HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 38 Old Jun 11th, 2009, 10:56 pm Thread Starter
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HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Hi guys

OK, this issue has been on\off trillion time on here and im STUCKED...

i got my bike in the shop and guy told me with confidence yes he can do it and NOW he is suddenly NOT,,and every loonie in this country seems to unite and say against me and you guys that whole engine must be removed before clusch can be changed,, so i need serious of pictures what i can print out what shows Step by step how to loosen up the engine and tilt it,, would some one be so nice and post it for me

also if some one has done hude LT'S Cluch change manual for DUMMIES,,I would in need of that Book,,,

oh yeah when i said im stucked i mean it, bike in pieces now 1month,,,so i really need HELP
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post #2 of 38 Old Jun 11th, 2009, 11:10 pm
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

remove the rear wheel, final drive, (look up kevin cooks write up on slave cylinder change) and that should get you to having the swing arm removed, remove the transmission and there is your clutch. ( very abreviated version) To get to this part can take up to 12 hours.

This is a major undertaking, if you can order a clymer manual that will be a great help..
You do NOT need to remove the engine, but you do need to drop it down a bit to get the transmission out. Good luck with it.
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post #3 of 38 Old Jun 11th, 2009, 11:15 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldan2
remove the rear wheel, final drive, (look up kevin cooks write up on slave cylinder change) and that should get you to having the swing arm removed, remove the transmission and there is your clutch. ( very abreviated version) To get to this part can take up to 12 hours.

This is a major undertaking, if you can order a clymer manual that will be a great help..
You do NOT need to remove the engine, but you do need to drop it down a bit to get the transmission out. Good luck with it.

Done all that until removing drive shaft a that is what my mechanic cant remove from Clutch side, how that can be removed?

also i tryed to tell him to tilt it but he is hesitnt as ALL mechanics here say that it can be done,so that why i'm looking for picture to proof to them wrong.

[IMG][/IMG]

i have all manual and slave cylinder is off already and yes oil in there, main problem is to remove shaft from Clutch casing before opening the clutch compartment.

Last edited by K1200LT-TH; Jun 11th, 2009 at 11:26 pm.
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post #4 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 12:51 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Found this on the net, maybe of some help

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7336759/BM...-Repair-Manual
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post #5 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 1:03 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

'Done all that until removing drive shaft a that is what my mechanic cant remove from Clutch side, how that can be removed?'
The shaft is held in with a spring clip. Simply pull firmly and it will come out.
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post #6 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 1:26 am Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

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Originally Posted by mjordans2000
'Done all that until removing drive shaft a that is what my mechanic cant remove from Clutch side, how that can be removed?'
The shaft is held in with a spring clip. Simply pull firmly and it will come out.
Is that really that simple?just pull firmly? it wont destroy anything inside and then when put it back same but in reverce order,just push it back in?
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post #7 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 1:29 am Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by simoncharles
Found this on the net, maybe of some help

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7336759/BM...-Repair-Manual
Thanx mate,i have all the manuals already.
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post #8 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 5:12 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Marco

What stage is the dismantlin gat?

Is the swing arm off? I have attached a pdf of a page from the manualwhich shows swing arm and drive shaft. I have inserted a flat bladed screwdriver at the gearbox end and been able to prise the shaft off.

Any chance of pictures?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf swing arm.pdf (154.2 KB, 317 views)

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post #9 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 7:32 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

You can use a pry bar to push the shaft to the rear. Just be SURE that you have something to "pry" against.. like a board or other metal object to "spread" the leveraged load out... Gentle prying against the case can be done... but hard to describe how to do that.

Using a pry bar will give you a little more "control" of pressure... As you are applying the pressure you will "overcome" the internal "spring" retainer pressure...then the shaft should slide out.

Take a picture of you holding the removed driveshaft and smiling when done.
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post #10 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 8:14 am Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamw
Marco

What stage is the dismantlin gat?

Is the swing arm off? I have attached a pdf of a page from the manualwhich shows swing arm and drive shaft. I have inserted a flat bladed screwdriver at the gearbox end and been able to prise the shaft off.

