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post #1 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 1:50 pm Thread Starter
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Rider Down

Never thought I would make one of these posts.

Saturday night I was coming back from a ride to Fairfield, TX. We ( three of us, me in the middle ) were coming into Allen from Plano on 75 Central Expressway. I felt my bike tire wobbling and thought I had a flat. It probably took me at most 5-10 seconds to get over to the shoulder. That's the last thing I remember until I woke up in an ambulance.

My buddy riding behind me said once I got to the should the rear of my K1200 dropped and my back tire ( yes, the entire frigging tire/rim ) popped out and started rolling away. When that happened he said I fishtailed hard 90 degrees ( with sparks flying ) and it threw me.

I have to say that of all the things I learned from this site ATGATT was one that I have adopted. I was wearing almost brand new First Gear touring jacket, gloves, jeans, riding boots and 3/4 HJC helmet. My son ( 9 y/o ) usually rides with me but he was in a car a few miles ahead.

I landed face first and my face got the brunt of the damage. He said my left arm was up behind my back and I was moaning. I don't remember any of this but said I was combative and refused to even believe I owned a motorcycle much less was in an accident. I'm sure this was related to head injury.

Anyway, carted off to the hospital and thank God no broken bones not even any stitches. Bad concussion that took me almost two days to get over. Now just a little road rash here and there and seriously sore joints.

The big question is how could my entire tire have come off. I talked to FT.Worth BMW and they said if lugnuts were loose that factory says it will only stay in place 50-100 miles. I had my tire replaced about 1500 miles ago. Rode to Fairfield ( about 130-150 miles one way ) Friday and returned Saturday.

Any ideas?

Syd
Dallas, Texas
'05 K1200LT Graphite ( Big E's former ride )
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post #2 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 1:58 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Well with out seeing the bike it is very hard to guess the cause. But I am very thankful you were not hurt to bad and are here to tell the story. I'm also thankful your son was not with you. The bike can be fixed/replaced but we can't.

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post #3 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 2:04 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Wow, glad your injuries appear to be minor.
As far as the rear wheel I wonder if perhaps some lugs came loose and the remaining ones broke off under too much stress.
I hope you heal well and fast and get back in the saddle soon!

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post #4 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 2:04 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Syd,

I'm glad that you are OK and thanks for the post. My next move, before I ride today, is to check the lug nuts on my bike. They get torqued pretty tight, but it doesn't hurt to check again. Can't imagine them working loose!

As far as ATGATT, be careful with regular jeans. They will only last a few seconds on the pavement. Leather or riding pants will give you more protection. Full face helmet too..

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post #5 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 2:07 pm
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Re: Rider Down

WOW. Thank God you're alive and didn't really get hurt. I am not a fan of the 3/4 helmets at all for the reason you mention, recently switching to a flip up for ease of use. It's a scary thought to smash your face like that, wow. (again)
It sounds like the lugnuts had to have been loose, they are torqued at 105 NM (77.5 ft.lbs) but they are usually done in a sequence. a lighter torque (initial tighten) is around 50NM (37 ft. lbs) to seat the wheel and then the final tightening to properly torque it. (no locktight either) I wonder if the final tightening was forgotten? It will be very tough to figure out what could have led to this happening. I haven't heard of anyone loosing the entire wheel assembly like in your case, what a scary scenario.

I hope you make a speedy recovery.

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post #6 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 2:07 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Have you looked at it to tell if the lugs actually came loose or something else happened like bolt shear, etc? Many question my sanity but this is why I always use medium grade Loctite on my lugs.


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post #7 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 2:41 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Glad you are OK. Just curious what brake rotor you were running? As other folks have asked, have you been able to look at the bike? Did the bolts back out or shear off?

Dan
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post #8 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 2:47 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Wow! Thank God you are able to tell us about it. I guess I'll check my wheel also.

