Improved LT Clutch Plate? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 23 Old Apr 16th, 2009, 5:16 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cumming, Ga, USA
Posts: 62
Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Frequently in this forum I read about clutch slippage problems leading to clutch replacement. I was surfing around today and found this site. I called and spoke with their tech rep and he said that his company is developing a clutch plate that is superior to the LT stock clutch plate. What else would he say?

Anyway, in the page linked to above they give a pretty good summation of why the LT stock plate has the problems we have all heard about if not yet experienced first hand. I was wondering what opinions others have on replacing the stock friction plate with a redesigned plate.

Currently I am not experiencing any problems with my clutch. However, I do have a spare FD assembly (just in case) and I'm thinking about pre-ordering one of these friction plates in the belief the I will eventually need one. I don't relish the thought of installing another inferior stock plate.

Any advice from others that have had clutch problems or especially those engineer types who have specific knowledge of clutch design would be appreciated. Also, please pass along any information you may have about other friction plates that are superior to the stock plates that I should consider.

Regards,

Frank Carroll
Cumming, Georgia

2003 K1200LT
2003 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic
jarhead354 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old Apr 16th, 2009, 5:53 pm
Senior Member
 
LTExfisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Clemente, calif, usa
Posts: 178
Garage
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

The site looks good, Have you looked at Barnett Clutch's? Anyone comment on either?
My Slave's leaking and I'd like to have everything ready when it goes!

Murphy's law & no Excuses!
and no1 can argue!
LTExfisher is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 7:08 am
LAF
Lifetime Supporter
 
LAF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Harrisburg , PA, USA
Posts: 2,979
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

I am thinking The 360 for $325.00 is a steal.

Now I wish I knew of someone who had firsthand experience with them in any application.

Lee
17.5 R1200 GSW Black Low
15 R1200 RTLC San Marino Blue Metallic (Sold)
10 Liquid Silver FJR1300 (Sold)
O7 Biarritz Blue Metallic LT (Totaled 2010)
ATGATT I am breathing proof.
BMW MOA #135959
LAF is offline  
 
post #4 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 8:07 am Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cumming, Ga, USA
Posts: 62
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
I am thinking The 360 for $325.00 is a steal.

Now I wish I knew of someone who had firsthand experience with them in any application.

I hear you. However, the guy I talked to (said he was the tech rep) said that the Turbo six paw is the one you would want. A little more expensive but I don't know how that compares to the stock plate.

I'm like you; I would love to hear from those on this forum that have more knowledge of clutches than I do.

Frank Carroll
Cumming, Georgia

2003 K1200LT
2003 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic
jarhead354 is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 8:22 am
Senior Member
 
CharlieVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Deep South of Vermont
Posts: 4,389
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

I don't think there is anything wrong with the stock clutch.
It has problems when something leaks oil on it but otherwise it works fine.
Some folks like to beef up the drivetrain so they can push the bike really hard, so in that case go ahead and beef up the clutch....have fun.
But as a preemptive measure to prevent future problems, there is nothing in the history of the KLT clutch to suggest that preemptive changes to the clutch itself will save future troubles.
It may be that drilling a weep hole in the clutch slave will save a clutch, no real data on that but we certainly know that leaking clutch slaves have taken out clutches. Drilling a weep hole makes sense to me as a preemptive measure; changing clutch components doesn't.
And when a clutch slips due to oil contamination, the clutch plate needs to be replaced but generally the pressure place and housing cover do not need to be replaced unless severely scored due to extended use after slipping is first detected. Full BMW price for the clutch plate is about $170.
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...p?mospid=47964

Last edited by CharlieVT; Apr 17th, 2009 at 8:31 am.
CharlieVT is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 8:23 am
Senior Member
 
donsobeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Elk Grove Village, Il, USA
Posts: 393
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

When will they deal with our problem of oil on the disc?

DON
donsobeck is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 9:07 am
Senior Member
 
BecketMa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 3,522
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Right after they build a FD that out last the ones on HDs.

Rumor is that on the new LT they chrome it since they couldn't fix it. :-)

Best from Tucson
Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
BecketMa is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 9:11 am
Senior Member
 
VRodPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Orefield, PA, USA
Posts: 276
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BecketMa
Right after they build a FD that out last the ones on HDs.
<GRIN> Since the HD "final drive" is a belt that can usually last at least 100K miles, They have their work cut out for them. **AND** when it fails, it's a couple of hundred to repair.