Any chance of pictures?
grahamw
Yes swing arm is gone already and saft was taken out right after i got info about internal spring so i could not get picture of it and also now tilting has started but bit difficult as i still dont know if it's strait forward just tilt it or is there something to look after what might get bended or damaged while tilting the engine? but work is well on the way and HUGE thanx so far for you guys, tomorrow i will take some pictures of progress and will let you guys know,,

Anything else i should know?

Ps: Remebember,i have no mechanical skills to bike so im doing by word to his head and thats how we need more info,,,im telling to him what to do and he do it...LOL

he how ever is exelent mechanic as his sone ride's motocross in Thai national team,he's 14yrs old in his Suzuki 250's
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post #11 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 9:23 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Congratulations. And yes, simply push the drive shaft back in. There are discussions on 'phasing' the drive shaft as part of the clutch slave cylinder replacement instructions posted on this site. You can get away without doing that but it is wise to do. It assures the best possible drive shaft balance which minimizes vibration.
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post #12 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 9:41 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Marco

You have to have the fuel tank and air box of at least. If you look to the rear and above the drivers footpegs there is a hole in the frame at the same point each side - this gives access to the big long bolt shown on the attached pdf.

Regards
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File Type: pdf gear box.pdf (68.1 KB, 534 views)

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post #13 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 9:32 pm
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Here is a link to a GREAT thread WITH PICTURES that helped me a LOT with how to raise the frame from the engine just enough to get the transmission out and gain access to the clutch area:

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...ch+replacement

Also, there are more photographs in this thread too:

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19720

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post #14 of 38 Old Jun 12th, 2009, 11:04 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Thnx guys

very helpfull indeed.

i did noticefrom many pictures that TANK has been removed? is it nesessary? unless i change air filter same time
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post #15 of 38 Old Jun 13th, 2009, 12:38 pm
 
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Exclamation Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

WELL, STOP NOW AND TAKE IT TO YOUR LOCAL BMW SHOP...THERE ARE A FEW "SPECIAL-TOOLS NEEDED TO DO THIS OPERATION PROPERLY"
NOW, I AM "NOT" SAYING YOU CAN'T DO IT..IF YOU ARE A EXCELLENT "BMW" TECH. THEN, HAVE AT-IT!!!
BUT I HAVE REPLACED MY ENGINE IN MY K1200LT ,FINAL DRIVE, AND "CLUTCH" WHAT A DAMN JOB THIS IS.. YOU MUST SAVE YOUR PENNIES AND COME UP WITH A MINIMUM OF..... $1,140.00... NO KIDDING. NOW LISTEN, THE BMW TECH. HAS ALL THE TOOLS AND MOST IMPORTLY "EXPERIENCE" I AM NOT FOOLING AROUND HERE; THIS IS NOT A JOB FOR THE STANDARD WRENCH!!!
TAKE MY ADVICE,,, THIS IS A MONSTER JOB!!!
BEST OF LUCK AND LET ME KNOW WHICH DIRECTION YOU CHOOSE!!!
LANE HANNER
ELY, NEVADA 89301


OK, this issue has been on\off trillion time on here and im STUCKED...

i got my bike in the shop and guy told me with confidence yes he can do it and NOW he is suddenly NOT,,and every loonie in this country seems to unite and say against me and you guys that whole engine must be removed before clusch can be changed,, so i need serious of pictures what i can print out what shows Step by step how to loosen up the engine and tilt it,, would some one be so nice and post it for me

also if some one has done hude LT'S Cluch change manual for DUMMIES,,I would in need of that Book,,,

oh yeah when i said im stucked i mean it, bike in pieces now 1month,,,so i really need HELP[/QUOTE]
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post #16 of 38 Old Jun 14th, 2009, 9:51 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1200LT-TH
Thnx guys

very helpfull indeed.

i did noticefrom many pictures that TANK has been removed? is it nesessary? unless i change air filter same time
Remove the tank... set it on a "saw horse" so that it is supported on the center.. keeps tank from spreading...

