Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 21 Old Jan 25th, 2009, 1:30 pm Thread Starter
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Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Here is one for the group that has me and my service tech stumped:

First, before anyone refers the FAQ and the HOW I did that first and the following IS NOT what I have:

Found in the FAQ:
Quote:
" My radio display reads "NO RADIO" after it gets wet. What's up with that?This is a very common problem that can occur when water gets into the connectors under the display. Many times it will clear up on by itself but the best remedy is to remove the stingray and put dielectric grease on all the connectors. Another common cause is hairline cracks in the rubber boots on the radio controls which allow water to penetrate into the display (called the Remote in BMW-speak because it remotely controls the actual radio). Check these boots frequently.

NOTE: This problem may also result in the display showing "PHONE" instead of "NO RADIO" and/or the radio playing with the ignition OFF!"



IIRC I think this problem may of happened years ago and I did take the precautions and put the dielectric grease on the connectors and all has been well since.

My current (pun intended) problem is:
  • I get a "NO Radio" display when I touch the controller to turn on the radio.
  • I do not get any radio reception however I can play a CD in the stingray CD changer (yes, second radio in 6.5 years with the first radio being a cassette).
  • I can not change tracks or adjust the volume with the handlebar or passenger controls playing the CD.
  • All connections have been checked, re-greased, and re-connected.
  • A second controller, my old radio and another used radio plus combo-wire loom have been tried and still the display reads "No Radio".
  • BC3 Comm system works perfectly
My question is:

Has anyone had this problem? If so, what was the fix. Can anyone tell me if there is a loop through the handlebar controls that if there is there is an "open circuit" might cause this problem? The handlebar controls are the only part that has not been tested.

My tech is going to open a "COBRA" inquiry through BMW technical support to see if engineering has any knowledge of this issue. In the meantime I'm worried about the main wiring harness and some possible issues that age and time may have had an effect. My only frustration is not having a wiring schematic and diagnostic tree to help us diagnose this thing.

BTW: I had the "NO RADIO" pop up once last summer on a weekend ride before leaving for CCR. The circumstance was a twisty mountain road (one of the best ones here in Oregon too ;-) and I hit a dip from a sinking grade. The total suspension bottomed out and the radio quit. I was thinking the radio loom came unplugged, however the radio came back a few miles later and never gave me trouble since. To be preemptive before CCR I did my Level 2 service and took great care to inspect all under-tupperware wire connections, clean and use dielectric grease, before putting her back together.

TIA for any help offered and if the moderators want to move this to another forum be my guest. I wanted to reach the widest audience with my question. Thanks for the bandwidth.

Ernie A
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post #2 of 21 Old Jan 25th, 2009, 2:17 pm
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Hi Ernie!

Sounds common problem. I've had exact same problem (exept BC3 while I do not have it). You've got water into radiocircuit through rubber pushbuttons. Radio is gone. No wiring schematics is needed. Just replace radio by another, working one. I had same problem, opened stingray, put radio into pieces and found damaged PCB in radio. Clear traces of water. Changed radio and everything works fine now.

You told that you have tried with two other radios already, old one and another used one. Why you have that old one? Was the other one damaged as well? I am asking only, because nobody keeps BMW radios at home just in case that origial one would stop working. Only in case, it was damaged and replaced by another one. Were these radios already damaged radios you tried?

Regards
Leiboshi
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post #3 of 21 Old Jan 25th, 2009, 5:02 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by leiboshi
Hi Ernie!

You told that you have tried with two other radios already, old one and another used one. Why you have that old one? Was the other one damaged as well? I am asking only, because nobody keeps BMW radios at home just in case that origial one would stop working. Only in case, it was damaged and replaced by another one. Were these radios already damaged radios you tried?

Regards
Leiboshi
Thanks for the reply. My old radio was working but had poor reception and was replaced with the new CD version. The tech still had it in his used parts inventory because it was replaced under extended warranty and BMW was not entitled to the part.

A friend of the NWet riders, Alaskafish (John) has a 2000 LT that he is parting out and we tried the radio, controller and wire loom from that machine without any change in the symptoms.

Under close inspection of the controller(s) none of the buttons have cracks and appear to have let in any water, however we have not removed the back of the controller(s) to see if they are damaged. The odds are slim that both controllers are damaged. IMHO. Thanks again for the reply.

Ernie A
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post #4 of 21 Old Jan 25th, 2009, 5:14 pm
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

The problem is that you're just not riding the bike enough. So she's being stubborn.

