Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 8:16 pm Thread Starter
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Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Well although my LT is away for the winter, I have purchased some oil filters and the filter wrench, Napa Gold filters. I was wondering if I really need a torque wrench to complete the task. I likely won't be doing this until next fall, but If I do need a torque wrench, I may as well start looking for one now. I have always done my own oil and filter changes on all the bikes I have owned, and have never had a problem. I had the dealer do my oil change and final drive fluids back in Oct. as it was still under warranty and I wanted everything checked out. I know that the BMW is a bit different and this site hs all the dope on how to do it. What do you all think???????
Jim
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post #2 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 8:23 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

For an oil and filter change? Nope... Now...just be careful NOT to strip any bolts.

Jack Homesley
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post #3 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 8:28 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

I did my oil change once without using a torque wrench and my final drive failed...................

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post #4 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 8:45 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

I've done it myself a few times without the torque wrench, no problems. Since you've done stuff yourself on other bikes, you should be fine too.

Did you find the tutorial on this site on the oil change? It goes over the final drive, motor and tranny fluids. Very helpful and well done.

Just search in the technical articles section. I printed it out and keep it in a binder for quick reference. Some good tips in there that will save time and effort.

Have fun!

Steve
Chandler, AZ
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post #5 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 8:52 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Guess or know.
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post #6 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 8:54 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

I can't even begin to count the number of oil changes I've done on LT's without a torque wrench. The cams? You betcha.



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post #7 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 9:02 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattler50
I did my oil change once without using a torque wrench and my final drive failed...................
How in the world are you connecting the two? That's kinda like saying you changed the spark plugs and got a flat tire......
Look, if the torque is low on the oil oil plug, it will leak, or worse fall out..... if it is over torqued, you run the risk of stripping the threads...... Use the new crush washer, tighten the bolt well. No need to get a three foot breaker bar, but give it more than Richard Simmons could.

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post #8 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 9:02 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

In my opinion, torque wrench is important for three bolts holding the oil filter cover. It is so easy to overtorque and break those if you are not careful.
(been there, done that)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladiator99
Well although my LT is away for the winter, I have purchased some oil filters and the filter wrench, Napa Gold filters. I was wondering if I really need a torque wrench to complete the task. I likely won't be doing this until next fall, but If I do need a torque wrench, I may as well start looking for one now. I have always done my own oil and filter changes on all the bikes I have owned, and have never had a problem. I had the dealer do my oil change and final drive fluids back in Oct. as it was still under warranty and I wanted everything checked out. I know that the BMW is a bit different and this site hs all the dope on how to do it. What do you all think???????
Jim

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post #9 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 9:07 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
How in the world are you connecting the two? That's kinda like saying you changed the spark plugs and got a flat tire......
Funny you mentioned that, that's exactly what happened to me.

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post #10 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 9:11 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

What's a Torque Wrench??
Just don't be Igor and crank things down. Easy does it.

Just Go
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post #11 of 56 Old Dec 18th, 2008, 9:15 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

No...

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post #12 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 12:55 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattKas
In my opinion, torque wrench is important for three bolts holding the oil filter cover. It is so easy to overtorque and break those if you are not careful.
(been there, done that)

+1 those little f-ers are touchy.


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post #13 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 1:00 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

If you're worried about over torquing the filter cover bolts, use a 1/4" drive ratchet. You'd have to really WORK at it to break them with that. And if you are still worried, use a Snapon stubby 1/4" ratchet, no way you'll be able to break bolts with that.
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post #14 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 6:44 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

The three small bolts that fastened the filter cover break very easily. I haven't done it but many people have broken those off. Dave Shealey even had some upgraded bolts at one time to reduce the risk of this. You'll need the torque wrench for many other things on the bike so you might as well find one now. The filter cover bolts are way down around 10 N-m so you'll need a small torque wrench for those.

Good Luck,
Kevin

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post #15 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 7:13 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

I have never used a torque wrench for changing the oil. Other things, Yes!
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post #16 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 7:23 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochinosucio
How in the world are you connecting the two? That's kinda like saying you changed the spark plugs and got a flat tire......
Look, if the torque is low on the oil oil plug, it will leak, or worse fall out..... if it is over torqued, you run the risk of stripping the threads...... Use the new crush washer, tighten the bolt well. No need to get a three foot breaker bar, but give it more than Richard Simmons could.

I laughed out loud at rattler's post before I read this one. Did you really think he was serious?! It was a good, funny post. Yeah I forget to post the wink and it gets me in trouble with folks who read my posts as being serious when they are tongue in cheek.