Change filter while in there.. or at least make sure it's clean... be careful not to let trash into the intakes.
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post #17 of 38 Old Jun 14th, 2009, 5:34 pm
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogiboy74
WELL, STOP NOW AND TAKE IT TO YOUR LOCAL BMW SHOP...THERE ARE A FEW "SPECIAL-TOOLS NEEDED TO DO THIS OPERATION PROPERLY"
NOW, I AM "NOT" SAYING YOU CAN'T DO IT..IF YOU ARE A EXCELLENT "BMW" TECH. THEN, HAVE AT-IT!!!
BUT I HAVE REPLACED MY ENGINE IN MY K1200LT ,FINAL DRIVE, AND "CLUTCH" WHAT A DAMN JOB THIS IS.. YOU MUST SAVE YOUR PENNIES AND COME UP WITH A MINIMUM OF..... $1,140.00... NO KIDDING. NOW LISTEN, THE BMW TECH. HAS ALL THE TOOLS AND MOST IMPORTLY "EXPERIENCE" I AM NOT FOOLING AROUND HERE; THIS IS NOT A JOB FOR THE STANDARD WRENCH!!!
TAKE MY ADVICE,,, THIS IS A MONSTER JOB!!!
BEST OF LUCK AND LET ME KNOW WHICH DIRECTION YOU CHOOSE!!!
LANE HANNER
ELY, NEVADA 89301
TURN YOUR CAPS LOCK OFF! It looks to me like you are shouting! The guy is trying to get help from this group, and will probably come out the other side with lots of new found knowledge. If you can't do the job yourself, it doesn't mean someone else isn't capable given the right guidance. -rant mode off-

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post #18 of 38 Old Jun 14th, 2009, 9:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by myk_edwards
TURN YOUR CAPS LOCK OFF! It looks to me like you are shouting! The guy is trying to get help from this group, and will probably come out the other side with lots of new found knowledge. If you can't do the job yourself, it doesn't mean someone else isn't capable given the right guidance. -rant mode off-
Thanx Mike

I like your responce,, i was just looking for aroriate answewer as i know that sooo many guys has done this by them selfs and i have changed car engines but never done anything to bikes,,and this is like you said "Learning" experience step by step instructions from you guys what is HUGE thanx for every one so far,,,
done a lot already and i'll try to take some photos soon so you guys can see how we are doing in here..

Btw, nearist beemer work shop is abt 800km (500mil)away and they dont want to do this as some one else already took it in parts already,, thats how it works here in Thailand
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post #19 of 38 Old Jun 17th, 2009, 6:21 am Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

OK guys

Look what i found,,,,hahahahahaas we open it today just few hrs ago








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post #20 of 38 Old Jun 17th, 2009, 9:38 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

OH MAN........
Wow. That's just plain NASTY to look at
That's worse than watching a horror movie! Dang. I hope I can sleep tonight!!

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
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post #21 of 38 Old Jun 17th, 2009, 6:07 pm
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

WoW I would say that was slipping!! I can'rt wait to tear mine down and see how bad it is.

John
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post #22 of 38 Old Jun 18th, 2009, 5:37 am Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

TODAY's pictures and few NEW questions,,i will have NEW questons every day,,,so feel free to leave your opininons,,,again all are appriciated

When the Housing cover is removed,, is it ok the engine oil comes out like this?

You can see small drops at 6 a clock, there is continues flow of engine oil,, comments?

IF it's not ok, what seal is that and any one has part number for it?





Also when removing clutch release rod, there is kind of Seal in the middle??? that was completely vaporiced or just plain old and when touched it went to pieces,,any one know what is part number for that?

2nd important question,, taking trasmission cover out,, is it comes easilly or is there some "trick?
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post #23 of 38 Old Jun 18th, 2009, 6:51 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

You will get a little oil dripping when you remove the clutch drive plate from the engine output shaft, no issue there. However, most of us who have done this job suggest that once you have it down this far go ahead and replace the engine output seal, AND the O-ring! The O-ring is the normal culprit rather than the seal, as it gets hard and cracks. Often have to dig it out in pieces. It would be great to find a Viton O-ring to replace it with. Don't know if anyone ever came up with a source for one though.