I have a spare handlebar radio control button assy and a paper wiring diagram that I'd be glad to send up if it'll help. Wish I could also come up and troubleshoot with ya'll, but no plans for another trip north just yet.

Ken
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post #5 of 21 Old Jan 25th, 2009, 5:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
The problem is that you're just not riding the bike enough. So she's being stubborn.

I have a spare handlebar radio control button assy and a paper wiring diagram that I'd be glad to send up if it'll help. Wish I could also come up and troubleshoot with ya'll, but no plans for another trip north just yet.
On the first note: You are so right! It was a terrible drought being off the dear bike for 4 months let alone having her mostly apart for the PHIDS (BTW they are truly awesome!).

The handlebar control would be greatly appreciated as well as the wiring diagram. Let me know what I owe ya. Wait a minute! You are not coming up for this?!? It sounds like Ms. Sarah Dale is slippin'!

Ernie A
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post #6 of 21 Old Jan 25th, 2009, 10:39 pm
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieA
Thanks for the reply. My old radio was working but had poor reception and was replaced with the new CD version. The tech still had it in his used parts inventory because it was replaced under extended warranty and BMW was not entitled to the part.

A friend of the NWet riders, Alaskafish (John) has a 2000 LT that he is parting out and we tried the radio, controller and wire loom from that machine without any change in the symptoms.

Under close inspection of the controller(s) none of the buttons have cracks and appear to have let in any water, however we have not removed the back of the controller(s) to see if they are damaged. The odds are slim that both controllers are damaged. IMHO. Thanks again for the reply.
Rigth, odds are slim that both are damaged. But all these syptoms are so similar to my defected radio that still I believe that most propably it is radio. But what I believe doesn't help you.

In my push buttons I cannot see any cracks or anything where leaks can be. But water has gone through (7000 miles in the bike!).

Regards
Leiboshi
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post #7 of 21 Old Jan 26th, 2009, 10:14 am
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Hey Ernie, I believe the BMW Tech called it a "Puma" call not "Cobra", but I could certainly be wrong since I have never heard of either one!

On the handlebar controls: Doh! We do have one of those also available for troubleshooting, I just did not think enough the other day, sorry. It takes a Californian to come up with the idea!

We will need to physically remove the box from the handlebars still and they are out at Art's house. Maybe this afternoon if BMW has not come up with anything by then.

Of course if Ken has one sitting loose that he wanted to bring up as an excuse for a ride, far be it from us to prevent that!

Let us know later today if you think you need the switch box and or harness.

John

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post #8 of 21 Old Jan 26th, 2009, 11:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFish
Hey Ernie, I believe the BMW Tech called it a "Puma" call not "Cobra", but I could certainly be wrong since I have never heard of either one!

On the handlebar controls: Doh! We do have one of those also available for troubleshooting, I just did not think enough the other day, sorry. It takes a Californian to come up with the idea!

We will need to physically remove the box from the handlebars still and they are out at Art's house. Maybe this afternoon if BMW has not come up with anything by then.

Of course if Ken has one sitting loose that he wanted to bring up as an excuse for a ride, far be it from us to prevent that!

Let us know later today if you think you need the switch box and or harness.

John
LOL! A cat or a snake, I'm gettin' bit either way!

I would appreciate the switch very much. The dealer is closed today, but I'm going to call him tomorrow to ask him to look at the switch and check it for its condition. If I can have a switch to compare it to, and try, that would make my day. I'm thinking that it has to be a wire loom problem, however since we tried the "short" loom and each componet I'm thinking the main harness only would provide power, and it does at least that. I'm thinking that there is a loop through the switch that is keeping the audio system from working. But it is still a guess.

Ernie A
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post #9 of 21 Old Jan 27th, 2009, 12:39 am
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Isn't it terrible having too many friends.

The radio gets constant power to retain the memory settings, and also switched power so you can turn it on when they key is Off (but not Locked). One of these may be your problem. But you did say the single CD player works OK. Hmm.

Come to think of it, BMW tends to switch things by grounding certain wires. So its possible the "phone" wire or "intercom" wire is shorted to ground somewhere, or the "radio" wire isn't when it should be. I'll pull the wiring diagram and take a look before I mail it off.

It seems to me the dealer should have access to a wiring diagram, although you may not want to pay shop rates for him to look at it and scratch his head.