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post #9 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 2:57 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Congrats on surviving a get off. Sounds like a high side one , never easy those. You make my case for full face helmets. I don't even like flip ups they can come open easy enough and yes I am a believer in leather and armor or ballistic otherwise if too hot for leather. The drag jeans I wear on occasion are only for short trips far as I'm concerned.

That said I'm sure all of us are more than a little anxious to hear more about the wheel leaving the bike. That is unusual I think and inquiring minds really want to know if the bolts sheard off , I know I do .

I can't imagine all four bolts could back out on their own in shuch a short time. As far as the tires what kind of tire were you running

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post #10 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 3:04 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandiver
Syd,

I'm glad that you are OK and thanks for the post. My next move, before I ride today, is to check the lug nuts on my bike. They get torqued pretty tight, but it doesn't hurt to check again. Can't imagine them working loose!

As far as ATGATT, be careful with regular jeans. They will only last a few seconds on the pavement. Leather or riding pants will give you more protection. Full face helmet too..
Roger on the ATGATT............FirstGear makes some pretty good armored pants too..................Usually I'll pull out my tool roll every few days and put the lug wrench together and just check the bolts on the back.............I carry a couple of spares and the shouldered spacers as well but have not needed them for quite some time................

One of the earliest experiences I had with my '03 was just leaving town and it feeling a little ...........well,...........just not right..................I stopped and checked air in front and back thought .........'ok......it's probably nothing'........got back on and immediately decided to pull back over.....................

Rear lugs were all totally way loose..............er go...........thats when I started my checking the lugs program..................

Sometimes it's the little things that get overlooked that can really cause a major PI*$$ later.....................Oh yeah.............I had the pillion on that day..........Darwin 0.........Christians 1........................

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post #11 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 4:26 pm
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Question Re: Rider Down

I too would be VERY interested in the post incident analysis???

thanks,

radar

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post #12 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 5:20 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Had a RT rider from the SportTouring board that had his rear wheel come off at about 60mph on the freeway. Had Motoport stuff on and it held up well but the "rag doll" effect did a number on him. He had a new tire put on just a couple of days prior to this. After that I now check my lugs on a regular bassis. Glad your ok and get well fast!

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post #13 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 5:34 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Zowie glad you are back with us!
Same thing happend to my bro-inlaw while he was riding his GT!
We never did figure out what happened. The threads were stripped and we could not find the lug nuts. He managed to get over to the side and almost stopped. ???

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post #14 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 5:40 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibbones
Wow! Thank God you are able to tell us about it. I guess I'll check my wheels.
Me too ASAP! and ATGATT! Glad you are able to tell us about it.
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post #15 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 7:00 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Glad you are ok. It was bad enough but could have been much worse. I am going to check my rear wheel more often from now on.
Before the crash did you not notice any noise or vibration when leaning?
Was the bike inspected? If the lugs broke it should be obvious looking at the wrecked bike. Nobody mentioned a possible FD failure but that is among the possible causes in my opinion. Again a inspection of the rear wheel should give some clue.
Again I am happy you got out of this with minimal damage.
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post #16 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 7:42 pm
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Re: Rider Down

So glad you were not more seriously hurt.

I'm going out now to check the bolts; thanks!

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post #17 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 7:44 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Syd, glad that you made it out okay man. Scaaarreeee. Glad your son was not along for the ride either.

My first thought would be the lugs were not put on tight enough, but I guess could be other things. My thoughts on the wheel coming off and miles driven before a wheel flies off is determined directly by how tight (loose) they are to begin with.

Best wishes to you on a speedy healing.

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post #18 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 8:36 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Wow that is wicked scary. Glad your able to tell us what happened. I don't trust my self let alone any mechanics to put my wheels on with out checking the torque after a short ride.

I carry two torque wrenches with me at all times that cover most of the torque specs. for the LT. If you went from everything was riding ok one minute & basically a complete failure the next. I'm not even sure how to put that into words how much that bothers me.