The "seal" on the actuator rod is a felt sleeve. It does not seal anything. What I was told by my dealer's long time mechanic was that it was there to keep the rod from rattling inside the tranny shaft. The part number is 23 21 1 230 440, about $3. Put a little oil on it when re-assembling.

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post #24 of 38 Old Jun 18th, 2009, 5:05 pm
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1200LT-TH
Thanx Mike

I like your responce,, i was just looking for aroriate answewer as i know that sooo many guys has done this by them selfs and i have changed car engines but never done anything to bikes,,and this is like you said "Learning" experience step by step instructions from you guys what is HUGE thanx for every one so far,,,
done a lot already and i'll try to take some photos soon so you guys can see how we are doing in here..

Btw, nearist beemer work shop is abt 800km (500mil)away and they dont want to do this as some one else already took it in parts already,, thats how it works here in Thailand
Just a quick side track to say thanks for this discussion. I still have to do mine but summer is taking over and it's getting harder to allot the time. I did get a dealer quote for $1700 to do the clutch and engine/trans seals, but they wanted another $350 to do the slave even though they were already in there. I think I got scared straight but I'm still on the fence. Getting real tired of driving the cage and staring at the beautiful unrideable bike in the garage. This thread and the ones like it are pumping me up though. Thanks,

Dan
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post #25 of 38 Old Jun 19th, 2009, 5:03 am Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1200LT-TH
OK guys

Look what i found,,,,hahahahahaas we open it today just few hrs ago
Guys

need HELp on this part,,, I think my gear box is leaking oil to clutch so how can i open this part and change seal around the saft?

we tryed today and was difficult to get it open,,,

also would be nice if you have part number for that seal aslo.

THEN NEW issue

i have heard pinion seal and other seal in somewhere in back,, could some one point me in the right direction so i can see if those need to be changed also
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post #26 of 38 Old Jun 19th, 2009, 3:35 pm
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

The photot is blocked here at work but if that is the front of the gearbox, just lever the seal out and press the new one in place. No need to take any thing apart. I know it looks recessed, but it will come out.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
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post #27 of 38 Old Jun 19th, 2009, 9:17 pm
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglenn1
Just a quick side track to say thanks for this discussion. I still have to do mine but summer is taking over and it's getting harder to allot the time. I did get a dealer quote for $1700 to do the clutch and engine/trans seals, but they wanted another $350 to do the slave even though they were already in there. I think I got scared straight but I'm still on the fence. Getting real tired of driving the cage and staring at the beautiful unrideable bike in the garage. This thread and the ones like it are pumping me up though. Thanks,
Perhaps a couple of tech sessions would help. I feel that in 1 day we can take the beast apart enough to get to the clutch and seals. I have the 30mm cutout socket and the cut 14mm allen required for the swing arm re-install.
Wanna get the parts and call in for some reinforcement? Just a thought...

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post #28 of 38 Old Jun 19th, 2009, 11:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
The photot is blocked here at work but if that is the front of the gearbox, just lever the seal out and press the new one in place. No need to take any thing apart. I know it looks recessed, but it will come out.
It is gear box side what comes facing to Clutch, NOT that side where slave cylinder will come.

i have to say that i have got Fantastic help here and i can say that any one can do this with help of guys like you,, mank you very many
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post #29 of 38 Old Jun 20th, 2009, 1:32 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Perhaps a couple of tech sessions would help. I feel that in 1 day we can take the beast apart enough to get to the clutch and seals. I have the 30mm cutout socket and the cut 14mm allen required for the swing arm re-install.
Wanna get the parts and call in for some reinforcement? Just a thought...
Thanks! If I start it tomorrow I'll throw a note on the Southwest forum. Will also have some ribs on the grill as added incentive. I have the socket and the allen i bought from Dave Shealey when he did a run. Got a run some kids around in the morning, so not entirely sure it will all come together.