Live Slow... Fly Fast

Check out our
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
blog that chronicled our trip to Alaska and back.


<- The Boy
The Toys

2001 K1200LT-C that's been to the Alaskan Arctic Circle and back
2008 VRSCAWA H-D V-Rod with a few goodies
2005 VRSCA H-D V-Rod
1981 Mooney M20J

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
VRodPete is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 10:43 am
LAF
Lifetime Supporter
 
LAF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Harrisburg , PA, USA
Posts: 2,979
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Curtis I hear you but I have also seen many write ups on clutches that have gone, and in very few miles and the dealer denied it as warranty.

Now I know I was not there as they rode their bikes but most have all said no speed racer stuff, and the housing was just filed with shredded clutch.

I also agree the slave hole drilling is one of the best counter measures to avoid a leak from taking out the clutch.

Still would be interested in an after market if I ever need one. I would think just on cost alone it would save you money.

Lee
17.5 R1200 GSW Black Low
15 R1200 RTLC San Marino Blue Metallic (Sold)
10 Liquid Silver FJR1300 (Sold)
O7 Biarritz Blue Metallic LT (Totaled 2010)
ATGATT I am breathing proof.
BMW MOA #135959
LAF is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 10:54 am
Senior Member
 
CharlieVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Deep South of Vermont
Posts: 4,389
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
...... I hear you but I have also seen many write ups on clutches that have gone, and in very few miles and the dealer denied it as warranty.....
Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember a couple such reports. (CRS syndrome?) I came away thinking that there must have been an alignment or assembly problem. I didn't think of it as cases of inferior clutch plate, but maybe it was. Who knows?
Regards,
CharlieVT is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 11:03 am Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cumming, Ga, USA
Posts: 62
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
...I have also seen many write ups on clutches that have gone, and in very few miles and the dealer denied it as warranty.

...I also agree the slave hole drilling is one of the best counter measures to avoid a leak from taking out the clutch.

...Still would be interested in an after market if I ever need one. I would think just on cost alone it would save you money.
Lee,
I agree with what you are saying. I also agree that a slave hole is the way to go. I doubt any dry clutch friction plate will survive a good douse of oil.

I also thought I remembered reading about possible design flaws with the LT stock clutch. I'm not sure what the exact problem was and I'm not sure it deals specifically with the friction plate.

Frank Carroll
Cumming, Georgia

2003 K1200LT
2003 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic
jarhead354 is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 2:09 pm
Member
 
leiboshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Close to Helsinki, , Finland
Posts: 87
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Original cluch works well, if used normally and no oil leakage happens.

Stronger clutch would be advantage, but not necessary. Bigger problem for cluch is first gears long gear ratio. With racing clutch starting to drive will be even worse than with std cluch.

Stronger clutch plate would be needed 100 % sure, if you would install a turbo charger into LT. Otherwise most likely cluch will slip. With strong cluch it would not slip but then there would be a danger that final drive won't last long. It is weak enough with original parts and original power already.

Regards
Leiboshi
leiboshi is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 2:29 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cumming, Ga, USA
Posts: 62
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leiboshi
Original cluch works well, if used normally and no oil leakage happens.

Stronger clutch would be advantage, but not necessary. Bigger problem for cluch is first gears long gear ratio. With racing clutch starting to drive will be even worse than with std cluch.

Stronger clutch plate would be needed 100 % sure, if you would install a turbo charger into LT. Otherwise most likely cluch will slip. With strong cluch it would not slip but then there would be a danger that final drive won't last long. It is weak enough with original parts and original power already.

Regards
Leiboshi
Thanks Leiboshi,
That makes sense to me. It's better to have the clutch slip than to have to replace a transmission.

Thanks for the information,

Frank Carroll
Cumming, Georgia

2003 K1200LT
2003 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic

Last edited by Steve_R; Apr 19th, 2009 at 3:16 pm.
jarhead354 is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 4:21 pm
Senior Member
 
dshealey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dandridge (Near Knoxville), TN, USA
Posts: 12,165
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

No "better" clutch plate will help when the slave cylinder leaks (without the drain hole), or a tranny or engine oil seal fail. Then you will just be replacing a far more expensive plate which did not gain you much if anything in the first place.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
dshealey is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 4:53 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cumming, Ga, USA
Posts: 62
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

As I said in response to Lee in a few posts back:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead354
Lee,
I agree with what you are saying. I also agree that a slave hole is the way to go. I doubt any dry clutch friction plate will survive a good douse of oil.

