Stuck Starter, I Think!! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 2:28 pm Thread Starter
 
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Question Stuck Starter, I Think!!

To any and all...greetings. I have a 2002 1200LT. It was warm the other day (for a change) so I decided to take a ride. Even though the battery charger said charged, when I started the bike the starter engaged but there was not enough 'juice' to start the bike. However, the starter continued to engage even after I removed the key, used the 'kill switch', etc. The starter did not stop until I disconnected the negative cable from the 'dead' battery. This morning I installed a new battery. As soon as I connected the negative cable, the started engaged again, although now when I use the ignition switch, the bike starts. However, once again the starter continues to engage even after I remove the key, use the 'kill switch', etc. The starter stops ONLY after I remove the negative cable from the battery. Any suggestions before I try to find a way to deliver this 'big beast' to the nearest dealership which is about 60 miles away?? THANKS in advance!!
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 2:33 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

Your starter relay has welded itself. Do a search on starter relay and tons of info will appear. Mine never welded so I can't help you with the perticulars. Good luck. Just look at the threads listed below this thread

Brian Ley
WA State of mindless sheep
USA where everything is illegal
2007 K1200GT
2010 650GS
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 2:34 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

Try hitting the starter button with the battery cables on ...it may unstick the solenoid.

Nelson
99 K1200LT
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 3:57 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

There is a sequence for unsticking the relay.
Going from memory, I think this is it:
With neg. cable disconnected charge battery to full.
(Assuming you haven't seriously run down you new battery it should take a charge alright.)
After battery is fully charged, with key on, hold starter button down, and then reconnect the neg. battery.
After the bike starts, release the starter button.

I think that's it. Someone else may post with corrections.

If that doesn't work, you need to replace the starter relay. There is an upgraded starter relay to prevent this in the future.
HTH
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 4:11 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

So do the "new" style relays stick? BMW changed the relay during mid 2001.

Mike Trevelino
Williamsburg, VA
2008 RT
2000 LT - Totaled at 99,960 miles


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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 4:55 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrevelino
So do the "new" style relays stick? BMW changed the relay during mid 2001.
The new style relays will not stick becuase they have a voltage sense circuit that will not allow them to close if the battery voltage is too low. The reason they stick is that the starter draws the same power, and if the the voltage is low the current draw will be higher since I * E = P.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 5:18 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

I assumed from the symptoms that he had the early starter relay.
You think that since he has an 02 that it is the upgraded relay?

What do you think? An 02 with an early relay?
or
the protected relay that has stuck?

In any case, if the unstick routine doesn't work, I think he's looking at changing out the relay.
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 8:08 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

It is possible his build did not get the updated relay. The schematics show three variants for 2001-2005 "without starter module", "with retro fitted starter module" and "with standard starter module".

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 8:12 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

Did you have the battery charger on while you were trying to start your bike ? If you did the starter relay might have thought your battery was in better shape then it really was .

Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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Old Feb 8th, 2009, 8:30 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

Hello bmwrider1952

Once a relay contact has stuck/welded it is not to be trusted AGAIN ! The starter motor is too far in labor cost that is . The starter relay is just a few minutes past the air filter .I would just make a day of it , remove and replace the air filter ,fuel filter and starter relay in one shot . When my relay stuck I removed it and noticed that some one had opened it up and unstuck it once before so I replaced it with a F250 starter relay $8 and a 2 mile drive or drive 220 miles to the BMW dealer and maybe ?$ for a up graded one .

Bob G
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Old Feb 10th, 2009, 12:11 pm
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Smile Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

I'll bet that Ford relay is rated for much higher amperage too and as such would be much less inclined to weld itself shut. That's what I've used on various boat outboards with relay issues and I've never had a problem afterwards.


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Old Feb 10th, 2009, 4:37 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

I don't suppose you have a drawing of some sort you could share with us? ... and maybe a few more details about the relay you did use... say a part number?

... or is this something so intuative that anyone would be able to figure it out?

I'm all for supportng the manufacturer, but $200 (estimated cost of the retro-fit kit with shipping) for a $20 part is a little over the top.

Bill B.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gbob
Hello bmwrider1952

Once a relay contact has stuck/welded it is not to be trusted AGAIN ! The starter motor is too far in labor cost that is . The starter relay is just a few minutes past the air filter .I would just make a day of it , remove and replace the air filter ,fuel filter and starter relay in one shot . When my relay stuck I removed it and noticed that some one had opened it up and unstuck it once before so I replaced it with a F250 starter relay $8 and a 2 mile drive or drive 220 miles to the BMW dealer and maybe ?$ for a up graded one .

Bob G


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Old Feb 10th, 2009, 7:54 pm
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Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

Hello Bill

It was the starter relay that would be for a 87 F250 W/460 , I cut the mounting bracket down to nothing and also cut the wire mounting studs to the minimum length and also transplanted the "flyback/zener diode" that is on the OE relay it is wired in parallel with the relay coil , care full of polarity . Had to carve the old relay mount tabs out of the relay box to make room and then wrapped the whole thing with electrical tape .
Been working for 2 years and 20K miles with no problems .
I think the under voltage relay retrofit is a weak answer for what was a too small a relay . It is rated for 90A and that is very generous even with a duty cycle of about 5 seconds,here in the states it would be 15 or 20A . Electrical equipment from Europe is too light duty when compared to NEMA rated gear I think.Take a look at the wire size to the starter it is the smallest I can remember ever seeing on any thing much less a 98Hp ,high price motorcycle.

Bob G
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Old Feb 11th, 2009, 2:46 pm Thread Starter
 
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Thumbs up Re: Stuck Starter, I Think!!

Thanks to everyone for your response. After installing the new battery, I connected the negative battery cable, turned on the ignition and engaged the starter button two-three times. It worked!! The bike now starts correctly. I have not had an opportunity to take the bike for a test ride, but plan to do so close to the house in the near future. I plan to have the relay replaced (I am sure it can no longer be completely trusted) during the next service. Once again, THANKS to everyone.
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