ATGATT you bet. I just bought a pair of Kevlar lined jeans which I will wear fire resistent undergarments with to help prevent friction burn so I won't embarrass my HD friends as much when I ride with them. I will still where all the other gear though.

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post #19 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 10:49 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Wow, I am glad you are OK. Sounds like a harrowing get-off.

I can tell you after reading your story I went right out to the garage and checked the lugs on my rear wheel. No loose nuts. I do all of my own work but just wanted to make sure.

Get well soon and rejoin us on the road when you can.

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post #20 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 10:58 pm
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Thumbs down Re: Rider Down

Glad to hear you are OK. No get off is good, but some can be much worse.
Just a thought about loosing the rear wheel. 105 Nm is the required final torque, 50 the initial seating. Either the 5 bolts were not tightened correctly, ie too loose, or perhaps they were over torqued, resulting in stripped threads, or damaged bolts, which eventually let go. Horrible either way. Perhaps Dave or others could chime in with the specks on these bolts. Like the OEM oil filter cover bolts that sheer just above the required torque 10 Nm. Hence the replacements.

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post #21 of 36 Old Feb 9th, 2009, 11:43 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rider Down

I am glad that something good came from this. If someone checks their lugs and they are loose then it wasn't in vain. I'm waiting on GEICO adjuster to look at it then it's going to Ft Worth BMW for repair. If it's not total loss. Two of the bolts were sheared off. Not sure what that means but I had about 1500 mi's on it from the last tire change.

I'll update this post when I find something out.

Syd
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post #22 of 36 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 8:06 am
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Re: Rider Down

good thing you didn't have seatbelts...

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post #23 of 36 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 9:39 am
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Re: Rider Down

Glad you lived to tell the tale.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sydvicioustx
Two of the bolts were sheared off. Not sure what that means but I had about 1500 mi's on it from the last tire change.

I'll update this post when I find something out.

To me, that means the other three were not doing their job...either missing or loose. I'd hate to think someone messed with the bike while you weren't looking, but crazier things have happened. Please let us know what you find out.

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post #24 of 36 Old Feb 10th, 2009, 10:45 am
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Re: Rider Down

I would speculate that two bolts sheared off indicates the other three came out. On a five bolt pattern having three bolts installed keeps the force of the wheel centered on the hub and the cycle would feel normal. However only having two bolts in proximity would leverage the wheel as it rotates and cause them to shear. Were the two that sheared right next to each other? If so and the threads are intact on the others then you simply had lugs that came loose. If you see galling or stripped threads on the others then they were over-torqued causing the failure and the last two simply sheared off because they could not support the total load by themselves. The answer may be with the dealers torque wrench if it hasn't been calibrated recently.


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post #25 of 36 Old Feb 11th, 2009, 10:40 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rider Down

Kinda bummed today. Just got off the phone with GEICO adjuster and he said 90% sure it's gonna be a total. Any ideas? Man....I miss that bike already!

Syd
Dallas, Texas
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post #26 of 36 Old Feb 11th, 2009, 11:14 am
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Re: Rider Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by sydvicioustx
Kinda bummed today. Just got off the phone with GEICO adjuster and he said 90% sure it's gonna be a total. Any ideas? Man....I miss that bike already!
First of all, how are ya doing? Second, sorry about the get off. Sounds pretty freaky. I second a full face or at least flip front. However, after my recent MSF update, I may go to full face. Reason: the flip front do not provide total protection in the temple area. As for what to do, go out and find another bike and ride. Take it easy at first but you will gain confidence back quickly. I know that my little get off in Sept set me back slightly but it just takes some miles. good luck and take care.

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post #27 of 36 Old Feb 11th, 2009, 11:28 am
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Re: Rider Down

Wow!
Lug check today for sure. Glad you're ok, hope your confidence will be ok too. Get back in the saddle, on any bike, and practice a bit, you'll get your legs back...

I have both a 3/4 and full face. Makes me think on that too.

Good luck!