I also thought I remembered reading about possible design flaws with the LT stock clutch. I'm not sure what the exact problem was and I'm not sure it deals specifically with the friction plate.
__________________
I am in total agrement that oil or fluid contamination will cause friction plate failure.

Maybe I'm just smoking something but I thought I read somewhere in this forum a while back that there were design flaws with the LT clutch.

If that's not the case then we'll just let sleeping threads die.

Frank Carroll
Cumming, Georgia

2003 K1200LT
2003 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic
jarhead354 is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 5:47 pm
Senior Member
 
JPSpen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jones, OK, USA
Posts: 3,525
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

The only real advantage to this particular clutch is the use of spring dampening to lessen/eliminate the wear and tear on the input shaft to the trans.

I would buy this clutch disk for this feature alone.

I have two bikes that probably need to have spline lubes. And the stock clutch disk damages the splines in the transmission input shaft because there are no springs to dampen the shock of engagement/disengagement.
When the time comes that I do tear one apart for a spline lube, I just might consider changing the clutch disk ..

What they need to do is build one in ceramic so that oil won't bother it.
Maybe their Paw clutch disks would fall into that catagory ?


John

Live and direct from the new earthquake capitol of the U.S. Jones, Oklahoma
08 Can-Am Spyder (Miss Lindy's)
03 R1200CLC Capri Blue "Flipper"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01 R1100RT Glacier Blue "Lucky"
91 R100GS "It'sNotAMoneyPit"
The voices in my head may not be real, But they have some good ideas!


"I like the wind in my face and Boobies on my back. No, Wait, I got that backwards"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JPSpen is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 5:53 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Downey, CA, USA
Posts: 1,330
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead354
As I said in response to Lee in a few posts back:


I am in total agrement that oil or fluid contamination will cause friction plate failure.

Maybe I'm just smoking something but I thought I read somewhere in this forum a while back that there were design flaws with the LT clutch.

If that's not the case then we'll just let sleeping threads die.
There has been periodic mention of the LT clutch being less than perfect. However, most of the reported failures involved contamination from leaky seals. Those who ride aggressively (okay, so that's most of us) or extra heavy loads like sidecars could see some benefit from an improved clutch but with reasonable riding you can get good wear (I'm at 100k on the original). If I have to replace it I may consider an upgrade as long as I'm at it.
mjordans2000 is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 6:59 pm
IBR# 366
 
meese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: West Linn, OR
Posts: 16,427
Garage
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead354
I called and spoke with their tech rep and he said that his company is developing a clutch plate that is superior to the LT stock clutch plate.
Caution, RBR has been saying that their LT clutch is "in development" for a whole lotta years now (at least 5 years, probably more).

I know one guy who had them add a turbo to the K12RS and he was happy with it. I know several other folks that have been very unhappy with their parts, service, and overall experience.

Besides, why buy a new clutch plate (even if it wasn't vaporware) just to have it sit in a box in the garage?

The LT's clutch is adequate for "normal" riding, but isn't quite as over-engineered as most of BMW's parts (especially on an 850-lb bike). So most riders won't see a clutch problem unless they get a leak from the slave cylinder, rear main seal, or front tranny seal (all too common, unfortunately).

As others have said, drilling a weep hole near the slave cylinder and bottom of the clutch housing is a good idea. Other than that, Just Ride It and don't worry so much.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
meese is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 8:36 pm
Senior Member
 
dshealey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dandridge (Near Knoxville), TN, USA
Posts: 12,165
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
-----------------------------------So most riders won't see a clutch problem unless they get a leak from the slave cylinder, rear main seal, or front tranny seal (all too common, unfortunately).-------------------------------------------------------
That should be front OR REAR tranny input shaft seal. Either will take out the clutch, just like the slave cylinder will. If the front one fails, almost immediate clutch failure, if the rear fails it will take just a little longer, as the oil has to travel up the actuator shaft hole just like brake fluid from the slave.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
dshealey is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old Apr 18th, 2009, 3:11 am
Member
 
leiboshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Close to Helsinki, , Finland
Posts: 87
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Caution, RBR has been saying that their LT clutch is "in development" for a whole lotta years now (at least 5 years, probably more).

