Next-Gen KXX00LT Rumor Update (MERGED THREAD FEST) - BMW Luxury Touring Community
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 2:02 pm Thread Starter
Bouncer
 
eljeffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Allen, TX, USA
Posts: 9,315
Next-Gen KXX00LT Rumor Update (MERGED THREAD FEST)

A very reliable source has told me the following information regarding the next-gen K1200LT:
  • The next-gen LT launch date has been moved back by 1 year. It will arrive at Intermot in the fall of 2008 and arrive in the spring of 2009
  • Because for the new K1200GT, sales of LTs and RTs have dropped off significantly, while the GT sales pipeline is so hot, it's off the scale
  • The backlog of K1200LTs in inventory and production, based on the slowing sales, has caused BMW to continue with the current-gen K1200LT through the 2008 model year.
  • BMW has been tracking trade-ins very closely with the new K1200GT. The majority of trade-ins for the new GT is from RT and LT riders, helping to drive this decision making at BMW
  • Based on what happens with K1200LT sales over the next 2 years, BMW may or may not decide to produce a next-gen K1200LT, leaving the K1200GT and R1200RT as the two choices for 2-up luxury touring
What does this mean?

To me, it means that if K1200LT sales do not pick up in the next year, there might not be a K1200LT past this current generation. It also means that demand is currently driving production and product development at BMW, which is a double-edged sword. High demand for the GT might cannibalize the existing LT and RT markets and drive the next-gen K1200LT off the development list.

On a side note, I've heard that the rumors of a radio/audio system in the next-gen K1200GT have been GREATLY exaggerated.

F800S/ST is still slated for next spring in the US. No pricing has been announced, but the US dealer network has told BMW that if it doesn't come in at under $10K, not to bother.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________
El Jeffe
Plano, TX
'06 K1200GT Crystal Grey
'04 Sprint RS Caspian Blue

__________________

"I am hoping for an asteroid impact to put all this climate change nonsense to bed."
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eljeffe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 2:33 pm
Rider Journeyman
 
BillyOmaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Granite Bay, CA, USA
Posts: 2,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
.....What does this mean?

To me, it means that if K1200LT sales do not pick up in the next year, there might not be a K1200LT past this current generation. It also means that demand is currently driving production and product development at BMW, which is a double-edged sword. High demand for the GT might cannibalize the existing LT and RT markets and drive the next-gen K1200LT off the development list......
Man, oh man, Jeff.

Personally, I would love a GT for solo LD touring and even medium distance two-up runs. But for those of us that enjoy two-up LD riding, let 'em know that, if they drop the LT, there is going to be a large number of pillion partners that cast a BMW veto in favor of a GW.

Sincerely,
Someone waiting impatiently for a "S4" version K-LT.

.

Bill "Omaha"

"Life may have begun at 44, but it didn't get thrilling until I shot past 100"

'04 K1200LT "Dieter" Titan Silver, FB 4/23/04
'06 K1200R "Wolfgang" White Aluminum Metallic, FB 6/7/05

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
RCB AMA, BMWMOA, Booze Brother "in training"
CCR: '04 Breckenridge CO, '05 Jackson Lake Lodge WY, '06 Chateau Elan GA, '08 Midway UT


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
BillyOmaha is offline  
post #3 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 2:48 pm
Senior Member
 
bibleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wynantskill, NY, USA
Posts: 263
Sounds like BMW wants to get out of the two up touring market.

If the LT didn't exist, I would be riding an '06 Wing right now.

Seems like a foolhardy move to me.

'06 K1200LT Ocean Blue Metallic
'06 GL1800 Candy Black Cherry
Recovering Harley Rider
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

42° 41.663' N / 73° 38.651' W

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bibleman is offline  
 
post #4 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 2:56 pm
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyOmaha
[Personally, I would love a GT for solo LD touring and even medium distance two-up runs. But for those of us that enjoy two-up LD riding, let 'em know that, if they drop the LT, there is going to be a large number of pillion partners that cast a BMW veto in favor of a GW..
[/font]
my sentiments ed zachary.
KBandit is offline  
post #5 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 2:56 pm
Member
 
9771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Urbana, IL, USA
Posts: 49
I agree, except I really hate the idea of owning a Gold Wing.
I'll trade my current LT for the last model year LT and ride it forever!
9771 is offline  
post #6 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 2:57 pm
Senior Member
 
Florian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Coast, OH , USA
Posts: 1,165
Thats bad news....I was saving my sheckels for a new LT when they came out. Looks like a new GT is in my future instead.....
BMW there are 2 up LD riders out there....are you listening?




F
Florian is offline  
post #7 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 2:58 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
bmwhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Grapevine, TX, USA
Posts: 2,645
BMW needs to be careful not to repeat the logic error that led to New Coke. i.e. don't make decisions based on just one data point.

Just because RT and LT riders are trading for GTs now doesn't necessarily mean that's what they would do if there was a new LT to choose from too. They may be trading that way because they want a new bike now and the GT is the only alternative in the line that offers the next gen motor in a touring package.

