1999 Lt advantages and disadvantages? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 2:30 pm Thread Starter
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Question 1999 Lt advantages and disadvantages?

I have an 02 Lt and love it. I recently found a 99 for a great price. 30,000 miles. What are the differences in the two machines? I'm thinkining service of the brakes (ie. bleeding) would be much simpler.Does it have abs?,linked brakes? How durable is the rear drive? I know everyone has an opinion,just thought I would find out what some of you guys thought about the 99 models before I buy a second Lt.

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post #2 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 2:55 pm
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Simpler brake setup for sure. Full ABS, no power assist, no link. Same as 2000 year. I prefer the early brake system.

You take your chances with rear drive failure with all years, IMHO.

You get better milage with the older gearing.

Vince Weidig
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post #3 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 2:56 pm
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Yes on the ABS, No on the linked brakes.

I love my 99 LT with its 31K miles on it (bought it almost 2 years ago with 8700 miles). The only failure I had was the shift linkage, replaced with a unit from Phil (from this site).
I pretty much do my own maintenance.

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post #4 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 5:26 pm
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post #5 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 5:43 pm
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I had an 02 sold it to build a house for the twins. Went nuts in about six months, wife told to buy motorcycle. I wanted another LT and found a 99 with 15K. I wanted to things on it, intercom and GPS. Found and bought one. I do not know if this is in my mind, but it feels as if it rides better than my 02. I like the "not intergraded brakes", power brakes did not brother me on the 02. I had a u-joint go bad on the 99 and a dead battery in a week time. Fixed the u-joint and keep it on a trickle charger.

Have add the chip and exhaust which I bought through this web. See runs and runs well.
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post #6 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 5:54 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayliner2052
Simpler brake setup for sure. Full ABS, no power assist, no link ...
Don't think that's correct, Vince. The '99 LT did have full ABS AND linked brakes - what it did not have is the power brakes of the '02 and later models. The LT from day 1 (1999 model) had linked brakes.

- Bob

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post #7 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 6:21 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
The LT from day 1 (1999 model) had linked brakes.

- Bob
Sorry you're mistaken. My 2000 doesn't have linked breaks. They came in the 2002 model.

Vince Weidig
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post #8 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 7:22 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayliner2052
Sorry you're mistaken. My 2000 doesn't have linked breaks. They came in the 2002 model.
This is NOT a real big deal, Vince, but I appeal to the larger LT community. My understanding is that the LT had linked brakes from the very first model in 1999. By this, I mean "fully linked": hit the front brake and you get front and rear; hit the rear brake and you get rear and front. The RT had "semi-linked" brakes: hit the front and you get front and rear; hit the rear and you get only rear. The only extra that came in 2002 was power brakes. What say you - who is correct here ???

- Bob

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post #9 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 7:36 pm
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Bob,

Sorry Bob, but I have to side with Vince on this one. I have a 1999 with ABS, however , it does not have a linked braking system. I believe the changes happened in 2002 . Hope this helps.
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post #10 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 7:42 pm
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Cool '99 & '00 LT did NOT have Linked Brakes

Sorry Bob, but Vince is correct here. In fact my '00 does not have linked brakes, Thank You very much! But it does most assuredly have ABS, and we're really appreciative of that! The LT didn't get linked brakes (or integrated) until '01 or '02.

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post #11 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 7:47 pm
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I will stand corrected and apologize if you're right, Patrick, but I had a '99 LT before the '02 LT I have now, and I was told that the '99 LT had fully linked brakes. Those who do not like the front brake activation when you press the rear brake pedal were complaining about this feature in 1999 - they wanted (in 1999) the "semi-linked" brakes of the RT and the K1200RS, and even asked if there was some way of modifying the LT's fully linked brakes to get the semi-linked brakes of the other models. Anyone else ???????

- Bob

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post #12 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 8:25 pm
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My '01 does not have linked brakes.