Dan
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post #30 of 38 Old Jun 21st, 2009, 9:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1200LT-TH
It is gear box side what comes facing to Clutch, NOT that side where slave cylinder will come.

i have to say that i have got Fantastic help here and i can say that any one can do this with help of guys like you,, mank you very many

Hey guys

Any one comment on this as i need to know if i have to change that seal and regarding of pinion seal on the final drive
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post #31 of 38 Old Jun 22nd, 2009, 12:52 am
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Hello
While you have it stripped down, replace all the seals you can, that way you hopefully will not have to do it again, i did my clutch change, & did all the seals i could, when you take in the amount of work & time to strip the bike down, the seals are the cheapest items.
Regards
Stevie
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post #32 of 38 Old Jun 22nd, 2009, 1:11 am Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Stevie

thanx for advice,,but bit tricky is that how to open gear box,, if you can see that picture what i posted,,that side is not open even we tryed and everything is loose.

then I have pilion seal,,but i dont know where it is located,,,I know,, this is hilarious,,but i ordered all back side seals what i was told,,and i was not in the garage when my mechanic took it in the parts and now im left out like a snow man,,i have seals but no idea where it goes...
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post #33 of 38 Old Jun 22nd, 2009, 9:32 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

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Stevie

thanx for advice,,but bit tricky is that how to open gear box,, if you can see that picture what i posted,,that side is not open even we tryed and everything is loose.

then I have pilion seal,,but i dont know where it is located,,,I know,, this is hilarious,,but i ordered all back side seals what i was told,,and i was not in the garage when my mechanic took it in the parts and now im left out like a snow man,,i have seals but no idea where it goes...
any advice for this..please
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post #34 of 38 Old Jun 22nd, 2009, 11:10 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

OK, bit more clarification for my previous posts,, this is what im looking for now,, advice please,,sooner i get info sooner i can get part to be ordered and my LT back on the road

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post #35 of 38 Old Jun 23rd, 2009, 1:37 pm
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

That seal comes out from that side of the bike. John Zieler was correct when he said to stick a screw driver down in there and work it out. You put the new one by sliding down the shaft and making sure that is seats in as far as that one.

If you need part numbers for the seals you can find all of them on micro fiche at A&S Cycles. Pick the K1200LT model year that matches your bike. Then take your parts list to dealer and you are all set.

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post #36 of 38 Old Jun 23rd, 2009, 2:16 pm
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

As has been stated, that seal comes out in the direction as shown in the part diagram below. In other words...as you're looking at that photo...the seals pulls out toward you.

The part number is 23127705086

Before you start pulling this seal, be sure to measure how deep it is seated within that recessed area. Reason being; you want your new seal to be at the same depth. DO NOT HAMMER THE NEW SEAL IN UNTIL IT SEATS. BMW makes special tools for seating these seals (as seen in the 2nd picture below). These tools prevent driving the seals in too far. You don't NEED the special tool, but you do need to be sure you drive them to the proper depth, and no further!

These seals can be very tricky to get out. First try drilling a very small hole in the center of the ring. Then thread on a coarse wood screw...and try pulling on that to remove. It might take a few tries..and a few holes to get it. Just be careful not the damage the housing/recessed area.


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post #37 of 38 Old Jun 23rd, 2009, 2:23 pm
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman
As has been stated, that seal comes out in the direction as shown in the part diagram below. In other words...as you're looking at that photo...the seals pulls out toward you.

The part number is 23127705086

Before you start pulling this seal, be sure to measure how deep it is seated within that recessed area. Reason being; you want your new seal to be at the same depth. DO NOT HAMMER THE NEW SEAL IN UNTIL IT SEATS. These seals can be very tricky to get out. First try drilling a very small hole in the center of the ring. Then thread on a coarse wood screw...and try pulling on that to remove. It might take a few tries..and a few holes to get it. Just be careful not the damage the housing/recessed area.
Excellent idea. Wish I'd though of it.

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post #38 of 38 Old Jun 23rd, 2009, 8:56 pm Thread Starter
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Re: HUGE problem with my clutch replacement,HELP needed

WOOOW,, thanx a lot guys,, now it got it,,, faaaanntastic,,,thanx a lot

also well explained the depth measuring and how to removed,, love this forum...

will keep yu updated how all goes.
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