Ken
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post #10 of 21 Old Jan 27th, 2009, 1:18 am
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Wink Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

And since the soonest I will get to the switch assembly up here is tomorrow evening, I guess it is a race between Ken's shipping his up and us taking ours off. Let us know if you want to try this one if we get it off in time for you Ernie. I need to find all the little screws that are holding that assembly to the bars!

John

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post #11 of 21 Old Jan 27th, 2009, 3:22 am Thread Starter
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Isn't it terrible having too many friends.

The radio gets constant power to retain the memory settings, and also switched power so you can turn it on when they key is Off (but not Locked). One of these may be your problem. But you did say the single CD player works OK. Hmm.

Come to think of it, BMW tends to switch things by grounding certain wires. So its possible the "phone" wire or "intercom" wire is shorted to ground somewhere, or the "radio" wire isn't when it should be. I'll pull the wiring diagram and take a look before I mail it off.

It seems to me the dealer should have access to a wiring diagram, although you may not want to pay shop rates for him to look at it and scratch his head.
Yes the CD player is working, but it will not adjust volume or change tracks (selector?).

I'm thinking the switch is the answer since power is getting to both the controller and the radio. Please look at your wiring diagram and let me know what you think.

I'm sure happy to have you guys to kick this around with. Darn good friends I'd say.

Ernie A
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post #12 of 21 Old Jan 27th, 2009, 3:26 am Thread Starter
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFish
And since the soonest I will get to the switch assembly up here is tomorrow evening, I guess it is a race between Ken's shipping his up and us taking ours off. Let us know if you want to try this one if we get it off in time for you Ernie. I need to find all the little screws that are holding that assembly to the bars!

John
Thanks John. Since you are closer I'd like to save Ken the trouble of sending a package. I could meet you over in your neck-o-the-woods. Let me know what you want to do. I'm going to call Chris tomorrow and see what he has dreamed up on his days off.

Hey Art! How much for your '03 again?

Ernie A
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post #13 of 21 Old Jan 27th, 2009, 4:54 pm
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

I think that buying an 03 would be a much better solution. Cut out all that troubleshooting you know. I'm only thinking of you, ya know?

I'm asking $9,500. It only has about 100,000 miles less than your bike

Art Kester
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post #14 of 21 Old Jan 27th, 2009, 11:51 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Quote:
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I think that buying an 03 would be a much better solution. Cut out all that troubleshooting you know. I'm only thinking of you, ya know?

I'm asking $9,500. It only has about 100,000 miles less than your bike
Ya, but it's the wrong color... I'm holding out for the 2010 V6 BeemerBaggo with the custom slide-out saddlebags, traction control (on the front tire) that uses a radial car tire on the rear... in green

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post #15 of 21 Old Feb 1st, 2009, 2:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE (Update: Fixed!)

Well now... The display of "NO RADIO" sent me and my tech Chris at BMWWO Tigard down some rabbit trails of diagnostics. The problem stemmed from a faulty circuit in the IceLink Ipod converter.

The usual suspects (ie, radio, controller, pin sockets) checked out and the tedious check of each circuit with an ohm meter yielded no love. An engineer reading the "PUMA" posts, that BMW uses to diagnose difficult problems, suggested we disconnect the only accessory to the audio system (CD Changer). The original CD Changer was eliminated 3 to 4 years ago with an IceLink Ipod converter. Unplugged the IceLink and the proper voltage appeared at the controller (we were looking for a shorted wire in the main loom, but glad we did not look too far). Once disconnected the radio and in-dash CD player worked perfectly.

I want to thank John (AlaskaFish) and Art (Artk50) for helping me with some parts off their Part-Out 2000LT. Art didn't do much more than give me a hard time for not buying his Silver '03LT, but he still gets the nod for being part owner of the local parts bike. So, this is my plug for their project and if you need some good audio parts I know they will gladly part with them for you.

Thanks again for your interest and replies. This Forum is a great resource for information regarding all BMW motorcycles, and even a Honda or two.

Regards,

Ernie A
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post #16 of 21 Old Feb 1st, 2009, 3:31 pm
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Talking Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

You're welcome buddy! And glad you found the gremlin that was giving you the problem. I did mention your idea about us making Art's Bike another Parts Bike, but he did not sound too enthused!!

Tks for the plug as well!