I know one guy who had them add a turbo to the K12RS and he was happy with it. I know several other folks that have been very unhappy with their parts, service, and overall experience.

Besides, why buy a new clutch plate (even if it wasn't vaporware) just to have it sit in a box in the garage?

The LT's clutch is adequate for "normal" riding, but isn't quite as over-engineered as most of BMW's parts (especially on an 850-lb bike). So most riders won't see a clutch problem unless they get a leak from the slave cylinder, rear main seal, or front tranny seal (all too common, unfortunately).

As others have said, drilling a weep hole near the slave cylinder and bottom of the clutch housing is a good idea. Other than that, Just Ride It and don't worry so much.
Sure it is working better in RS, which has less weight and shorter gear ratio in 1st gear (my quess). To change cluch plate into better one would not harm anyone. But do you get any advantage of it? Original one is always smoothest to use, I think.

And I agree. It is not over-engineered. More likely it has been ok for lighter models, but LT is such a monster, that cluch is already on limit to be under-engineered part in it. But still work well in it.

Regards
Leiboshi
leiboshi is offline  
post #21 of 23 Old Apr 18th, 2009, 12:27 pm
Senior Member
 
pozo_izquierdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hyvinkää, , Finland
Posts: 1,583
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese

The LT's clutch is adequate for "normal" riding, but isn't quite as over-engineered as most of BMW's parts (especially on an 850-lb bike). So most riders won't see a clutch problem unless they get a leak from the slave cylinder, rear main seal, or front tranny seal (all too common, unfortunately).
+1

LT clutch works fine as long as you can keep the dry clutch dry. If it turns into oil clutch then it is totally irrelevant whether the unit is the "High End Turbo Boosted Super Special Edition" or stock BMW clutch. Both are dead at that point so I would love to see someone come up with dry clutch that can tolerate both oil and brake fluid...

Regards

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

Hyvinkää, Finland
2004 ('05) LT, Dark Graphite, "Sunset Cruiser II"

Bike trip from Finland to USA:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Pictures of various farkle projects:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pozo_izquierdo is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old Apr 18th, 2009, 12:44 pm
Senior Member
 
mkiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Medina, OH, USA
Posts: 302
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
The only real advantage to this particular clutch is the use of spring dampening to lessen/eliminate the wear and tear on the input shaft to the trans.

I would buy this clutch disk for this feature alone.

I have two bikes that probably need to have spline lubes. And the stock clutch disk damages the splines in the transmission input shaft because there are no springs to dampen the shock of engagement/disengagement.
When the time comes that I do tear one apart for a spline lube, I just might consider changing the clutch disk ..

What they need to do is build one in ceramic so that oil won't bother it.
Maybe their Paw clutch disks would fall into that catagory ?




John
Isn't the drive shaft already designed to dampen the drive train shocks?

Mike Kiesel

Medina, Ohio
2000 K1200LT (Katerina)
"She's big and graceful - most of the time"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mkiesel is offline  
post #23 of 23 Old Apr 18th, 2009, 7:07 pm
Senior Member
 
dshealey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dandridge (Near Knoxville), TN, USA
Posts: 12,165
Re: Improved LT Clutch Plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkiesel
Isn't the drive shaft already designed to dampen the drive train shocks?
There are two shock absorbing things on the LT. The drive shaft is two tubes joined by rubber between them, and there is a spring/ramp shock absorber on the output shaft of the engine, right in front of the clutch. When the clutch drive plate is installed, the specified torque then 60 degree further tightening of the nut sets the pre-load on that unit.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
dshealey is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Take off, 'eh? Starting the LT from stop... petevandyke K1200LT 26 May 30th, 2012 9:48 am
Slipping Clutch - Clutch Slave Cylinder lhendrick K1200LT 24 Mar 29th, 2009 7:02 pm
Unreliable clutch advice please cyclecamper K1200LT 11 Dec 1st, 2008 10:23 pm
latest clutch analysis cyclecamper K1200LT 17 Feb 27th, 2007 9:00 pm
Sintered clutch plate bikesnumbnuts K1200LT 4 Nov 14th, 2006 2:32 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome