When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start?? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 21 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 10:36 pm Thread Starter
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When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Hello all,
I rode into work just the other day, the sun was shining, birds where chirping and life was great.
After my shift I hopped on my LT and turned on the ignition, as you all know (what I’m assuming) is the fuel pump motor runs for about a second or two and stops then “normally” I start my motor. Well this time I turned on my ignition and hear the fuel pump motor run, and run, and run, and run……keeps running hit the start button and nothing…….fuel pump motor still running. So the sound I’m hearing “I’m assuming” is the fuel pump motor or also sounds like……well, when you’re sitting there with the ignition on (motor not running) and you press the front break and the hydraulic assist turns on…that what it also sounds like. So now that we know how it sounds what is the issue??
I really like working on my own motor and like to learn new things, so if I can get some suggestions or help from you LT experts I would surely appreciate it.
Sound is coming from the area of……well see pic.

Things I've done:
-unplugged and plugged in battery to reset computer (no resolve)
-shifted gears...neutral, 1st, 2nd, neutral (no resolve)
-messed with the ignition switch (no resolve)
-messed with the brakes..pressed a few times (no resolve)
-has got new battery so low voltage may not be problem.

Thanks in advance.
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Eddie,
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post #2 of 21 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 10:59 pm
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Do you think that sound your hearing could be the starter turning? Turning by itself without contact w/the flywheel. When does the sound begin? When does it end? Is it happening while you PRESS the START button?

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post #3 of 21 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 11:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Does not sound like the starter, sounds exactly like the (regular, as usual) sound right after the ignition is turned on. You know the one you normally hear for about a second or two then stops. This sound starts about a second after I turn on the ignition with out me touching anything else. The sound is consistant and does not stop. I go to press the start button and nothing......sound continues. Sounds to me like a small hydrolic pump sound.

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post #4 of 21 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 11:34 pm
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Could it be possible that a pressurized fuel hose has disconnected in the tank and, since the pressure is now low, the fuel pump is allowed to continue to run?


Ron


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post #5 of 21 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 11:46 pm Thread Starter
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Good one kellenbenz,
Guess in order to check that I'm going to have to tear into my LT and take a look inside the fuel tank?

Eddie,
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post #6 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 12:08 am
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Are you saying that as well as the fuel pump running constantly that the starter motor is NOT operating? Or is the starter turning over the engine and it is not catching?

It has been a while since I have worked on one of these and I can't recall if the fuel system has to be pressurized before the starter is allowed to engage. If that is the case it would seem to indicate that you lost a hose connection in the tank as has been mentioned.

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post #7 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 2:34 am
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

By the photo you posted it should be the starter running constantly. So you probably have a bad starter relay. Remove the cap from your fuel tank & listen directly inside the tank. The fuel pump is in the tank on the lower right side. While the started motor is located just above the transmission on the lower left side where you have your dot.
Normally if the starter relay it stuck, the starter will continue to run even with the key off. Either way the fuel tank will probably need to be removed as the relays are under the tank on the right side & the fuel pump & filter hoses access are in the tank on the bottom right side.

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post #8 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 7:29 am
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Re: fuel pump keeps running = Disconnected hose

I would agree, one of the hose lines blew off of the fuel pump or filter inside the fuel tank. Under normal conditions the pump will continue to run until the system is pressurized

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post #9 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 8:47 am Thread Starter
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Jim,
The sound which I'm assumng is the fuel pump running is consistant and does not stop, this is only when I turn on the igition....when I go to hit the starter button its dead. I get nothing out of it.

Hp1bmw,
Thanks for the tips, I'll listen inside the fuel tank see if I hear anything. But you maybe right, could be a starter relay. Funny thing is that the sound only starts and stops when I turn the ignition on and off. So as long as the ignition is on sounds couninues. Turn key off sound stops.

I'll have to double check on the loose hose theory inside the tank.

Eddie,
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post #10 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 8:47 am
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Quote:
Originally Posted by hp1bmw
By the photo you posted it should be the starter running constantly. So you probably have a bad starter relay. -----------------------------.
If it was the starter relay, the engine would be turning over, not just the starter motor running. Unless the of course the sprag clutch has failed.