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post #28 of 36 Old Feb 11th, 2009, 12:52 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by sydvicioustx
Kinda bummed today. Just got off the phone with GEICO adjuster and he said 90% sure it's gonna be a total. Any ideas? Man....I miss that bike already!
Thank you for sharing this with the gang here. Has the wheel been analyzed yet? It may help us learn what was the root cause. Perhaps you need to formally notify whoever installed that tire about this event?

The crash data tell us 35% of head injuries are the face. Consider adding a full face to your kit.

I am delighted you are still with us!

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More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #29 of 36 Old Feb 11th, 2009, 5:56 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rider Down

The insurance company doesn't seem too interested. They ( GEICO ) treated me very well. Paid me more for it than I bought it for a year ago. I was thinking about another LT but leaning towards a GW. Several buddies have one and now that it's unsure that LT is going to be produced think I'll make the switch.

I put a bunch of accessories on Classifieds since I won't need them anymore.

Syd
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post #30 of 36 Old Feb 11th, 2009, 7:55 pm
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Re: Rider Down

hi syd...glad you survived the incident...had to make you pucker....try to ride the gw for some distance before you sign the papers...i've owned them and it's just not the same...the lt has it's issues, but it's not boring...a gw is boring and it get worse on a hot day...if you've become accustomed to the qualities of a thoroughbred, you won't be satisfied with a draft horse...

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post #31 of 36 Old Feb 11th, 2009, 8:36 pm
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Re: Rider Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lzyellodog
First of all, how are ya doing? Second, sorry about the get off. Sounds pretty freaky. I second a full face or at least flip front. However, after my recent MSF update, I may go to full face. Reason: the flip front do not provide total protection in the temple area.
Syd, glad you survived as well as you did. As for full face vs flip up, the flip does not offer the structural integrity of a full but is SO much better than a 3/4 or, heaven forbid, a half shell. And jeans are not great but better than shorts and flip flops (check out the MC scene around the college campuses some summer if you want to see stupidity in motion!)

Sorry you are considering the move to GW, my LT is up for sale as we speak due to the economy...

Just old, clutchless and clueless
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post #32 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2009, 6:05 am
 
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Re: Rider Down

Thanks for sharing and letting us know you are ok. I had a wheel come off a cage as the _______ at the tyre shop "forgot" to tighten the bolts (they were done my hand only), and I practically had to change my pants and have the seat cleaned afterwards. The thought of having something like that on a bike.. YIKES!

Now do yourself a favor and get a decent helmet. I can personally vouch for the BMW system IV flip-up's effectiveness. Have a V now and I personally don't plan to put it to the test but I guess it should be as good as the previous installment.

I hope you find a new ride soon, whatever model.
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post #33 of 36 Old Feb 12th, 2009, 7:53 am
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Re: Rider Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by sydvicioustx
The insurance company doesn't seem too interested. They ( GEICO ) treated me very well. Paid me more for it than I bought it for a year ago. .
Syd,
don't you think that's a red flag...proceed slowly. Closed head injuries are serious and irreversible...don't be brave.

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post #34 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 7:11 am
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Location: Wichita Falls, Tx, USA
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Re: Rider Down

Glad you're OK. That could have been nasty. I had just the opposite problem. I had a tire put on at a Honda dealer and when I tried to change the wheel myself, I was barely able to break them loose. Now I pull the wheel and take it to them to mount the tire. That way I know it's torqued when replaced. ...

2006 R1200RT
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue
2003 K1200LTE Black
Totaled Oct 2, 2010
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 2000
Most of us would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism.
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post #35 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 4:50 pm
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Re: Rider Down

I keep thinking of 2 words from the MSF safety course.... T-CLOC.

I never think to check the wheels but will do it before the next ride.

Thanks for sharing. Hope your scrapes and scratches heal quickly.

Keep riding,
~Stephanie


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~Stephanie
'03 LTE Anthracite, "Zelda"
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post #36 of 36 Old Feb 14th, 2009, 8:36 am
 
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Re: Rider Down

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