and when it did it sounded very rattly. He thinks the ball-bearing bush at the bottom is too worn.
So now I'm chasing a replacement.

Here's the other bit that was very strange... the oil pump.
Once cleaned and put back together, but without the first 2 bolts in it - the shaft turned nice and smoothly. Put the 2 bolts in, and slowly tighten... just past finger-tight, the shaft couldn't turn. Too much pressure on the 2 x fig-8 sections that the gears sit between locks it up. Looks like the rubber gasket is no longer thick enough to tighten the pump up, so we made a couple of paper gaskets to fit between the sections, just outside of the rubber gasket, to take the pressure of the centre section. Once we did that, I could tighten the pump up properly and the shaft still spins. ???

That problem may have led to the damage to the DC motor, stopping it from turning.... who knows...

anyway...

bike is back together without an EHCS actuator attached, so at least I'm still riding..
If i can't find a motor I'll have to look at ordering the entire actuator (ouch).

thanks for you assistance!
cheers



Chris
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post #20 of 82 Old Apr 5th, 2010, 4:09 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Chris,

looks like you and your dad did a through job with analyzing the motor. Since your bike is still rideable perhaps you can spend some time looking for a part from beemerboneyard, LT-parts.com, or even Hannigan Trikes.
What does your dealer suggest as a solution?

Regards

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

Hyvinkää, Finland
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post #21 of 82 Old Apr 5th, 2010, 7:31 pm
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Smile Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Hi
I thought I'd stick my 2 cents in, just in case someone has my problem. First, thanks to everyone for the great advice. Here's mine; A few months ago, I removed the center stand assy. as it stopped working, I cleaned it, replaced the fluid and tightened it all down. It's been working perfectly until a few days ago. The motor stopped engaging. I took it apart today to discover it was full of water, one brush was gone and one spring was broken. Taking your advice, I used the spare brush set that came with my belt sander and shaved the brushes down to fit. Snug it back up, put some silicone around the rubber motor cover and it's working fine again. I suspect it was my fault because I used a pressure washer to clean up the pump the first time. I recommend you don't spray down the pump motor when cleaning it. Thanks again to everyone for your suggestions and pics.
Oh I forgot, It's a one man job putting the armature back in. Just retract the brushes with your fingers and place light pressure on them both with two small screwdrivers (like using chopsticks), with the free hand, lower the armature into the slot and let go of the brushes.It helps to place the housing in a vice. Be very careful not to put too much pressure on the brushes, they are very delicate. I wish I would have taken a pic of it. Maybe next time.

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post #22 of 82 Old Apr 5th, 2010, 8:05 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

A while ago I also had a centerstand "issue"
I had gotten the "big girl" stuck in a wet culvert and the motor got wet.
Upon dis assembly following Ari's instructions I found a stuck brush,
filed down some new brushes, soldered them in and it worked.

Felt really proud and did a little post on how easy it was.

A week later it stopped working, took it apart several times got it working,
put it back on the bike and it wouldn't work,
repeat that a couple of times and I was pretty frustrated.

Walked away from it for a couple of days and when I got back to it,
I discovered (by accident) the screw that grounds the brush was corroded,
there was continuity but apparently not enough to power the motor,
haven't had any problems since.

And on a side note the motor "sounds" different (quieter) than it used to.
Hope this may help someone!


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post #23 of 82 Old Apr 5th, 2010, 11:08 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Good to hear the various success stories of fixing the motor....
I've pinged the usual supply suspects about parts, but I know that Tony has a long wait-list of clients for EHCS units from when I contacted him last year about it.
Guess I'll play around with the motor a little more.. maybe sprinkle some pixie dust on it, and hope for the best!

Chris
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post #24 of 82 Old Apr 6th, 2010, 7:34 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

some additional info that might help others.
The motor base is stamped "Misuba Electric Manufacturing Co Ltd" and is a SM-10 0.25KW starter motor.
I can't find any other info about SM-10's on the web, guess its BMW part order only.
I did find some Misuba brushes parts listed online at several places, for future reference.

I'm shipping mine off to a motorcycles "small motor" repair shop in Victoria (Oz), see if they can fix it properly without me losing an arm and a leg in the process...


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post #25 of 82 Old Apr 7th, 2010, 12:11 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Just got quote from the stealership.....

Au$2155 for the actuator assembly shipped from Germany.... (they'll knock that down to $1939.25 for me) plus $about $200 install (that's to do up 5 or 6 bolts + tupperware) but that does get me a 2 year warranty on it... ouch.

Hope the motor rebuild works out....

Anyone got a "new" price recently in the US? The way the Aussie $ is going (about AU$1: US$0.93 at the moment) it might be cheaper to get via the US of A and forget the warranty.

hmmmmm

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post #26 of 82 Old Apr 10th, 2010, 11:01 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Evidently THIS motor is a replacement for the Mitsuba SM-10. At $49 (USD) it looks a lot cheaper than buying a new BM unit.

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post #27 of 82 Old Apr 10th, 2010, 2:26 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolly
Evidently THIS motor is a replacement for the Mitsuba SM-10. At $49 (USD) it looks a lot cheaper than buying a new BM unit.
Woolly, what a great find if that is a replacement motor for the EHCS. Keep us posted if you use one & she fits & works. I have book marked just in case

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post #28 of 82 Old Apr 10th, 2010, 3:16 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

The Mitsuba SM-10 is quite commonly used as a Starter Motor in European and Japanese Scooters, as well as in Jet Skis, snow mobiles and the like. I'm waiting for a reply back from Mitsuba in Japan, but in the meantime, the EMS one should be much easier to get hold of in North America.

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post #29 of 82 Old Apr 10th, 2010, 10:10 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

That does look pretty much the same, nice find Woolly...

Pity, I shipped mine to a repairer last week, and told them if its over $200 its not worth it..... maybe I should have said if its over $50.....

With shipping the HS-50N is less than US$65 to Sydney.....
Guess I'll ring the repairer Monday and see if they've looked at it yet.

OEM



HS-50N


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post #30 of 82 Old Apr 11th, 2010, 8:18 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
That does look pretty much the same, nice find Woolly...

Pity, I shipped mine to a repairer last week, and told them if its over $200 its not worth it..... maybe I should have said if its over $50.....

With shipping the HS-50N is less than US$65 to Sydney.....
Guess I'll ring the repairer Monday and see if they've looked at it yet.

OEM



HS-50N

Very interested in what the shop says.

Also interested in seeing these compared next to each other. If all the holes line up they look like it even reversed as I believe yours in your hand is 180 degrees of the HS-50N.

I also cant count the teeth with my old eyes. And of course what the diam mics at and all that. I did see in searches on the Web that there a bunch of these typs of motors used as starter motors as mentioned.

Hope you get it squared away, if it was me I would order one regardless to compare when I got the OEM back either way that turns out. Also 69.00 to you, verses the repair bill and postage on the old one. My feeling is these things go so having a replacement on the shelf would make me feel better in my quest for stocked parts.

Only think I see is the wiring and I cant see how it is on the OEM, but the HS looks like two spades?

Anyway good luck, and we are all waiting to see how this goes for you.

I know we all appreciate you sharing, and maybe solving another 1700.00 bill (rape) from BMW, down to a 70.00 annoyance.

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post #31 of 82 Old Apr 11th, 2010, 10:32 am
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Thumbs up Electro-hydraulic center stand REPLACEMENT MOTOR.

It looks to be an EXACT match! I copied both pics as jpec and edited, flipped, enlarged. The teeth are the same count (10) in the pictures but NOT on their web (they spec CCW rot. - 9 teeth) and the cast looks exact. Now the TEETH & dimensions are all that is left. At that price I'll buy it to keep as spare while I rebuild the other!
GREAT FIND!!!!!

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post #32 of 82 Old Apr 11th, 2010, 1:13 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolly
Evidently THIS motor is a replacement for the Mitsuba SM-10. At $49 (USD) it looks a lot cheaper than buying a new BM unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
Electro-hydraulic center stand REPLACEMENT MOTOR.
It looks to be an EXACT match! I copied both pics as jpec and edited, flipped, enlarged. The teeth are the same count (10) in the pictures but NOT on their web (they spec CCW rot. - 9 teeth) and the cast looks exact. Now the TEETH & dimensions are all that is left. At that price I'll buy it to keep as spare while I rebuild the other!
GREAT FIND!!!!!
It is the same motor - direct replacement.

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post #33 of 82 Old Apr 11th, 2010, 4:59 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Just a quick thought, if you change the relationship between the Field Magnets & the brushes by rotating the cover 180 degrees the motor will run backwards.. Too late by now but mark the cover (holds magnets) to motor end bell relationship when disassembling with a felt pen.
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post #34 of 82 Old Apr 11th, 2010, 6:06 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

.... just make sure they've got one left for me.... can't get to put an order in till later today... ;-P

----------------

OK, I'll be the guinea pig... had 10 minutes up my sleeve and put an order in...
Shop hadn't touched my old motor so they'll ship back...
Bit of luck I might get the new one by end of week... we'll see...

thanks again Woolly!