Todd R.
Grapevine, TX USA

'78 R80/7
'06 FJR1300A

"You will now be thrown into the Obamaucracy. In his belly you will find a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly taxed to death over the next four years."
bmwhd is offline  
post #8 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 3:06 pm
Senior Member
 
Tallyho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Roseville (Gateway to the Sierras), CA, USA
Posts: 2,083
It's interesting that I always seem to get an update from my contact in Germany the same time Jeff gets an update. My contact confirms that the LT has been put back in the release cycle by 8-10 months but primarily due to engineering issues. Nothing mentioned about GT sales and I would offer that this same "logic" came out with the new RT as well. Without the ability to release the LT next year, the company is focused on the release two new 650 models in conjunction with a "rennsport" version of 800 to fill out their entry level stable. The proposed GS version of the 800 has also been moved back to a potential 2008 model if at all.

BMW designed the LT for the American market. However, their efforts seem very focused on the entry level power street bikes and dual sports preferred by new, one-up riders, including an increasing proliferation of females. The LT may well become the orphan and a number of us may be back on Goldwings in a few years. Is BMW saving the best for last or are they waffling on their commitment to two-up, luxury roadbikes? Just to keep the fire fanned, it was mentioned that there is a possibility BMW will release the new LT as a 10th Anniversary special.

Bob Morrow #4204
2014 K1600GTLE "Firefly" GTL 4 Two
2002 K1200LTE "Green Hornet" LT 4 Two (history)
"Kyrie Eleison down the road that I must travel"
Tallyho is offline  
post #9 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 3:09 pm Thread Starter
Bouncer
 
eljeffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Allen, TX, USA
Posts: 9,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyOmaha
Man, oh man, Jeff.

Personally, I would love a GT for solo LD touring and even medium distance two-up runs. But for those of us that enjoy two-up LD riding, let 'em know that, if they drop the LT, there is going to be a large number of pillion partners that cast a BMW veto in favor of a GW.

Sincerely,
Someone waiting impatiently for a "S4" version K-LT.

.
As I told Greg on the other site, it's only 2009. It's not like it's never.

Hell, a simple letter writing campaign to BMW might actually stimulate their interest in moving it back to 2008.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________
El Jeffe
Plano, TX
'06 K1200GT Crystal Grey
'04 Sprint RS Caspian Blue

__________________

"I am hoping for an asteroid impact to put all this climate change nonsense to bed."
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eljeffe is offline  
post #10 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 3:12 pm Thread Starter
Bouncer
 
eljeffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Allen, TX, USA
Posts: 9,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallyho
It's interesting that I always seem to get an update from my contact in Germany the same time Jeff gets an update. My contact confirms that the LT has been put back in the release cycle by 8-10 months but primarily due to engineering issues. Nothing mentioned about GT sales and I would offer that this same "logic" came out with the new RT as well. Without the ability to release the LT next year, the company is focused on the release two new 650 models in conjunction with a "rennsport" version of 800 to fill out their entry level stable. The proposed GS version of the 800 has also been moved back to a potential 2008 model if at all.

BMW designed the LT for the American market. However, their efforts seem very focused on the entry level power street bikes and dual sports preferred by new, one-up riders, including an increasing proliferation of females. The LT may well become the orphan and a number of us may be back on Goldwings in a few years. Is BMW saving the best for last or are they waffling on their commitment to two-up, luxury roadbikes? Just to keep the fire fanned, it was mentioned that there is a possibility BMW will release the new LT as a 10th Anniversary special.
Six degrees of seperation. And the mole at BMW is KEVIN BACON!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________
El Jeffe
Plano, TX
'06 K1200GT Crystal Grey
'04 Sprint RS Caspian Blue

__________________

"I am hoping for an asteroid impact to put all this climate change nonsense to bed."
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eljeffe is offline  
post #11 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 3:23 pm
Prodigal Son
 
early1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Posts: 1,297
Angry Say it ain't so--

The LT may well become the orphan and a number of us may be --BACK ON GOLDWINGS-- in a few years. Is BMW saving the best for last or are they waffling on their commitment to two-up, luxury roadbikes?

ed early
Life is a Blind Curve , Just Ride It, Low and Inside
'00' Canyon Red
early1 is offline  
post #12 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 3:31 pm
Senior Member
 
KMC1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SLC, UT, United States Of America
Posts: 2,337
If they're monitoring the trade ins on the GT now, hopefully they'll monitor the trade ins FROM the GT in a year or so when people start to realize that it's fast and it's smooth, but it's not anywhere near as comfortable or relaxing as the LT.
Personally I'd like to see the new gen LT come in with the weight reduction focus of these newer models, but without the new K engine. It's buzzy, fizzy and too fast, none of which lend themselves to getting out with the misses and taking in the scenery.
Although I could see myself getting an S or a GT for those times when I want to take off alone and ride something more sporty, I wouldn't get rid of my LT precisely because it is so comfy, roomy and smooth - especially 2-up.

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
KMC1 is offline  
post #13 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 3:33 pm
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkchaser1200
I agree, except I really hate the idea of owning a Gold Wing.
I'll trade my current LT for the last model year LT and ride it forever!
just curious ... what is it you hate so much about the very idea? don't you like the idea of huge dealer networks and rock-solid reliability?

i prefer BMW handling and brakes, and i was put off by a problem with breaking aluminum gold wing frames. but now that the frame problems are solved, and with much better electronics integration (not to mention the lingering spectre of rear-end failure in the BMW), i find myself drawn to the wing.

the BMW "cache" means nothing to me.

are you listening, BMW?
KBandit is offline  
post #14 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 3:37 pm
Senior Member
 
mneblett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
Posts: 5,406
I'm buying everything that jeff has posted at face value.

I'm not, however, buying into the subsequent suggestions that BMW may be considering getting out of the L[and yach]T business.

Doesn't make any sense to me:

-- The current business plan is to maintain and expand into new market niches -- dropping the flagship touring bike would be inconsistent with this.

-- BMW already has a significant amount of coin invested, both in the now-significantly-along next-gen LT development, and in the new K12 drivetrain, which benefits from every source of sales volume to amortize development costs. BMW Motorrad doesn't have the sort of spare cash lying around to causally pitch out the window based on momentary shifts in sales mix.

-- There's a "pride" factor involved -- BMW set a whole new standard in the touring market in 1998, and I'd be surprised to see tham be willing to quietly walk from a top-end market that they have at various times been on (or at least sharing) the top of -- just a gut-feel, but I don't see them "conceding" market supremacy to Honda or HD if there's at least a break-even business plan for a new LT.

That's enough reasons for now. My guess (which is as good as what yer payin' for it ): I still see a new LT in '09, introduced at the preceding Intermot.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
mneblett is offline  
post #15 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 3:43 pm
Prodigal Son
 
early1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Posts: 1,297
It ain't the name

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
just curious ... what is it you hate so much about the very idea? don't you like the idea of huge dealer networks and rock-solid reliability?

i prefer BMW handling and brakes, and i was put off by a problem with breaking aluminum gold wing frames. but now that the frame problems are solved, and with much better electronics integration (not to mention the lingering spectre of rear-end failure in the BMW), i find myself drawn to the wing.

the BMW "cache" means nothing to me.

are you listening, BMW?
Though I've only spent 1200 miles on an 05 ABS Wing an therefore am not an expert (But I do stay in Holiday Inns now and then)

IT AIN'T NO LT
Not in the brakes, not in the handling, etc
(and it is 2 early to tell if the frame problem is really gone for good)
However, what you said about DEALERS, overall reliability are spot on.
Also the TORQUE, oh baby. And get tires ANYWHERE almost ANY DAY.

Ditto--ARE YOU LISTENING BMW??

ed early
Life is a Blind Curve , Just Ride It, Low and Inside
'00' Canyon Red
early1 is offline  
post #16 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 3:54 pm Thread Starter
Bouncer
 
eljeffe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Allen, TX, USA
Posts: 9,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
i find myself drawn to the wing.
Gerhard,

Please don't wait. Run right out and get the wing right now.

BTW, you can find a whole new group of friends to annoy at www.gl1800.org


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________
El Jeffe
Plano, TX
'06 K1200GT Crystal Grey
'04 Sprint RS Caspian Blue

__________________

"I am hoping for an asteroid impact to put all this climate change nonsense to bed."
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eljeffe is offline  
post #17 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 3:59 pm
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
Gerhard,

Please don't wait. Run right out and get the wing right now.

BTW, you can find a whole new group of friends to annoy at www.gl1800.org
Ken is NOT proud of you...you big meany!
messenger13 is offline  
post #18 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 4:00 pm
Rider Journeyman
 
BillyOmaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Granite Bay, CA, USA
Posts: 2,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
As I told Greg on the other site, it's only 2009. It's not like it's never.

Hell, a simple letter writing campaign to BMW might actually stimulate their interest in moving it back to 2008.
You're right, Jeff, it just seems like forever

Honestly though, in another year, or two, my LT will be getting a bit "long in the tooth" and I was hoping the new version would be out by then. If it's '09, then so be it. I can wait. But I was focusing on the "discontinue" portion of the possible eventualities.

The point I would make, and will emphasize in a letter to BMW NA, is that solo BMW distance riders on an LT will stay with BMW (R-X, or K-X) regardless of whether the LT is available. The K-GT is a fantastic solo LD bike and an excellent alternative for those LT riders. However, I would also stress that two-up LD riders will not sacrifice comfort for the pillion.

If BMW drops the LT level of pillion pampering, and the K-GT is no LT in that department, then they will undoubtedly go elsewhere.

.