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post #13 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 8:34 pm
 
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Smile Linked Brakes

I bought my 01 in 02. I bought the 01 because it did not have the linked brakes. I rode both and liked the 01 better.
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post #14 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 8:37 pm
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All of you are wrong, Honda has linked and BMW has intergraded. Lets use the right wording, now. I am getting confused.
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post #15 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 9:16 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
I will stand corrected and apologize if you're right, Patrick, but I had a '99 LT before the '02 LT I have now, and I was told that the '99 LT had fully linked brakes. Those who do not like the front brake activation when you press the rear brake pedal were complaining about this feature in 1999 - they wanted (in 1999) the "semi-linked" brakes of the RT and the K1200RS, and even asked if there was some way of modifying the LT's fully linked brakes to get the semi-linked brakes of the other models. Anyone else ???????

- Bob
Hey, Bob - more fodder. Toad has a pinhole leak in the rear brake line - I need to get it fixed and when I do, it's going back with braided lines. Butt, I found the leak by stabbing the foot brake and tracing the fluid splatter on the inside of a tupperware piece. When I wuz squeezing the hand brake in search of the leak location, the pinhole never dribbled. So, I'm guessing no linked brakes for Toad, an early '99. HTH.
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post #16 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 9:37 pm
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Motorman587 said:
"All of you are wrong, Honda has linked and BMW has intergraded. Lets use the right wording, now. I am getting confused."

OK John, I agree that perhaps linked is incorrect, but so is "intergraded"! The correct word is integrated. And once and for all everybody, the early LT's did not have that, or the power assist!

Evidently the '02 was the first year for both of those features. Quick way to tell is to look at the calipers on the Bikes. If it says"BMW" on the outside of the caliper, the Bike has the newer integrated/power assist brakes! If it says "Brembo" the Bike has the older ABS without the integration or power assist!

Nuff said?

John

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post #17 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 10:19 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
I will stand corrected and apologize if you're right, Patrick, but I had a '99 LT before the '02 LT I have now, and I was told that the '99 LT had fully linked brakes. Those who do not like the front brake activation when you press the rear brake pedal were complaining about this feature in 1999 - they wanted (in 1999) the "semi-linked" brakes of the RT and the K1200RS, and even asked if there was some way of modifying the LT's fully linked brakes to get the semi-linked brakes of the other models. Anyone else ???????

- Bob
Bob,
I am not aware of any, 1999, K1200LT with the newer linked (integrated) braking system. Did you ride it enough to verify the type of system? It is easy to recognize over a conventional system once you have ridden it a bit. The brochures from 1999, and 2000 say nothing about , linked ,or integrated. To the best of my knowledge the 2002s were the first with the newer braking systems. On their other hand I was wrong once , but I can't remember when that was.

As pointed out by other posts, integrated is the correct term, however you may have received some inaccurate advice from the BMW sales people. Often the guy on the dealership floor is the new hire and they have a tendency to get, technical matters , mixed up sometimes, like ABS Vs, Linked Vs, Integrated Vs, Power Assisted, etc. All the LTs have ABS, I believe that is the common thread shared by the different years.
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post #18 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 10:52 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Hey, Bob - more fodder. Toad has a pinhole leak in the rear brake line - I need to get it fixed and when I do, it's going back with braided lines. Butt, I found the leak by stabbing the foot brake and tracing the fluid splatter on the inside of a tupperware piece. When I wuz squeezing the hand brake in search of the leak location, the pinhole never dribbled. So, I'm guessing no linked brakes for Toad, an early '99. HTH.
First of all people from South Carolina, even cowboys, don't know what the hell they're talking about, I should know. Secondly, Dick you better quarantine that dang Toad. I just received a new rear brake line to replace one that developed a pin hole leak under the tupperware. What gives here, first the rear brake relay and now the rear brake line? Let me know what you find on Toad next and I'll go ahead and take preventative measures.

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post #19 of 38 Old Jan 26th, 2006, 11:20 pm
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[Quote] If it says"BMW" on the outside of the caliper, the Bike has the newer integrated/power assist brakes! If it says "Brembo" the Bike has the older ABS without the integration or power assist! John [Quote]
John,
That about explains it in a nutshell. If you had spoken earlier then you would have saved a lot of model year explanations and technical language argument. I don't know why I did not think of that.
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post #20 of 38 Old Jan 27th, 2006, 1:51 am
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I also purchased a used Y2K bike with NOT wanting the power/linked brakes of the 02/03 bikes when mine was purchased.