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post #35 of 82 Old Apr 11th, 2010, 9:10 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
.... just make sure they've got one left for me.... can't get to put an order in till later today... ;-P

----------------

OK, I'll be the guinea pig... had 10 minutes up my sleeve and put an order in...
Shop hadn't touched my old motor so they'll ship back...
Bit of luck I might get the new one by end of week... we'll see...

thanks again Woolly!
Please post your reults!

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post #36 of 82 Old Apr 12th, 2010, 2:52 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws

OK, I'll be the guinea pig... had 10 minutes up my sleeve and put an order in...
Shop hadn't touched my old motor so they'll ship back...
Bit of luck I might get the new one by end of week... we'll see...

thanks again Woolly!
I'm 99.98% certain (that's the best you get in astro physics - nothing is certain) it will work without a problem - after all, it's only a (commonly used) electric motor. Keep us posted.

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post #37 of 82 Old Apr 13th, 2010, 3:47 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolly
I'm 99.98% certain
Make that 99.99%...

here's my old one I just got back.. some very minor differences compared to pic of new one.. (ignore the lighting, the top is grey cast aluminium also) checked the teeth/hole specs too.. they seem to match.

Got 3 x email responses overnight from EMS Global saying they had shipped.
Paypal payment was fine.

OEM Misuba


HS-50N

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post #38 of 82 Old Apr 21st, 2010, 5:31 pm
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Arrow Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
Make that 99.99%...

here's my old one I just got back.. some very minor differences compared to pic of new one.. (ignore the lighting, the top is grey cast aluminium also) checked the teeth/hole specs too.. they seem to match.

Got 3 x email responses overnight from EMS Global saying they had shipped.
Paypal payment was fine.

OEM Misuba


HS-50N
Well how about it? Did the new motor arrive, is it the same, does it work? Any news??????

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post #39 of 82 Old Apr 21st, 2010, 7:07 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
Well how about it? Did the new motor arrive, is it the same, does it work? Any news??????
SJ, yep, it arrived on Monday, and for all intents and purposes, looks to be identical. The sprocket/cog on the armature is perhaps a gnats whisker longer, but that wont be an issue.
Unfortunately I wont get to play at putting it all back together until the weekend... at which time I'll have to try to work out why the oil pump wouldn't go back together nicely again...
anyway, I'll update when I get some results one way or the other.
But as far as the motor goes, I think we are good (fingers crossed)

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post #40 of 82 Old Apr 24th, 2010, 5:06 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Update: well, partial success....
The motor is good, only had to drill out the hole in the pos terminal a little so that the screw would fit through (you can see the difference in the pics above). I was careful when cutting through the heat-shrink when removing the power cable from the original motor, so it was easy to wrap the shrink back around and tape it over.

Bench testing the unit showed I had to keep adding oil to get it to work, and I got as much in as I could by compressing the arm and filling through the hole that has large black bolt (presume that's the filler hole).
It seemed to run OK, so bolted it all back up.

Testing on the bike, it pulled the stand down but didn't have enough power to pull the bike up... much like it was when it was starting to fail originally.
So now I suspect that the oil pump has a real problem, because I had to make some paper gaskets to get it to not lock-up the gears when bolting it back together.
At a guess I'm thinking that the original gaskets inside have compressed a little too much, and that the added ones I've put in means that the pump can't produce enough pressure before it quits.... but I really don't know

Anyone got any clues about the inner workings of the pump?

Chris
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post #41 of 82 Old Apr 24th, 2010, 5:58 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Pleased to see the motor is good. As for the pump - being a gear pump, the tolerances are critical. Any wear in the gears or the 'side plates' will allow the pump to 'stall' under load.Again, it will be a standard pump - if you can post detailed pics, and any numbers etc. cast into it, and some dimensions, I should be able to source one for you.

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post #42 of 82 Old Apr 24th, 2010, 7:17 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Woolly! Lets see you wave your magic wand again.... and come up with one of these... (I haven't looked yet)

Marzocchi
U 0.25 R 24 KXG A2
P 437
27/02/2004
100934206

&

Made in Italy

..and Ari's photo's show all the insides, starting HERE

shows his marks are similar:
Marzocchi
U 0.25 R 24 KXG A2
P 437
03/11/2003
100792635 (I think)


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post #43 of 82 Old Apr 24th, 2010, 7:32 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

On filling. I over filled mine and blew out the 0.030" o-ring case seal. I repaired that and let some fluid out. Then I filled through the one small port at the bottom (see joegottbergs write up and Ari's pic #38) and ran it on the bench until I got full travel of the ram. Put it on the bike and it would not fully raise the bike. Pulled it off and added a bit more fluid twice until I could hear the relief valve open (you will know the difference when you hear it) when the ram was fully retracted. Put it back on the bike and all is well. Don't give up until you do that.

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post #44 of 82 Old Apr 24th, 2010, 7:37 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

OK, whilst I'm looking, have you seen THIS - it's got some good stuff on filling & bleeding the pump.

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post #45 of 82 Old Apr 24th, 2010, 7:44 am
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Lightbulb Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
Update: well, partial success....
The motor is good, only had to drill out the hole in the pos terminal a little so that the screw would fit through (you can see the difference in the pics above). I was careful when cutting through the heat-shrink when removing the power cable from the original motor, so it was easy to wrap the shrink back around and tape it over.

Bench testing the unit showed I had to keep adding oil to get it to work, and I got as much in as I could by compressing the arm and filling through the hole that has large black bolt (presume that's the filler hole).
It seemed to run OK, so bolted it all back up.

Testing on the bike, it pulled the stand down but didn't have enough power to pull the bike up... much like it was when it was starting to fail originally.
So now I suspect that the oil pump has a real problem, because I had to make some paper gaskets to get it to not lock-up the gears when bolting it back together.
At a guess I'm thinking that the original gaskets inside have compressed a little too much, and that the added ones I've put in means that the pump can't produce enough pressure before it quits.... but I really don't know

Anyone got any clues about the inner workings of the pump?
Thanks for the feedback.
-What type of hydr. oil are you using, it must be a non foaming type light in weight someone may know the grade
-when trying to lift the bike does the motor stall or continue to operate? IMPORTANT
-operating= air in hydr., dirt or a bypass failing- operate the ram several times to bleed the air
-TO MUCH OIL IS NOT GOOD!

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2014 BMW K1600GTL-E EXCLUSIVE
2001 Honda C-250 Helix
SOLD 2006 BMW K-1200LT "The Manatee"

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post #46 of 82 Old Apr 24th, 2010, 7:44 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

OK, THIS looks like your pump - 2nd one down - R24.

And you can buy it from HERE - Don't know the price though

  • 2005 LT - 17 countries, 2 CONTINENTS & counting !
  • MB SLK 350 MT
  • 1974 Triumph Bonneville 750

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post #47 of 82 Old Apr 24th, 2010, 7:45 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Great Wooly, That is Joe's write up also available here EHCS .

We are all hoping our mate down under will be sucessfull. Great find on the motor also.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #48 of 82 Old Apr 24th, 2010, 11:21 pm
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Woo-hoo!
Just read through posts (thanks guys) but have already spent the morning back under the bike.... thought maybe I hadn't quite got enough oil in it after reading joegottbergs notes again last night...
I force-filled oil (using Shell Tellus 46) through the 3 small screw holes on the barrel sides (shown in Joe's notes) until it came back out, and now the bike comes straight up, no hesitation. It only needed another 20-30 mls or so.
I will have to watch to carefully over the next while to see if there are any leaks from the old seals, or if my paper gaskets give any problems... guess I'll know soon enough when it starts hesitating to lift again.
But for now, one happy lad!

Once again, this site is an amazing resource. Thanks again everyone!
(ps. Woolly, I'll check that pump out just in case!)

note: Woolly, yes that looks like its the right pump all right.
I've sent an email off to the Australian distributor too see if available and what they cost.. again it might be cheaper to buy from US and get posted out, if I find I need one.

Overall cost saving thanks to the generosity of eveyone here... about Au$2000

cheers!!

Chris
Sydney, NSW
2005 Dark Graphite Metallic K1200LT
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(sold 2019)
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Last edited by cws; Apr 24th, 2010 at 11:32 pm.
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post #49 of 82 Old Apr 25th, 2010, 2:11 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Great news. If you get a price for the pump, could you post it up here - the enquiry form on the US link I posted does not work (with firefox anyway).

Now all we need is a part number for the cylinder/actuator and we can rebuild with new parts without paying BMW prices

  • 2005 LT - 17 countries, 2 CONTINENTS & counting !
  • MB SLK 350 MT
  • 1974 Triumph Bonneville 750

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post #50 of 82 Old Apr 25th, 2010, 6:58 am
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Re: Electro-hydraulic center stand - motor issue

Chris,

glad to hear you got your problem sorted out! I did not want to add confusion to the oil fill discussion with my comments since I must have been plain lucky with my own oil fill procedure. I simply tried to fill in as much oil as I drained out...

And Wolly's findings about the source for the spare motor and pump are very valuable for the future use.

BTW I'll be meeting Tom & Hartmut in two weeks. I guess they will have some stories to tell about their journey around your continent...

Best regards

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

Hyvinkää, Finland
2004 ('05) LT, Dark Graphite, "Sunset Cruiser II"

Bike trip from Finland to USA:

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