All the fasteners in the oil change process are "non-critical" fasteners. You don't have to torque them. BUT... if you are not experienced at twisting nuts and bolts on these bikes, it can be surprising how little force is required. Many people have over tightened these bolts and stripped the threads in the aluminum engine casing or broken a bolt.

Experienced wrenches won't bother with a torque wrench to put the oil filter cover back on.

And, with a cheap torque wrench, or one set badly, or one that isn't the proper range for the light forces involved, you could easily strip or break those bolts while using a torque wrench.

Easy does it.
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post #17 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 7:51 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

And, with a cheap torque wrench, or one set badly, or one that isn't the proper range for the light forces involved, you could easily strip or break those bolts while using a torque wrench.

Easy does it.[/QUOTE]

+1 I just tossed a SEARS DIGITATORQUE that read high. The numbers in the window disappeared and Sears charged $30 to tell me it couldn't be fixed.
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post #18 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 8:11 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beets
And, with a cheap torque wrench, or one set badly, or one that isn't the proper range for the light forces involved, you could easily strip or break those bolts while using a torque wrench.

Easy does it.
+1 I just tossed a SEARS DIGITATORQUE that read high. The numbers in the window disappeared and Sears charged $30 to tell me it couldn't be fixed.[/QUOTE]


Two words... Snap On

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post #19 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 8:27 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Two words... Snap On [/QUOTE]

2 more words... Bending Beam-always in calibration.
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

If you are the type that thinks you have to tighten every nut and bolt down till it smokes them back off a half turn you need a torque wrench. If you have experience installing hard metal bolts of all sizes into aluminum threads probably will not need a torque wrench.

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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattler50
I did my oil change once without using a torque wrench and my final drive failed...................
Let that be a lesson to you!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladiator99
Well although my LT is away for the winter, I have purchased some oil filters and the filter wrench, Napa Gold filters. I was wondering if I really need a torque wrench to complete the task. I likely won't be doing this until next fall, but If I do need a torque wrench, I may as well start looking for one now. I have always done my own oil and filter changes on all the bikes I have owned, and have never had a problem. I had the dealer do my oil change and final drive fluids back in Oct. as it was still under warranty and I wanted everything checked out. I know that the BMW is a bit different and this site hs all the dope on how to do it. What do you all think???????
Jim
Yes, yes, and yes and you need two wrenches. ft lbs /inche/MM Why take the chance and GUESS! It will get expensive.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, how will you find the time (and money) to do it again.

Common sense, in my opinion.

We all have an opinion and this is mine. And I'm sticking to it.

By the way, I'd be interested in attending a brake bleeding tech session on an '03 LT somewhere north of Kansas City. Just saying!


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post #23 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 10:24 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beets
Two words... Snap On
2 more words... Bending Beam-always in calibration.[/QUOTE]

Agree. However, for something like a drain plug, it is very hard to read a bend beam style torque wrench. I use my bending beam when I can, but do like the click style and if they are a high quality brand they tend to hold calibration reasonably well as shown here:

http://home.jtan.com/~joe/KIAT/kiat_3.htm

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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azredline
I've done it myself a few times without the torque wrench, no problems. Since you've done stuff yourself on other bikes, you should be fine too.

Did you find the tutorial on this site on the oil change? It goes over the final drive, motor and tranny fluids. Very helpful and well done.

Just search in the technical articles section. I printed it out and keep it in a binder for quick reference. Some good tips in there that will save time and effort.

Have fun!
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a question regarding the oil change tutorial.

I searched the technical articles as directed and found this: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/articles...rticle&artid=4.

It says it's for a 2005 LT. How different is the 05 from the 04LT? Can I use this tutorial for my 04? Is there another tutorial for the 04?

I'm going to attempt my first fluid change soon and would like to be armed with proper knowledge.

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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Well...I don't know about the differences in an '04 and an '05, but before you do an oil change on a BMW you better go buy THREE very high quality torque wrenches and have them calibrated before every change.

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by razman10
It says it's for a 2005 LT. How different is the 05 from the 04LT? Can I use this tutorial for my 04? Is there another tutorial for the 04?

I'm going to attempt my first fluid change soon and would like to be armed with proper knowledge.
There is only the interference of the Hydraulic Center Stand Actuator style skid plate that is different. It is less work on the 04 since you don't have to remove the plate to get at the filter cover screws. Go for it.

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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
Well...I don't know about the differences in an '04 and an '05, but before you do an oil change on a BMW you better go buy THREE very high quality torque wrenches and have them calibrated before every change.