Do my own work on the bike, so service issues with the earlier bikes was a non issue.

The taller 5th gear is indeed a better gas mileage issue too.

If the price is right Why not purchase another.

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post #21 of 38 Old Jan 27th, 2006, 5:06 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFish
Motorman587 said:
"All of you are wrong, Honda has linked and BMW has intergraded. Lets use the right wording, now. I am getting confused."

OK John, I agree that perhaps linked is incorrect, but so is "intergraded"! The correct word is integrated. And once and for all everybody, the early LT's did not have that, or the power assist!

Evidently the '02 was the first year for both of those features. Quick way to tell is to look at the calipers on the Bikes. If it says"BMW" on the outside of the caliper, the Bike has the newer integrated/power assist brakes! If it says "Brembo" the Bike has the older ABS without the integration or power assist!

Nuff said?

John
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post #22 of 38 Old Jan 27th, 2006, 8:10 am Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info guys.

Doc
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post #23 of 38 Old Jan 27th, 2006, 11:45 am
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99

for whatever its worth
i got a 99 LT last year....had about 70k or so on it
so far ive put about 15k on it
nothing but good fun riding

i think its my 6th? or 7th bike and by far the best

wife loves it too!
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post #24 of 38 Old Jan 27th, 2006, 1:58 pm
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'99 Ltc

I have an early '99 LTC and have owned since in was new, March of 1999. I have had my share of trouble with it but I will try to set some of the misinformation in this tread straight.

First there were three versions in '99, standard, icon and custom. The differences all had to do with options and chrome. I've forgotton what exactly the differences were with the standard and icon but the custom (LTC) had heated seats, rider and passenger with separate switches, heated grips, a "comfort seat", 6 changer CD, cruise control, and a small info screen that includes current temp., average mpg, miles to empty and average speed.

All had independent (front and rear) non power assisted ABS.

Many of these bikes but by no means all have had rear drive failures. I have had two in 45,000 miles. There was a problem with the throttle cables which BMW solved with a revise design and in some cases replaced under warranty (I had to pay for mine). The maintenance as with all LT1200's is either labor or cost intensive but not particularly difficult. I purchaced a service manual and Paul Seyegh's service video's (which I highly recommend) and do all the routine maintenance at home. While this takes some time it is not difficult or expensive from a parts standpoint and I enjoy it.

I think they are great handling bikes, comfortable and fun to ride. The only really serious drawback and one that drives me crazy from time to time is the risk of trouble with the final drive. I'm not sure it is possible to predict the reliability of this assembly and trust me it is a real pain in the ass to have a failure in a remote place.

My first failure occured near home (Las Vegas at that time) and I was able to limp to the dealer. BMW told the dealer to rebuild it and although I was past the expiration of the warranty on time but not miles 28,000 at the time they furnished the parts and I paid for the labor which came to $300 or so. At the time I was pleased with this result. Unfortunately, it failed again at about 41,000 miles and I was in a remote area of Eastern Washington at the time. I had to hich a ride to a small townh, rent a Uhaul truck and haul it to Beaudry Motorsports in Post Falls, Idaho (not a fun day). Beaudry didn't rebulild rear drive's but had one air freighted in and replaced complete the rear drive and had me back on the road in a couple of days at a cost of $1550 (no help from BMW).

During the entire time I have owned this bike I have had other motorcycles and I have in several cases ridden other bikes or trailered a smaller bike on several trips because of my frustration with the risk of failure if I rode the LT. My rear drive was replaced in September of 2004 (I don't know whether I have the "new and improved 17 ball version but I would assume so based on the time it was ordered) and I have finally decided that I will just ride it and try not to let it worry me. If I have trouble again I will decide what to do about it then.

If you are OK with that risk (remember that many have had no trouble) it's a great bike and the '99 can now be purchaced at great prices. In my opinion the small increase in power and changes in brakes and handling in the more recent years are not nearly worth the extra money.

I think I'll now go put on my fireproof clothes.