I don't think anywhere in the thread he has said that the engine is turning over, only the hum of a motor running, which is most likely the fuel pump. However, he still should be able to get the engine to turn over with the starter, unless the battery voltage is low and the voltage circuit in the starter relay is keeping it from activating.

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post #11 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 9:43 am
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Is your photo indicating where the noise is coming from?


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post #12 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 9:47 am
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Oops. Just read your post more carefully. Lift your seat and turn the key on while looking under the seat. I think you'll find your noise source is the ABS unit. The fuel pump is inside the tank and I think on the right side of the cycle.


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post #13 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 9:49 am
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Before you get too excited give it a jump start. Just because the battery is new doesn't mean it hasn't failed or you may have left the park lights on by accident and not known it as it's easy to do.


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post #14 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 10:36 am
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Since the starter motor is not running the very basic things I would check for are the kill button (next to the starter button), and the Reverse knob (verify it is in the "F" position).

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post #15 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 4:11 pm
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

From looking at your picture that is the area of one of the electric solenoids that control the ABS unit. It is attached to the front of the unit. Mine went out with the same symptoms except I could start the motor. To get mine to stop before I replaced the solenoid, I just took the handle of a hammer or a ratchet and gave a light to medium tap on top of the ABS unit. To replace that solenoid you have to have at least $110.00. Take out the battery, battery box, loosen the ABS unit. Try not to remove any lines just remove the clamps on the lines as you will have to work from the left side and turn the unit counter clockwise enough to get to the unit. It has a sliding front door that BMW says you need to replace after removing it. I just used the same one and used silicone to fasten/hold the door in place as I could not get it to slide back into the little tracks.

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post #16 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 4:18 pm Thread Starter
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Okay, thanks again for the input.

ziggy_gg
The kill switch was one of the 1st things I checked, flipped it back and forth and back to center again. No resolve.

deanwoolsey
Thats a good one, I'll try jump starting it. Can't hurt, then I could check that off my list.

robasay
Thanks for the advise I'll try tapping the ABS unit, hopefully that will help.

Thanks again, I'll report back as I try all of these good idea.

Eddie,
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post #17 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 6:16 pm
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey

I don't think anywhere in the thread he has said that the engine is turning over, only the hum of a motor running, which is most likely the fuel pump. However, he still should be able to get the engine to turn over with the starter, unless the battery voltage is low and the voltage circuit in the starter relay is keeping it from activating.
Thanks for weighing in on this David. I couldn't remember if there was a fuel pressure sensor in the starter relay circuit or not.

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post #18 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 6:36 pm
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Have you opened the gas cap to see if you can hear an abnormal sound of gas splashing around inside the tank ?.
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post #19 of 21 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 7:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

No but I will, my LT is tuck at work and as soon as I get back there I'll try all that. At least its being stored inside for now.

Eddie,
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post #20 of 21 Old Feb 18th, 2009, 10:52 am Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

All,
Thanks you very much for all the ideas and thoughts on what my problem could be.

The "Jackpot" goes to deanwoolsey, turns out it was the battery voltage being too low. The battery is fairly new and guess the LT's are sensative when the battery maintainer is not plugged into it for a day or so....at least mine is.

Thanks again

P.S.
Come to think of it, I wonder if there is something wrong with my electrical wiring....because it discharges the battery so fast? It's at the dealer at the moment and maybe they failed to check that?

Eddie,
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Last edited by su_jumptd; Feb 18th, 2009 at 11:15 am.
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post #21 of 21 Old Feb 18th, 2009, 8:37 pm
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Re: When I turn ignition on fuel pump keeps running, can't start??

Eddie,


You may have a miss- matched radio and controller as this WILL drain the battery unless you always turn off the radio before cutting the key off. Here is the article on how to check the software versions.
Attached Files
File Type: doc Check Radio Ver.doc (21.5 KB, 187 views)

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