Front Brake - is this right? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 17 Old May 23rd, 2009, 12:28 pm Thread Starter
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Front Brake - is this right?

Hi all,

took the plunge and replaced my front brake pads today, figured it was a simple procedure, and it was once I got the corroded pins out, and the corroded screws out...groan!

One picture (sorry poor quality) is a view of the Pots inside my calliper, and the other a brake calliper from a Kwaker ZZR.

My pots don't have any thing in them if you get my drift, I've looked on the parts fiche and there doesn't appear to be anything missing, but on the ZZR brake, the pots have like a liner inside them I guess to distribute the pressure across the brake pad face.

Now I don't think there is anything wrong with mine, matches the parts Fiche, and don't see anything in the Climer manual to suggest other wise, but I'm sure some brain on here will tell us all why the Bemmer brake is like it is compared to the Kwaker brake.

Oh, took a while to clean all the dis-similar metal corrosion that had started to take hole, but the brakes are all nice and clean with new shoes. Just got to take care and bed them in proper like!
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Rgds
Mike

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post #2 of 17 Old May 23rd, 2009, 2:38 pm
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Thats the way mine look.

We have become great friends over the last 2 weeks

Anyway there is nothing inside the center and they don't need it. The pads have a pretty thick backing plate and they will stop you I promise

No written or verbal warranty implied

I am pretty compulsive on caliper/piston cleaning a good nylon brush and lots of brake cleaner go a long way.

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post #3 of 17 Old May 23rd, 2009, 3:08 pm
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

You are good to go Mike, just as lee said. Nothing missing here!

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post #4 of 17 Old May 23rd, 2009, 3:45 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
I am pretty compulsive on caliper/piston cleaning a good nylon brush and lots of brake cleaner go a long way.
I'm with you there, couldn't believe the crap in there. Squirt Squirt, Brush Brush, Rub Rub, Oh! looks like those pots are made of Stainless steel!

Would never have guessed it until I started cleaning. I'd like to take the whole brake system apart and overhaul it now I'm getting more confident with the Maint on this beast. Maybe a winter project.

Thanks for the reassuring input guys.

Rgds
Mike

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For those that don't, no explanation is possible."

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post #5 of 17 Old May 25th, 2009, 11:52 am
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Mike, Are you saying that the picture of the LT is at it came off? Were there no inserts there? There should be. I have them in all of the brakes, front and rear. It is interesting that none of microfiche shows the little pads. If you've got direct pressure from the exposed metal to the back of the brake pad, then you ARE missing something. JM2CW

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post #6 of 17 Old May 25th, 2009, 1:02 pm
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
Mike, Are you saying that the picture of the LT is at it came off? Were there no inserts there? There should be. I have them in all of the brakes, front and rear. It is interesting that none of microfiche shows the little pads. If you've got direct pressure from the exposed metal to the back of the brake pad, then you ARE missing something. JM2CW
After looking again I thought is was the pistons down below the rim in the second blurred photo, and still believe it to be so, BUT they should expand out as the first clear pic.

I hope I did not jump the gun on you, but as pointed out by Steve_R:

YOU NEED TO CHECK AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!! ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Use a block of wood instead of pads and make sure your pistons come OUT of the caliper pots, as in the clear picture. Or if you can get a visual of all pistons out of the pots just a bit.

PLEASE let us know ????????????????

Lee
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post #7 of 17 Old May 25th, 2009, 1:26 pm
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Whoa, slow down on the panic button. Go out and look at your calipers. The pistons are hollow on the BMW Calipers. There is only one part that moves and it is an inverted cup whose open end presses on the pad backing plate. Every one I have looked at is this way early and late and I have done quite a few flushes. Myk you are OK.

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post #8 of 17 Old May 25th, 2009, 1:36 pm
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Then you need to pull the calipers on my bike. I've got cups and I've got inserts that go in them. Had them on old Red Rover and have them on the Purple People Eater. I HAVE NO metal to metal contact. Looking at Myk's first picture it looks like his does. Mine don't have that bright edge to them.

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post #9 of 17 Old May 25th, 2009, 4:11 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
Then you need to pull the calipers on my bike. I've got cups and I've got inserts that go in them. Had them on old Red Rover and have them on the Purple People Eater. I HAVE NO metal to metal contact. Looking at Myk's first picture it looks like his does. Mine don't have that bright edge to them.
No inserts in mine, mine is the first picture, the 2nd is my friends ZZR, his brakes have inserts in.

He was shocked I didn't have inserts, but nothing in the Clymer, nothing on the parts Fiche, and folks here seem to think this is right. Maybe we need to have a poll on who has and who doesn't have inserts in, and then try and establish why that might be the case.

I'm not going to do anything, I've ridden 20,000 miles with them like that, so if it's wrong I would have been dead from brake failure going through a 180 in the Alps long ago!...

Rgds
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post #10 of 17 Old May 25th, 2009, 6:39 pm
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Cool, thought with the question brought up, better safe then sorry.

Anyway fist clear pic is good, and I stand by that, final answer...............


Quote:
Originally Posted by myk_edwards
No inserts in mine, mine is the first picture, the 2nd is my friends ZZR, his brakes have inserts in.

He was shocked I didn't have inserts, but nothing in the Clymer, nothing on the parts Fiche, and folks here seem to think this is right. Maybe we need to have a poll on who has and who doesn't have inserts in, and then try and establish why that might be the case.

I'm not going to do anything, I've ridden 20,000 miles with them like that, so if it's wrong I would have been dead from brake failure going through a 180 in the Alps long ago!...

Lee
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post #11 of 17 Old May 25th, 2009, 9:31 pm
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

I stand corrected! The early Brembo units have an insert and it can be seen in the BMW manual if you look close enough (I didn't see it the first time I looked). The later Integral brakes did not have these inserts. I just did not remember seeing them. Do they really make a difference? Not unless they are flush with the edge of the cup.

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post #12 of 17 Old May 26th, 2009, 6:00 am
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

The actually they stick out past the edge of the cup and provide more contact area to the back of the brake pad.

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post #13 of 17 Old May 26th, 2009, 12:24 pm
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Question Re: Front Brake - is this right?

If you are missing the "hockey pucks" inserts and order some make sure that you install them in brake pistons correctly? My rear brake developed an ungodly howl so I ordered a set of EBC HH pads to replace the factory pads. During the pad replacement process I discovered that the caliper pucks on the outside were in installed by someone backwards??? Backwards the pucks do not seat and cannot apply even, consistent, pressure hence the persistent squeal. I am surprised it took so long to start making so much noise???

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post #14 of 17 Old May 26th, 2009, 2:45 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveL
If you are missing the "hockey pucks" inserts and order some make sure that you install them in brake pistons correctly?
Steve
Very odd, I've looked at the realoem parts fiche for 6 or 7 different years in both US and Europe models, and none i've looked at show the "Hockey Puck" (nice description Steve)

So, do we have a part number and year/model? I'm not gonna install any in mine unless the local BMW dealer tells me otherwise, at which point I'm going back to the dealer I bought the bike from and ask why they didn't install when they serviced the brakes in 2003.

Rgds
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post #15 of 17 Old May 26th, 2009, 4:38 pm
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Interesting thread, but no one is addressing the elephant in the room. The only time I've seen that much corrosion was when a buddy of mine stored the chlorine for his pool in the same garage as his scooter. Just curious about the oxidation on the calipers and pistons. Sea air might be that corrosive as well.
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post #16 of 17 Old May 26th, 2009, 4:47 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hognot
Interesting thread, but no one is addressing the elephant in the room. The only time I've seen that much corrosion was when a buddy of mine stored the chlorine for his pool in the same garage as his scooter. Just curious about the oxidation on the calipers and pistons. Sea air might be that corrosive as well.
The photos look worse than the calipers really were. Once I'd sprayed a little cleaner on there, the pistons were sparkling. And yes thing to tend to fur up around here, but then I do ride my bike even in the winter complete with salted roads. Try to clean often, but like to ride rather than clean. if they had been bad, I woul dhave expected them to be difficult to push back in, but after a good scrub with a tooth brush they had a good shine to them and they slid right back in.

Next time I have a few minutes, maybe I'll pull the calipers again and take a picture with a real camera and not the crappy out of focus one in my phone.

Rgds
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post #17 of 17 Old May 27th, 2009, 9:03 am
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Re: Front Brake - is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by myk_edwards
Very odd, I've looked at the realoem parts fiche for 6 or 7 different years in both US and Europe models, and none i've looked at show the "Hockey Puck" (nice description Steve)

So, do we have a part number and year/model? I'm not gonna install any in mine unless the local BMW dealer tells me otherwise, at which point I'm going back to the dealer I bought the bike from and ask why they didn't install when they serviced the brakes in 2003.
I have looked everywhere in my in my Clymer manual and at the "Bob's BMW" web site on their parts diagram and I do not see the"hockey pucks" shown or listed anywhere. I took note of them in my rear caliper when replacing the pads. I have had no reason to do any maintenance on my front brakes as of yet so I have no idea if the "pucks" are present in the front calipers.

I have seen similar "pucks" on other bikes, not so unusual...perhaps they are considered part of the pistons so the part is not listed separately??? Not sure? My LT is a 2001 year model.

The other option....perhaps the pucks are a recall modification to "help" the horrendously outdated rear brakes obtain a modicum of acceptability.

It is all a moot point because your dealer is going to solve this mystery for you.... hopefully?

Steve
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