My mechanic has ten ( no kidding! ) All Snap On.
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernvernvern
Yes, yes, and yes and you need two wrenches. ft lbs /inche/MM Why take the chance and GUESS! It will get expensive.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, how will you find the time (and money) to do it again.

Common sense, in my opinion.

We all have an opinion and this is mine. And I'm sticking to it.

By the way, I'd be interested in attending a brake bleeding tech session on an '03 LT somewhere north of Kansas City. Just saying!
Like I said.
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

All German Bolt Torque specs are "Guden-tight!"

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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
What's a Torque Wrench??
Just don't be Igor and crank things down. Easy does it.
Remember crank down and stop one turn before it breaks.

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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

I think I have at least 6!!!!!! Luv dem tools!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mljmd7
My mechanic has ten ( no kidding! ) All Snap On.

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Cornelius, NC USA
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post #33 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 4:08 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Forget what everyone else has said and live by this logic.

If you think you need the tool and you can justify it to the wife then buy it. Make sure your wife knows that without it you could break something and then you really have some big expenses. I would maybe buy a 1\4" 3\8" and 1\2". Better to safe then sorry.


You most likely don't need it for the oil change but your forgetting the basics of Garage logic. The number one rule is never give up an opportunity to buy a tool.

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post #34 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 5:57 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by razman10
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a question regarding the oil change tutorial.

I searched the technical articles as directed and found this: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/articles...rticle&artid=4.

It says it's for a 2005 LT. How different is the 05 from the 04LT? Can I use this tutorial for my 04? Is there another tutorial for the 04?

I'm going to attempt my first fluid change soon and would like to be armed with proper knowledge.
I used the tutorial with great success on my 2000, so you should have no problems.

Steve
Chandler, AZ
2000 BMW 1200LT


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post #35 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 5:59 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Snuck off to Foxwoods Casino - won a few hundred $'s play Holdem. Bought the torque wrench. SO never new.
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post #36 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 6:13 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom1200
Forget what everyone else has said and live by this logic.

The number one rule is never give up an opportunity to buy a tool.
hear, hear
You just can't beat that kind of logic .


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post #37 of 56 Old Dec 19th, 2008, 9:25 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom1200
Forget what everyone else has said and live by this logic.

If you think you need the tool and you can justify it to the wife then buy it. Make sure your wife knows that without it you could break something and then you really have some big expenses. I would maybe buy a 1\4" 3\8" and 1\2". Better to safe then sorry.


You most likely don't need it for the oil change but your forgetting the basics of Garage logic. The number one rule is never give up an opportunity to buy a tool.
That would make the number two rule "it is a lot easier to ask the wife's forgiveness than it is to get permission in the first place."
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post #38 of 56 Old Dec 20th, 2008, 12:18 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

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That would make the number two rule "it is a lot easier to beg for the wife's forgiveness than it is to get permission in the first place."
OK, now it's correct.



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post #39 of 56 Old Dec 20th, 2008, 12:19 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

If you need a Torque Wrench to do an oil/filter change....you ARE NOT a Mechanic.


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post #40 of 56 Old Dec 20th, 2008, 6:12 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

The only thing that outnumbers my torque wrenches is my Ease Outs and HeliCoil kits..................I'm the world's worst at twisting off bolts. I've become very adept at removing them at work. I've also learned that repeated insertion and removal of steel bolts into cast aluminum will weaken the threads. I can't imagine trying to drill out one of the cover bolts on the bottom of the motor on the LT. I twisted one out of the bell housing when I replaced the clutch. I won't do that again...........

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post #41 of 56 Old Dec 20th, 2008, 8:26 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

I have 3 snap-on & two matco torque wrenches. One torqmeter type & 4 click type. Most click type torque wrenches instructions say do not loosen fasteners with this wrench. Its the snap you get on breakaway torque that can change the calibration.

Also you can use a beam or breakaway type torque wrench to check the calibration on your click type. A 12 point socket of same drive size hooked to both wrenches. Set click type at 1/2 it's range and watch the beam or dial when it clicks.

+1 on what pastor jack says: my snap-on & matco torque wrenches are up to 30 years old & have been checked yearly for calibration on a certified machine and have never been off.

I only use my torque wrench on the final drive oil change.

Dave Selvig
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post #42 of 56 Old Apr 3rd, 2010, 9:51 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

does a doctor use a torque wrench with a scapula ,, turning wrenches takes a certain feal that comes with experience youll know when you get there but i do torque the cam towers and bearings,,
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post #43 of 56 Old Apr 4th, 2010, 2:08 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Which brings up another point. If you use a tourqe wrench to thighten the oil filter to spec, it seems way too tight. I did this the last time and then read a thread about the filter not coming off. I am very nervous about the filter not coming off next time. I won't be doing that again.

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...t=filter+stuck

If you wrench at all, you should have a tourqe wrench in your tool box. They are so cheap it makes no sense to guess. I have used both my NM and FT LB tourqe wrenches countless times on my bikes. I never wonder if something is going to fall or snap off while going down the road at 80MPH. Well i do a little
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post #44 of 56 Old Apr 4th, 2010, 2:36 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

For example,
Years ago on my Toyota mini truck I changed the leaf springs on the rear.
I did not torque the fastener nuts.
I thought they were plenty tight.
It did not take long for them to loosen off and consequently break the mounting bracket.

Today I torque most everything. It gives me peace of mind and satisfaction that it is done correctly.

Including wheel nuts on the car.

Eric von Laue

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post #45 of 56 Old Apr 4th, 2010, 9:27 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallygator
does a doctor use a torque wrench with a scapula ,, turning wrenches takes a certain feal that comes with experience youll know when you get there but i do torque the cam towers and bearings,,
I don't know about that, but the oral surgeon that installed my tooth implants used a cute little torque wrench to install the titanium implants in my jaw bone! There was little pain, but I have to admit that the ratcheting sound was really annoying as it resonated through my skull!!

And they cost even more than BMW tools!
http://restorative-products.salvin.c...l?parentId=332

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post #46 of 56 Old Apr 5th, 2010, 11:30 am
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

I wouldn't torque the filter, spin until you feel the gasket contact the seat, and turn 1/2 turn farther. On the plate & plug, if you don't have a torque wrench, borrow one and use it the first time paying attention to the force you exert. On future changes, use touch, based on your prior experience.

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post #47 of 56 Old Apr 5th, 2010, 10:35 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mljmd7
My mechanic has ten ( no kidding! ) All Snap On.

Your mechanic is a toolaholic; he must get the shakes without a regular walk through the Snap-On truck. Poor boy!

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post #48 of 56 Old Mar 21st, 2013, 1:39 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Is there any practical way to check a torque wrench's accuracy? I bought an inexpensive one from Harbor Freight and I worry about whether it is really accurate or does the number just give you a false sense of confidence?
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post #49 of 56 Old Mar 21st, 2013, 2:12 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

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Originally Posted by bartman49
Is there any practical way to check a torque wrench's accuracy? I bought an inexpensive one from Harbor Freight and I worry about whether it is really accurate or does the number just give you a false sense of confidence?
Bartman

Yes but it requires some measuring and math. Find a weight equal to the setting you want. For example 50 lbs. Clamp the drive part of the wrench in a vise. Measure the distance from the center of the drive to some place convenient on the handle marked with tape and a pencil line. For example 12". Hang the 50 lb weight on a string tied to the mark on the handle and have the wrench horizontal with the floor when reading. If it is a dial type it should read close to 50 ft. lbs. If it is a click type you will have to play with it a bit to feel the click. Just do the math for other distances from the center and weights to calculate ft. lbs.

Hope this helps, Robert

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post #50 of 56 Old Mar 21st, 2013, 6:37 pm
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Re: Do I Really Need A Torque Wrench For An Oil Change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartman49
Is there any practical way to check a torque wrench's accuracy? I bought an inexpensive one from Harbor Freight and I worry about whether it is really accurate or does the number just give you a false sense of confidence?
Bartman
It is pretty easy to "mate" one torque wrench to another using an appropriate sized socket. I don't have any 'spensive torque wrenches, but I have a few: one 1/2 drive bar-deflection type, and a couple of "clickers", 3/8" and 1/4" drive. The clickers are probably chinese vended by Northern Tool or Harbor Freight.

Just 'cuz I'm curious, some time ago, I worked one against another. I was surprised that they were pretty close.

If you have a known, good quality wrench you could get a pretty good idea how accurate your H.F. wrench is by pitting against another more trusted torque wrench. This method is only as good as the wrench you are testing against, but is simpler than setting up weights and doing calculations.

The actual torque applied to a fastener is influenced by rust, grime, grit, galled threads, lubrication, and the application of the torquing force. If you stop and start the force application, you'll get a different end result than if you apply a steady, constant force until the desired setting on the torque wrench is achieved. I suspect these variables are a bigger factor than is the accuracy of my torque wrenches.
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