Bill "Omaha"

"Life may have begun at 44, but it didn't get thrilling until I shot past 100"

'04 K1200LT "Dieter" Titan Silver, FB 4/23/04
'06 K1200R "Wolfgang" White Aluminum Metallic, FB 6/7/05

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
RCB AMA, BMWMOA, Booze Brother "in training"
CCR: '04 Breckenridge CO, '05 Jackson Lake Lodge WY, '06 Chateau Elan GA, '08 Midway UT


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
BillyOmaha is offline  
post #19 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 4:07 pm
Senior Member
 
blouw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA, USA
Posts: 411
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
Gerhard,

Please don't wait. Run right out and get the wing right now.

BTW, you can find a whole new group of friends to annoy at www.gl1800.org
Interesting that first link below the pic on their home page is to "GL1800 Service Bulletins"

-Brian Louw
Arroyo Grande, CA.

2013 K1600GT - Light Grey Metallic
2016 R1200GSA
blouw is offline  
post #20 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 4:33 pm
Senior Member
 
dshealey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dandridge (Near Knoxville), TN, USA
Posts: 12,165
To drop the LT based on current trade in figures would be a mind boggling act of stupidity on behalf of BMW's marketing department.

Yes, people are trading LTs for GTs, but only because to get the new power and handling that is the only game in BMW town. The GT is quite a bike, and I really enjoyed my little test ride on one, but it is NOT a REPLACEMENT for the LT.

I consider the GT a "tweener". A nice, fun sport tourer, a step up from the older K GT, but it is still not a full tourer, and certainly will not take many, if any, sales away from the Goldwing. Yes, it is taking sales away from the current model of the LT, but would it fare the same with a new upgraded model? I think not. When introduced, a new LT could probably move some GT owners back into the LT stable again.

I was fully expecting a really nice step up for the LT, raising the bar yet again for Honda as they did in '99. If BMW drops the LT, it would be a bit of a tragedy in my opinion.

We have heard from BMW people who attended CCRs in the past that this was by far the most organized, knowledgeable, and enthusiastic single model group of owners in the BMW stable bar none. Why would they abandon us?

I liked the GT a lot, but it is not a (hopefully) new LT.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
dshealey is offline  
post #21 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 4:54 pm
Senior Member (ret.)
 
RaffyK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sacramento,, CA, USA
Posts: 10,857
I think they 'abandoned' us the day we gave them the IM award. Eventhough it was supposed to be fun, the 'damage' was done.



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!

Raffy
RaffyK is offline  
post #22 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 5:52 pm
Just ridin'
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Aurora, CO, USA
Posts: 5,294
There could be a number of reasons why the release of the K4x LT has been pushed back. Among them may be the fact that current LT sales have been soft enough to leave them with enough inventory on hand to satisfy sales for two more model years.

I believe that RT sales are actually getting a little stronger and we already know that GT demand is high - likely due, in part, to the low supply.

I doubt that BMW will abandon the LT, but if you look at their schizophrenic marketing of the entire brand in the US over the last several years, it would be very difficult to determine what they are trying to go for with regards to brand identity.

I would be hopeful that the delay is partially due to engineering issues, as that would bode well for a significantly changed (and hopefully significantly improved) product when it is finally released. They would be well-served by providing a robust and flexible communications and entertainment system as well as at least a six-speed transmission.

I would not characterize the 55-degree engine as buzzy or fussy, but you are certainly not as insulated from it with it solidly mounted to the frame. One thing that has been rumored is a possible increase in engine displacement - with the current bore at 79mm and stroke at 59mm compared to that to the current LT with 70.5mm bore and 75mm stroke (significantly "under square")you can see there is a lot of room for change. It is not hard to envision a 20% - 30% increase in displacement, while still having an "over square" engine. A 1400-1500cc engine could propel a touring bike at highway speeds while loafing along at 3-4000 rpm.

The improvements in serviceability and the apparent improvements in reliability in the new K4x powerplant would make a new LT based upon it a lot more attractive. The improvement to ride and handling on the K1200S,R and GT would make a new LT based on that platform a world-class tourer.

The last thing to throw in the mix is the persistent rumors of a significant change to the current GL1800 for 2009 or 2010. This could have BMW reviewing the design of the next-gen LT as well. 2010 would mark the GoldWing's 35th anniversary.

If the luxury touring motorcycle segment is one that both Honda and BMW want to court, the next few years could be very interesting.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

Just ride it!
Meet Riley

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Randy is offline  
post #23 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 5:55 pm
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by early1
IT AIN'T NO LT
Not in the brakes, not in the handling, etc
(and it is 2 early to tell if the frame problem is really gone for good)
However, what you said about DEALERS, overall reliability are spot on.
Also the TORQUE, oh baby. And get tires ANYWHERE almost ANY DAY.