John

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post #17 of 21 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 10:01 am
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Question Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

OK, Fair warning, I am a newbie, so please take pity on me. I parked my bike in the garage and have not had it out in 4 months. In the meantime, the battery died (since then I have put a battery tender on it). My problem is, now the radio won't work. Most times, the backlight will come on, but has no text. Once it did come on and say "No Radio". I have read about the buttons going bad and water getting down in there, but it has been in the garage the whole time. I found a card in it that has a security number for the radio, but the manual says that it doesn't need one. Also, and I believe unrelated, the low beam doesn't work. The high beam is just fine, but nothing from the low beam. Thanks so much for any help you might be able to throw my way!!!

2003 BMW K1200 LT
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post #18 of 21 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 8:57 pm
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCFan
OK, Fair warning, I am a newbie, so please take pity on me. I parked my bike in the garage and have not had it out in 4 months. In the meantime, the battery died (since then I have put a battery tender on it). My problem is, now the radio won't work. Most times, the backlight will come on, but has no text. Once it did come on and say "No Radio". I have read about the buttons going bad and water getting down in there, but it has been in the garage the whole time. I found a card in it that has a security number for the radio, but the manual says that it doesn't need one. Also, and I believe unrelated, the low beam doesn't work. The high beam is just fine, but nothing from the low beam. Thanks so much for any help you might be able to throw my way!!!

2003 BMW K1200 LT
Hi Keith!

I thought you might stop by today. A couple of things.

#1. To get answers on these questions, it would probably be best to begin a NEW thread so others would see it better and be more likely to respond.

#2. I thought you had installed a new battery, but i read that you only put it on a Battery Tender. Typically, they are enough to "maintain" a battery, but sometimes will not give ample charge to one that has been drained entirely. I would begin by using a Trickle Charger and fully charging the battery. You just about gotta do that on an LT first, cause having the battery fully charged is a necessity BEFORE trying to diagnose almost any electrical problems.

#3. I doubt the low-beam going out is associated with the battery problem. I have a new low beam bulb for your bike that I will give you when you stop by. We waited a while today, but must have missed you. See ya bro! Hope this helps.

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
Too many others to list...


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post #19 of 21 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 9:00 pm
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by leiboshi
Hi Ernie!

Sounds common problem. I've had exact same problem (exept BC3 while I do not have it). You've got water into radiocircuit through rubber pushbuttons. Radio is gone. No wiring schematics is needed. Just replace radio by another, working one. I had same problem, opened stingray, put radio into pieces and found damaged PCB in radio. Clear traces of water. Changed radio and everything works fine now.

You told that you have tried with two other radios already, old one and another used one. Why you have that old one? Was the other one damaged as well? I am asking only, because nobody keeps BMW radios at home just in case that origial one would stop working. Only in case, it was damaged and replaced by another one. Were these radios already damaged radios you tried?

Regards
Leiboshi

I don't know about that!!!! Somebody is probably carrying one around on long trips...right beside the spare final drive!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
Too many others to list...


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post #20 of 21 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 9:29 pm
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCFan
OK, Fair warning, I am a newbie, so please take pity on me. I parked my bike in the garage and have not had it out in 4 months. In the meantime, the battery died (since then I have put a battery tender on it). My problem is, now the radio won't work. Most times, the backlight will come on, but has no text. Once it did come on and say "No Radio". I have read about the buttons going bad and water getting down in there, but it has been in the garage the whole time. I found a card in it that has a security number for the radio, but the manual says that it doesn't need one. Also, and I believe unrelated, the low beam doesn't work. The high beam is just fine, but nothing from the low beam. Thanks so much for any help you might be able to throw my way!!!

2003 BMW K1200 LT
I had a similar problem that was related to the battery. Once you get the battery charged, you might try disconnecting the negative lead of the battery for about a half hour. This should reset your radio. You will need to perform a TPS reset after reconnecting the battery. Turn on the key but don't start the engine. Slowly move the throttle from fully closed to fully open (do this twice). Turn off the key. You can then start the engine normally.

ďRes ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet?Ē

Alan Stuber
2003 K1200 LTC Titan Silver
Austin, Texas



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post #21 of 21 Old Feb 14th, 2009, 11:12 am
Jim
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Re: Unusual Radio Issue on an '02 LTE

Ernie,

Don't know if you were able to repair the Dice unit. You may of seen it, but there is a used one for sale in the classifieds section.

Jim Anderson
Idyllwild, CA
'04 Ural Tourist
'08 Tiger
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