Jerry Miller
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post #25 of 38 Old Jan 28th, 2006, 9:35 am Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply Jerry.I have the 02 and I worry a little about rear drive failure as well. Haven't seen another touring bike that I like as well. I really like the looks of the new Rt, but the misses rides with me a lot and I don't think it would be near as comfortable.

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post #26 of 38 Old Jan 28th, 2006, 10:13 am
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Good bikes in 99

My 2000 (99 build date) has:

hot weather hesitation (unplug airbox temp sensor, run only high test or leave sensor plugged in and expect occasional hesitation when acceleration off low rpms in hot weather. I keep the rpms up and have no problems but I live in cool latitudes).

Starter relay welding (never happened to me, and I have the orignial relay. Don't let your battery get bad; learn the procedure to unstick the relay incase it does happen. You can replace the relay with an updated one, expensive and unnecessary in my opinion.

Final drive failure (never happened to me, 40K+ miles so far. It may make sense to proactively replace the crown wheel bearing, I haven't yet, but may do it sometime).

The CD player stills skips a little on hard bumps, but with slight modifications I made it work much better then it did orignially.

I prefer the un-linked brakes. No the brakes are not linked. Easier to do the brake fluid service. I also like feathering the rear brake in aggressive riding through the twisties and I want separate controls. I know they are not linked because I have a habit of locking up the brakes on dirt roads every once in a while just to see if the ABS is still working. Foot pedal locks the rear wheel, front brake lever locks the front wheel; they are most definitely not linked, just ABS.

If I were looking for another LT I'd look for a cheap low mileage 99-01 without linked brakes. Not a perfect machine, but a very good one.

HTH
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post #27 of 38 Old Jan 28th, 2006, 11:16 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
This is NOT a real big deal, Vince, but I appeal to the larger LT community. My understanding is that the LT had linked brakes from the very first model in 1999. By this, I mean "fully linked": hit the front brake and you get front and rear; hit the rear brake and you get rear and front. The RT had "semi-linked" brakes: hit the front and you get front and rear; hit the rear and you get only rear. The only extra that came in 2002 was power brakes. What say you - who is correct here ???

- Bob
Bob, having been throughly through both the ABSII (99-01) and Integral/EVO (02-04, 05-) systems, and having owned an '00, '02 and '05, I can definitively say that there is *no* hydraulic interconnection of any sort in the ABSII system. The only connection between the two is electrical -- they share the same brake lights

Interconnected hydraulics only came with the Integral system in 02 (01 in Yurup and Canuck-land, IIRC).

Mark Neblett
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post #28 of 38 Old Jan 28th, 2006, 8:36 pm
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Thanks, Mark - and all others who pointed out my error on the brakes.

Here’s the source of my confusion re the linking of brakes on the ’99 LT: from the ’99 LT brochure from BMW, “The K1200LT features new EVO triple disk brakes and partially-linked integral ABS.” I suspect this means that something is linked (or partially so) when the ABS activates – not the same as “linked brakes”. I read this too fast, and didn’t catch its correct meaning. I saw a sentence with "brakes" and "linked" in it, and erroneously concluded that the '99 LT had linked (or integral) brakes.

It does seem that those of you saying the ’99 LT does NOT have linked (or integral) brakes are correct. My apologies. Hope noone was misled by my error.


- Bob

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post #29 of 38 Old Jan 28th, 2006, 10:28 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
Here’s the source of my confusion re the linking of brakes on the ’99 LT: from the ’99 LT brochure from BMW, “The K1200LT features new EVO triple disk brakes and partially-linked integral ABS.” I suspect this means that something is linked (or partially so) when the ABS activates – not the same as “linked brakes”. I read this too fast, and didn’t catch its correct meaning. I saw a sentence with "brakes" and "linked" in it, and erroneously concluded that the '99 LT had linked (or integral) brakes.
Ah-ha! That may be the problem. Are you *sure* that's a '99 brochure? The EVO brakes were not introduced to the LT until '01 in Yurup, and '02 in the US. IIRC, they did not debut at Intermot until 2001, so they could not have been on the '99s. Any dates (copyrights, etc.) on the brochure?