Ditto--ARE YOU LISTENING BMW??
fair enough. good points.

i've owned a good number of GLs over the years and they've all been great bikes, and not one of 'em ever left me on the side of the road. but none of 'em could get close to the LT in terms of fun over twisty bits of canyon or mountain passes.
KBandit is offline  
post #24 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 5:58 pm
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by randy
The last thing to throw in the mix is the persistent rumors of a significant change to the current GL1800 for 2009 or 2010. This could have BMW reviewing the design of the next-gen LT as well. 2010 would mark the GoldWing's 35th anniversary.
the motorcycle press is saying that '07 will be a big year for the entire honda line. they have been very quiet lately. should be interesting.
KBandit is offline  
post #25 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 6:09 pm
Senior Member
 
Tallyho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Roseville (Gateway to the Sierras), CA, USA
Posts: 2,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
Six degrees of seperation. And the mole at BMW is KEVIN BACON!
Word. No relation to Bob, I assume.

Bob Morrow #4204
2014 K1600GTLE "Firefly" GTL 4 Two
2002 K1200LTE "Green Hornet" LT 4 Two (history)
"Kyrie Eleison down the road that I must travel"
Tallyho is offline  
post #26 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 6:15 pm
Just ridin'
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Aurora, CO, USA
Posts: 5,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaffyK
I think they 'abandoned' us the day we gave them the IM award. Eventhough it was supposed to be fun, the 'damage' was done.
Actually the damage was minimal and was "undone" in subsequent conversations. While it was clearly bad form to publicly embarrass BMW N.A., they understood that it was not done with the approval or urging by the management of CCR or of this group.

While it would be great fun to consider that we have been "abandoned", the reality is that neither this community or by extension CCR nor any other organized BMW club has ever been truly embraced by BMW N.A. or BMW Motorrad USA. The corporate mentality at BMW (and to a large degree at most other vehicle manufacturers) is that they would rather not have to contend with groups such as ours that engage in the free flow of information about their products.

Last year at Jackson Lake BMW sponsored the entertainment for the Thursday night dinner/dance and provided the K1200S cutaways. This was the first time BMW has contributed financially to the annual reunion. Last year and this year BMW arranged for Mike Sheehan from Garmin to put on some GPS seminars. While we would always appreciate and always strive for greater BMW involvement in our community, it is clear that we are enjoying more rather than less support lately than we were in the beginning. I remain hopeful that we will enjoy more support in the future.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

Just ride it!
Meet Riley

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Randy is offline  
post #27 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 6:23 pm
Senior Member
 
dougholck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lodi, CA, USA
Posts: 2,423
Cool

LT lovers, start collecting used LT's now, they may actually have a decent resale value if discontinued, or you may just have a different bike for each day of the month. Either way, not a bad situation to be in.

Doug Holck
Lodi, Ca

I don't always ride motorcycles,
but when I do I prefer BMW's.
Ride safely my friends

3 Continents -10 Countries - 50 States

02 K1200LTe
04 1150GS Adventure
08 Suzuki DR650
CCR 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14
See you 2015 in Coeur d' Alene, Idaho

BMW MOA 109760
AMA Charter Life Member 518333
International Fellowship of Motorcycling Rotarians
HDDC POSSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dougholck is offline  
post #28 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 7:02 pm
Senior Member
 
Tallyho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Roseville (Gateway to the Sierras), CA, USA
Posts: 2,083
In the end, I can wait an extra year for something spectacular rather than have them push for a certain deadline. They took their own measure of embarrassment lumps with the original K1200S rollout. I already feel the eyes rolling but I still believe the new LT will come and with a larger powerplant not based on the new K12 engine thus more potential engineering issues. Experience has taught BMW it needs to be right, the first time. We'll have to wait a little while longer but that gives us all more time to save our Euros. It's pretty clear from this site that a number of "original" LT riders were ready for something new and traded in their LTs for the GT but the cycle may reverse when they see the new yet familiar face. Sure, you can ride the GT two-up but why would you want to? Just the same, many of us are happy with our current LTs along with our personal level of customization because our favorite riding accessory is our SO.

Got pillion?

Bob Morrow #4204
2014 K1600GTLE "Firefly" GTL 4 Two
2002 K1200LTE "Green Hornet" LT 4 Two (history)
"Kyrie Eleison down the road that I must travel"
Tallyho is offline  
post #29 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 7:13 pm
Senior Member
 
tmgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NE Georgia, GA., USA
Posts: 5,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
A very reliable source has told me the following information regarding the next-gen K1200LT:
  • The next-gen LT launch date has been moved back by 1 year. It will arrive at Intermot in the fall of 2008 and arrive in the spring of 2009
  • Because for the new K1200GT, sales of LTs and RTs have dropped off significantly, while the GT sales pipeline is so hot, it's off the scale
  • The backlog of K1200LTs in inventory and production, based on the slowing sales, has caused BMW to continue with the current-gen K1200LT through the 2008 model year.
  • BMW has been tracking trade-ins very closely with the new K1200GT. The majority of trade-ins for the new GT is from RT and LT riders, helping to drive this decision making at BMW
  • Based on what happens with K1200LT sales over the next 2 years, BMW may or may not decide to produce a next-gen K1200LT, leaving the K1200GT and R1200RT as the two choices for 2-up luxury touring
What does this mean?

it means I might have been correct when I said they may replace the LT completly with the GT

Quote:



To me, it means that if K1200LT sales do not pick up in the next year, there might not be a K1200LT past this current generation. It also means that demand is currently driving production and product development at BMW, which is a double-edged sword.
possibly could mena some damn good new technology comming out as well, if they push RnD in a closer market they may just have some GREAT new stuff!

Did ya know the '07 GS does not have the Power servo's on it? I tried one out today, a Black one All black it is pretty sweet! <grin>, but it does have some pump for the abs still.


not one but 6 make a garage look full.......

Tom

Tom

'07 GS Adv (mine), '06 GS <(My brides)
(the only bmw's in the stable)
tmgs is offline  
post #30 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 7:32 pm
Senior Member
 
tmgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NE Georgia, GA., USA
Posts: 5,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
As I told Greg on the other site, it's only 2009. It's not like it's never.

Hell, a simple letter writing campaign to BMW might actually stimulate their interest in moving it back to 2008.
maybe but they are german, and they know best. <g> the wife works for a german company they aren't easy to sway their opinions .

If the lt is now their slowest selling bike (If it is) that might have a big impact on where they aim their manufacturing program

Tom

'07 GS Adv (mine), '06 GS <(My brides)
(the only bmw's in the stable)
tmgs is offline  
post #31 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 7:37 pm
Senior Member
 
tmgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NE Georgia, GA., USA
Posts: 5,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
I'm buying everything that jeff has posted at face value.

I'm not, however, buying into the subsequent suggestions that BMW may be considering getting out of the L[and yach]T business.

Doesn't make any sense to me:

-- The current business plan is to maintain and expand into new market niches -- dropping the flagship touring bike would be inconsistent with this.

-- BMW already has a significant amount of coin invested, both in the now-significantly-along next-gen LT development, and in the new K12 drivetrain, which benefits from every source of sales volume to amortize development costs. BMW Motorrad doesn't have the sort of spare cash lying around to causally pitch out the window based on momentary shifts in sales mix.

-- There's a "pride" factor involved -- BMW set a whole new standard in the touring market in 1998, and I'd be surprised to see tham be willing to quietly walk from a top-end market that they have at various times been on (or at least sharing) the top of -- just a gut-feel, but I don't see them "conceding" market supremacy to Honda or HD if there's at least a break-even business plan for a new LT.

That's enough reasons for now. My guess (which is as good as what yer payin' for it ): I still see a new LT in '09, introduced at the preceding Intermot.

well you are pretty up on this type of stuff, so your probably correct.

However German companies do some strange things for some reason that make no sense monetarily.

Who knows for sure? bet they don't even know fir sure yet! <g>

they are going to have to kick some serious but though to make a lt better than the GT. IMHO if they make a decent setup for bags and tour pack change the seating position ever so slightly they may just have the LT outdone with the GT, it (the gt) does have more passenger room as it is now

Tom

Tom

'07 GS Adv (mine), '06 GS <(My brides)
(the only bmw's in the stable)
tmgs is offline  
post #32 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 7:38 pm
Senior Member
 
Beemerider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: GOODYEAR, AZ, USA
Posts: 1,285
Quote:
the motorcycle press is saying that '07 will be a big year for the entire honda line. they have been very quiet lately. should be interesting.
Was looking forward to that too but...didn't happen, really. Unless you would like a radically changed CBR600RR?

2007 Honda Bikes

Ride On!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Goodyear, AZ
"Yeah but its a warm heat!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'13 SILVA K1600GTL
Beemerider is offline  
post #33 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 8:10 pm
Super Moderator
 
DavidTaylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Posts: 7,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by randy
... Last year at Jackson Lake BMW sponsored the entertainment for the Thursday night dinner/dance and provided the K1200S cutaways. This was the first time BMW has contributed financially to the annual reunion. Last year and this year BMW arranged for Mike Sheehan from Garmin to put on some GPS seminars. While we would always appreciate and always strive for greater BMW involvement in our community, it is clear that we are enjoying more rather than less support lately than we were in the beginning. I remain hopeful that we will enjoy more support in the future.
Can we get the Demo truck to show up at Tan-Tar-a????

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
2010 R1200RT Polar Metallic
AMA, BMWMOA
Booze Brother #4

The shortest distance between two points is for people who don't ride!



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DavidTaylor is offline  
post #34 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 8:24 pm
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
Can we get the Demo truck to show up at Tan-Tar-a????
We'll be gentle...promise!
messenger13 is offline  
post #35 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 8:32 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shelton, CT, USA
Posts: 2,341
Well, I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night so this is just my opinion....

It is all about maximizing the investment in engineering and manufacturing costs. When they plan out the production runs they order parts and sign contracts for enough parts to fill the parts pipeline and make the manufacturing process profitable or as close to profitable as they can make it. Keeping that in mind, it would be my opinion that if they have not meet their contract commitments they will produce the the model until contracts are exhausted. That maximises their investment in production and engineering. This approach was used in the '04 model year.. Once they run out the old parts then they will introduce the next model year early...