Mark Neblett
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post #30 of 38 Old Jan 29th, 2006, 8:50 am
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I agree, "linked" is a Honda term.

and if we are fighting about wording then it is called "integral ABS equipped" or "partial integrel ABS equipped".

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post #31 of 38 Old Jan 29th, 2006, 2:41 pm
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Not misled Bob. Just figured your cowboy hat was too tight.

<runnin' and a duckin'>

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post #32 of 38 Old Feb 1st, 2006, 4:17 am
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Mark got it right. The correct term is Integral. I posted a better description on the old site, which I'll copy here for reference:

Technically, the LT's brakes are neither Linked nor Integrated as they don't fall easily into either of those definitions. BMW Motorrad uses the term Integral to refer to the 2002 and up brakes (2001 in Europe/Canada).

Yes, they are power assisted, but they are also controlled by a small processor that varies the front and rear braking forces applied depending on wheel speed, lever forces applied, and other conditions. At driving speeds and normal conditions, you will get a similar response from either the front or rear lever. But at slower speeds, the front brake lever has much more effect on the front wheel and the rear brake can be applied without generating any noticeable force on the front wheel. That's what makes slow-speed u-turns possible. Add to that the ABS functions, which attempts to limit wheel lockups under heavy braking or in slick conditions, and the power assist, which multiplies the forces exerted by the brake levers onto the calipers.

I know that some of the older Gold Wings had one front and the rear caliper connected to the rear lever, while the front lever operated the other front caliper. That setup (and linking all calipers to both levers) can easily be accomplished by just rerouting the hydraulic plumbing. Honda's current Linked Braking System uses multi-piston calipers with some brake pistons from each wheel hooked to the front lever and the others hooked to the rear lever, but again this is just a trick of plumbing with no real intelligence or active compensation. The BMW Integral Power ABS unit is much more sophisticated and active unit that doesn't really fit into those classifications.

As for the original question, the '99 LTs are fine bikes that can be had at decent prices. The few problems are known and can be easily sorted out if the bike has been maintained well.

Ken
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post #33 of 38 Old Feb 1st, 2006, 7:34 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
Ah-ha! That may be the problem. Are you *sure* that's a '99 brochure? The EVO brakes were not introduced to the LT until '01 in Yurup, and '02 in the US. IIRC, they did not debut at Intermot until 2001, so they could not have been on the '99s. Any dates (copyrights, etc.) on the brochure?
Yup. It gets worser & worser. Just looked it up - date on the brochure is 2002. I thought it was from my first LT, a 1999 model.

I'm gonna crawl into a hole for a few months - see y'all later.

- Bob

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post #34 of 38 Old Feb 1st, 2006, 7:49 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
Yup. It gets worser & worser. Just looked it up - date on the brochure is 2002. I thought it was from my first LT, a 1999 model.

I'm gonna crawl into a hole for a few months - see y'all later.

- Bob
They tell you what the first sign of seni ..... uhh .... senili .....unhhhh, what wuz the question again?!?!?!
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post #35 of 38 Old Feb 4th, 2006, 4:39 am
 
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linked brakes

the lt brakes are linked just from jun 2001 the oll brakes system is not the same olso the abs is not the same end oll full system is not the seme like the 2000 model
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post #36 of 38 Old Feb 4th, 2006, 7:04 am
 
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[QUOTE=patrick2000][Quote] If it says"BMW" on the outside of the caliper, the Bike has the newer integrated/power assist brakes! If it says "Brembo" the Bike has the older ABS without the integration or power assist! John [Quote]


Mine was made Feburary 2001 and has BMW on the calipers.there is also a warning sticker on my fuel tank about the power assist brakes
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post #37 of 38 Old Feb 4th, 2006, 11:26 am
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My ID label tells me it is a '99A model and as far as I know they are original brakes. I know for sure there is no linking/integration there. Don't know if it is power assisted but I do know the ABS works really well as I have tried it out once or twice.

Orange, NSW
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post #38 of 38 Old Feb 4th, 2006, 2:16 pm
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Hey Dez,

It's a BMW NA marketing thing. My '02 was made on 01/01, but it was still called an '02 here in the States. Anywhere else it would simply have been an '01, with the same features as it has now.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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