Once they start the design process for a new platform all the fruits of that process.. all machines that share that 'next gen' technology share the development costs. The more machines a.k.a. bikes they can sell, the more the development costs are more evenly split. Profit shows quicker on the early arrivals.

If their customer base is so excited for something new that they run out and buy the new hardware and they can sell some or most of the same people the 'New LT' a season or two later then they actually had the opportunity to sell more product..

I don't care what year they come out with the 'new LT'. I will be able to pick up a really reasonable 'old LT' until the next big thing... allows the 'new LT' to be more attractive to a value conscious rider.. Besides first year production is always the subject of operational changes after the 'real world experiences of initial buyers' are known. I sat on a '99 LT and flat said I will not pay that much for the LT... But I did tell the guys that I was with that I will own one some day. In 2003 I felt it was time for me and I made my purchase.

Patience Grasshopper!

JM2CW

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
2001 Black LTC
2015 Blue R1200GSA
jackd is offline  
post #36 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 8:37 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Georgia, , USA
Posts: 1,136
Jury Still Out

One of my concerns is that the jury is still out on the new K type engine. As far as longevity and reliability, the "flying brick" is a proven champion. A tried and true friend to long distance riders. The new generation K engine may be a winner, but it's still too new to tell. If the new engine does develope a serious problem, and it's reputation tarnished, many riders will run back to the old LT design. This could change everything in BMW's plan to create a new LT with the new engine.

I'm an old BMW fan from way-back. I wish the new K type engine all the luck in the world. However, she still has yet to be proven in "combat."
wardenross is offline  
post #37 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 8:47 pm
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,905
Hhmmn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wardenross
One of my concerns is that the jury is still out on the new K type engine. As far as longevity and reliability, the "flying brick" is a proven champion. A tried and true friend to long distance riders.
I don't know if the IBA Rally folks with agree with you there. I think the Boxer powerplant is their "tried and true friend".
messenger13 is offline  
post #38 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 9:08 pm
Senior Member
 
Florian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Coast, OH , USA
Posts: 1,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardenross
One of my concerns is that the jury is still out on the new K type engine. As far as longevity and reliability, the "flying brick" is a proven champion. A tried and true friend to long distance riders. The new generation K engine may be a winner, but it's still too new to tell. If the new engine does develope a serious problem, and it's reputation tarnished, many riders will run back to the old LT design. This could change everything in BMW's plan to create a new LT with the new engine.

I'm an old BMW fan from way-back. I wish the new K type engine all the luck in the world. However, she still has yet to be proven in "combat."
According to the local dealer the new GT owners are in for a large wallet depletion for the 24K svc. as the valvetrain is different and requires more time to set it up correctly than the current LT engine. Just another reason to hold off for a year or two...

F
Florian is offline  
post #39 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 9:15 pm
Senior Member
 
RonKMiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 6,279
I tend to look at this from a marketing perspective.

Based on the demographics of this group we have plenty of money to burn on a new edition of the LT - and if BMW is willing to abandon dedicated, hard core "luxury" touring riders (and their wives) they have just been pissing in the wind since the late 90's. Honda is sure to have some new - and very sophisiticated stuff - in the pipeline. The current GL is as long in the tooth as our LT's will be in a few years. I would never discount other manufacturers as well. Flagship bikes always return the most profit. A VERY attractive market segment.

Demand for new GT's has been there for one reason and one reason only: "It's the new toy in town and I just gotta have one to show my buddies how cool it is." As awesome as it is, it is not a substitue for an LT "type of bike" and never will be.

I think Todd's comments on the "new Coke" were spot on.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Like Butt-ahh!"
RonKMiller is offline  
post #40 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 9:27 pm
Just ridin'
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Aurora, CO, USA
Posts: 5,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
The current GL is as long in the tooth as our LT's will be in a few years.
The current GL1800 was introduced in 2001 - it is two years younger than the current LT.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

Just ride it!
Meet Riley

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Randy is offline  
post #41 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 9:32 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Georgia, , USA
Posts: 1,136
Hmmmmmmmnn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I don't know if the IBA Rally folks with agree with you there. I think the Boxer powerplant is their "tried and true friend".
Joe,
When I say "long distance riders" I didn't necessarily mean "Iron Butt" riders. But since you brought it up...

2003 Rally

26% of the bikes that finished were Boxers
19% of the bikes that finished were Bricks


2005 Rally

41% of the bikes that finished were Boxers
10% of the bikes that finished were Bricks

We will have to wait until the 2007 Rally to see how the new K engine will compare to the Boxer and Brick.
wardenross is offline  
post #42 of 1019 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 9:37 pm
Just ridin'
 
Randy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Aurora, CO, USA
Posts: 5,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
According to the local dealer the new GT owners are in for a large wallet depletion for the 24K svc. as the valvetrain is different and requires more time to set it up correctly than the current LT engine. Just another reason to hold off for a year or two...

F
The K4x valve adjustment is slightly more difficult than the flying brick, but checking the valves is no more difficult. The GT1 will predict when a valve check will be needed, likely to be no earlier than the 24K service. The LT calls for a physical valve check at every multiple of 12,000 miles. While the 24K might cost more, the lower cost of the 600 mile service, double (or more) the valve check interval, service free rear drive, no transmission oil to change, increased service intervals for the braking system, easier access to the air filter, etc - it is likely most K4x owners will spend less on routine maintenance than LT owners.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

Just ride it!
Meet Riley

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Randy is offline  
post #43 of 1019 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 1:24 am
IBR# 366
 
meese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: West Linn, OR
Posts: 16,424
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
Gerhard, Please don't wait. Run right out and get the wing right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Ken is NOT proud of you...you big meany!
Saw that one coming a mile off, as I'm sure Gary did.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
meese is offline  
post #44 of 1019 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 1:26 am
IBR# 366
 
meese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: West Linn, OR
Posts: 16,424
Garage
My plan is to get a GT, put 100K or so on it over the next two years, then evaluate the new LT once it arrives. Then I'll make that choice after I have concrete data to work from, and real bikes to test ride.

Oh, and I'll take an F800GS as well, just to explore those fire roads and dirt trails with.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by meese; Sep 8th, 2006 at 1:40 am.
meese is offline  
post #45 of 1019 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 1:39 am
IBR# 366
 
meese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: West Linn, OR
Posts: 16,424
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Demand for new GT's has been there for one reason and one reason only: "It's the new toy in town and I just gotta have one to show my buddies how cool it is." As awesome as it is, it is not a substitue for an LT "type of bike" and never will be.
I disagree, Ron. Sure, there's that new toy mentality at work. But the GT is a great bike that does what it is designed for very well. It was never meant to be an LT replacement, but many of us have been calling for more power and less weight for years, while maintaining BMW's legendary comfort.

If the new LT isn't available for 2-3 more years, the GT can fit the bill quite nicely for many riders. Two-up comfort is important, and the LT's passenger seat has sold a lot of bikes, but personally I'm quite tempted by tons of horsepower, superior suspension, brakes, and handling, and 200 lbs less weight. The old RS/GT didn't fit my riding style (too heavy and not as comfortable), but the new GT is a lot closer to what I consider an ideal bike for my riding style. Obviously many others feel the same.

I also considered the changes in the '05 and up LTs, but just didn't see enough improvements to be worth upgrading unless my '02 died completely. I'm also tempted by a new GS, but again overall comfort is pretty important since I don't own a car.

Once the new LT actually exists then I'll reevaluate, but there are several years of great riding between now and then. We all gotta ride whatever works best for each of us, regardless of what others may think of our choices.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
meese is offline  
post #46 of 1019 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 3:58 am
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,905
Exclamation The GT = BMW's new Flagship?

I believe that BMW believes that they invented "Sport-Touring". And there's plenty of room for that argument. Let's face it, the BMW K1200LT is not a sport-tourer. It's a luxury tourer. And I don't know if the LT's (worldwide) sales numbers have been good enough over the last few years for BMW to keep pouring dollars into the "project". It just may have been an experiment that's shelf-life is nearing it's end. Hard to believe?...yes. But let's not lose focus of the fact that we Amerikans may not fully understand the mentality of a foreign company like BMW. Time will tell. But the GoldWing may have been King for too long, for too many good reasons. But the Connie, FJR1300, and the ST1300 have surely met their match . . . and then some.
messenger13 is offline  
post #47 of 1019 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 5:56 am
Senior Member
 
gdroege's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Kansas City (Parkville), MO, USA
Posts: 1,276
Unhappy

Sounds like the LT maybe headed down the same path as the Yamaha Venture Royale.

Gary & Mary Droege
1999 K1200LT
2008 K1200LT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Life ain't about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce."
gdroege is offline  
post #48 of 1019 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 6:49 am
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: , ,
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaffyK
I think they 'abandoned' us the day we gave them the IM award. Eventhough it was supposed to be fun, the 'damage' was done.
Please refresh the memory. What was th "IM award"?
nfn12034 is offline  
post #49 of 1019 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 6:58 am
Senior Member
 
grifscoots's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Outside New Braunfels , TX, USA
Posts: 13,451
Insensitive Moron.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

-=grif=-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Grok
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
grifscoots is offline  
post #50 of 1019 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 7:07 am
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: , ,
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Insensitive Moron.
OUCH!! Maybe it can be softened with :
“Indifferent Marketing"
nfn12034 is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The new K1600GT and K1600GTL ?win K1600GT/GTL 416 Nov 25th, 2010 4:42 pm
New offer from SF on 2005 LT Total (Merged thread) mconlogue K1200LT 16 Jun 3rd, 2009 6:13 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome