Would you buy a diesel powered LT? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 10:56 am Thread Starter
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Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Just curious. IF there were to be a diesel powerd LT type bike out there that had decent BHP and loads of torque (as diesels do) and also did 100+mpg, would you buy one?
Diesels can be very quiet now, some just as quiet as a a petrol engine. On a bike like the LT, built for touring, it would be amazingly economical. Probably not so good for the sports bike riders though!

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post #2 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 11:11 am
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Put a turbo on it and it wouldn't have a problem keeping up with the sport bikes.

I'd ride one without a problem.

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post #3 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 11:20 am
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Absolutely! Diesel engines last much longer and get much better mileage.
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post #4 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 11:32 am
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

+2
Back in the day had 2 early non turbo rabbit diesels. Got 48+ and the harder I ran the engines the better they ran. Used to run up the high passes flat out in 3rd gear to blow the carbon out. Afterwards the mileage and performance would go up noticeable. Would start without block heater in just about any weather and if I kept a clean fuel filter in, wouldn't gel up either in -20 weather. Just about bullet proof and so very easy to work on. Only problem was ruptured a higher pressure fuel line to an injector and had to limp home on 3 cylinders from about 80 miles out. You think the early VW diesels vibrated? Try one on 3 cylinders some time. A low pressure, high air flow TDI diesel LT would be the bees knees.

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post #5 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 11:40 am
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

And I forgot to mention, you can run it on vegetable oil!
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post #6 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 11:42 am
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Very much so, especially as there would be less ignition and idling problems.

The only disadvantage would be the weight.
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post #7 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 11:49 am
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

kill two birds with one stone.

I have always wanted a turkey or hot oil cooker but what do you do with the oil after you use it, or how many times can you use the oil...

now there would be a way to dispose of the oil.

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post #8 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 12:24 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

I would consider it, but price would be a determining factor. Typically, diesels are more expensive to purchase and maintain, which is worth it if you need the towing torque. If not, I would have to run the numbers to see what the payout would be.

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post #9 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 12:27 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

ooo...yeah. Add a Bully Dog chip and one of those big, fat exhaust stacks to make it sound like a Mac truck..............oohhhh, yeah, baby!


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post #10 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 12:38 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Fat stacks. Yeah... that's the ticket.... and a fifth wheel hitch in place of the top box, too.

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post #11 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 1:45 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
Just curious. IF there were to be a diesel powerd LT type bike out there that had decent BHP and loads of torque (as diesels do) and also did 100+mpg, would you buy one?
Diesels can be very quiet now, some just as quiet as a a petrol engine. On a bike like the LT, built for touring, it would be amazingly economical. Probably not so good for the sports bike riders though!

Simon
Diesels seldom can achieve efficiencies more than 25% above that for a similar performance gas engine. So, a 100 MPG LT would be a pig as to get twice the mileage of a gas LT would require accepting much less performance.

I certainly would be interested in an LT diesel if it was done well and performed similar to my 2007. However, I suspect the extra weight would not be a good think just to get 10-15 more MPG.

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post #12 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 2:18 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Interesting concept. It would still depend on a test ride. If it doesn't feel right, then I don't care how much torque it has or what kind of mpg it gets.

Just put a stroked 1400cc slant/4 motor in the new LT and lose at least 100 lbs and all will be fine. Oh, and a double-sided swing arm, please.

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post #13 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 2:32 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Oh, and a double-sided swing arm, please.

Why would you want to mess around with a double sided swing arm? Then you'd have to monkey with wheel alignment.

I'm waiting for a Lefty front end, like my mountain bike has.

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post #14 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 2:59 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbarstow
Why would you want to mess around with a double sided swing arm?
I reckon some of the folks are kind of burned out on rear end failures.



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post #15 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 3:26 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Someone needs to research a method of installing a GWing final drive in place of our LT ones.

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post #16 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 9:15 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
Just curious. IF there were to be a diesel powerd LT type bike out there...

What, isn't the current LT already a diesel? They sure sound like one.

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post #17 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 10:21 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

If a diesel LT ran like my VW Passat TDI, yes - I would!

Of course, you'd have to reconcile paying a lot more for every gallon of fuel. If the fuel efficiency more than offset the higher cost of diesel, a diesel LT could be a winner. And just think - we could have diesel debates on this site!

Kawasaki has a diesel version of the KLR, first available to the military and now available (?) to the public - but at a major price premium.

<edit>If you're interested: http://www.m1030.com/

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post #18 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 10:58 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbarstow
Why would you want to mess around with a double sided swing arm?
Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
I reckon some of the folks are kind of burned out on rear end failures.
Bingo. I do like how simple it is to change a rear tire, but I'd much rather take an extra 20 minutes when changing tires than sit on the side of the road for several hours waiting on a tow truck.

Besides, you could retain the shaft drive, then there wouldn't be any alignment issues. You can even keep the Paralever geometry, as that works very well. Just give me equal weight distribution over two equally sized bearings and all these problems would simply disappear.

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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #19 of 40 Old Nov 4th, 2008, 11:00 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Waitin for an electric two wheeler with storage like the Burgman to ride around town.

Bob

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post #20 of 40 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 6:22 am
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

I'd buy a diesel powered LT if it had a walk-in sleeper with TV and microwave and air brakes and a hydraulic grade retarder............

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post #21 of 40 Old Jul 19th, 2009, 12:43 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

i had a 99 jetta tdi. got 53 mpg on highway with cruise set at 75. daughter still drives it. loved it..
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post #22 of 40 Old Jul 19th, 2009, 1:22 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

My first car was a VW rabbit diesel. I loved the gas mileage and even today, I would prefer mileage over more power. Two things that I didn't like was the pre-heating of the engine and mixing kerosene in colder weather. I am not familiar with the diesels of today so I don't know if these issues have been addressed.

I would be happy to ride a cycle that cruises easily at 70-80 mph and gets 70-80 mpg no matter what the fuel it consumes.

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post #23 of 40 Old Jul 19th, 2009, 4:52 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Chad..............

It really does not matter what kind of diesel you have or who makes it.........the grade of fuel is the problem when the weather turns cold..................anything less than #1 kerosene is going to gel when the air gets cold..................A turbo on a KLT would probably be good............like Meese said; it would still depend on what it felt like.................If you could mess with the boost and get what you wanted, I'd ride one..............And if all that comes into play then you should be able to burn french fry oil if thats what is available....................$.02............
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post #24 of 40 Old Jul 19th, 2009, 5:15 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Typically, a diesel with the same overall power output as a gasoline engine will be considerably heavier. The much higher compression ration and higher combustion pressure requires more strength in most of the engine components, thus higher weight. In the past there have been automotive diesels which were basically adaptations of an existing gasoline engine with minor beef ups, but none of these had decent life expectancy.

In a bike like the LT, where most would like a lighter bike, a diesel is probably unlikely.

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post #25 of 40 Old Jul 19th, 2009, 5:40 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

No

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post #26 of 40 Old Jul 19th, 2009, 5:59 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

yes i wood ive had 3 vw rabbit deisels last 1 a arm rusted in to with 297000 miles so i put that moter and trans n a golf cart 7-8 yrs ago still runs great 1 olds deisel and have 2 deisel pickups now a 83 chevy with 250000 miles and a 99 powerstroker with 150000 luv deisels
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post #27 of 40 Old Jul 19th, 2009, 7:21 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
If a diesel LT ran like my VW Passat TDI, yes - I would!

Of course, you'd have to reconcile paying a lot more for every gallon of fuel. If the fuel efficiency more than offset the higher cost of diesel, a diesel LT could be a winner. And just think - we could have diesel debates on this site!

Kawasaki has a diesel version of the KLR, first available to the military and now available (?) to the public - but at a major price premium.

<edit>If you're interested: http://www.m1030.com/
Royal Enfield has made diesel powered bikes for some time as well. In warm weather a good relationship with a Chinese restaurant (they use peanut oil which makes good fuel) and you can run at about $0.50/gallon. I know several people who make their own and the University of Colorado runs much of their equipment on used fry oil.

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post #28 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 8:33 am
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Yes I would. I currently have a 96 Passat TDI, which I use as a back-up, with 156,000 and It's a great car. Diesel have always been a favorite of mine and I would least test dive a turbo-diesel charged BMW!
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post #29 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 9:31 am
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

About 3 months ago I was talking about trading in the LT at my BMW dealer...the head mechanic said I should wait till the turbo diesel LT comes out...don't know if he really knows or is just

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post #30 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 2:55 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Typically, a diesel with the same overall power output as a gasoline engine will be considerably heavier. The much higher compression ration and higher combustion pressure requires more strength in most of the engine components, thus higher weight. In the past there have been automotive diesels which were basically adaptations of an existing gasoline engine with minor beef ups, but none of these had decent life expectancy.

In a bike like the LT, where most would like a lighter bike, a diesel is probably unlikely.
Well, you are writing about the half-hearted attempt at American passenger-car diesel motors from a generation ago. That was indeed a disaster - as evidenced by a certain 1980 Olds Cutlass diesel I had more acquaintance with than I'd wish.

But European car diesels are something else altogether, especially nowadays - and that was what the OP had in mind, I presume.

These are great motors and, for many years now, I keep saying that I'd love to buy them here if available on anything else but the lowliest of econoboxes, as it seems to be for some unknown reason.

I drive rentals in Europe several times a year and I'd say that probably for a decade now it is almost impossible to rent a gas engined car. So, my experience with these engines is pretty good. In particular, the TDI motors are excellent powerplants. I typically wind up with something like an Audi A4 - and twice recently I have been having some mountain fun in a Ford Mondeo with a 2L TDI.

Not a slug at all (and one does appreciate power when playing the usual game of chicken, passing while the opposite lane is occupied - just another quaint local custom in Eastern Europe... ) And, the Mondeo, while probably classed as mid-sized here, got some 50+ mpg last I checked.

On the other hand, after this big write-up in defense of diesels - would I get one for the LT? I don't know, it certainly has geek appeal for me. On the other hand, as far as the fuel economy savings go, it really does not matter. Several thousand miles a year on that bike may not justify the change.

Robert in Northern NJ

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post #31 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 2:58 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

I would say out of my guts the guy's full of it. But then OTOH I *WOULD* buy a diesel LT in an instant. Hell it would be my prefered engine for a TOURING bike. low rpm, high torque at low rpm and if it's done with the right sound suppressor very quiet.

I too run a diesel car as my cage, and beside the one time when Flying J had contaminated fuel it was and is a fun talking to folks and telling them that i get between 37 and 43mpg in a car the size of the Passat.

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post #32 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 3:17 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrdr
Y.. I would at least test dive a turbo-diesel charged BMW!
Well, in the car land, a couple of years ago I drove a 300-series staton wagon with 1.8l turbo diesel from Munich to Frankfurt. Nice ride, the sweet spot was cruising at about 180km/h. Only rented it one-way for that day; it was weird to have half of the tank left when dropping off...

So, the company has already a good experience with these motors. And since the K-engine is really a car engine in disguise... heck, at least as a technological showoff it could do. Sort of like the Audi R10 diesel winning 24 Hours of Le Mans.

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post #33 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 3:35 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
... telling them that i get between 37 and 43mpg in a car the size of the Passat.
Shuts up the self-righteous owners of hybrid microcars, doesn't it?

By the way, to make you smile: the current Passat CC, when equipped with 2.0L TDI engine rated 140 or 170 horsepower DIN (there are two performance versions), tops off at 130-140 mph and is rated 38/41 equivalent mpg city/highway. A little more than Prius, which has 45/48mpg, but a hell lot more of fun.

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post #34 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 4:09 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwalker
Well, you are writing about the half-hearted attempt at American passenger-car diesel motors from a generation ago. That was indeed a disaster - as evidenced by a certain 1980 Olds Cutlass diesel I had more acquaintance with than I'd wish.

But European car diesels are something else altogether, especially nowadays - and that was what the OP had in mind, I presume.---------------------------------------------
I was not thinking anything negative about a diesel at all, and have absolutely nothing against them. Worked on them as an Engineman in the Coast Guard, boat size up to large shipboard ones. The newer diesel automotive engines are quite good.

I was only stating that for equal overall power output, a diesel must be heavier than an "equivalent" gasoline engine due to the higher pressures/torque involved. Since diesels produce their power band at a relatively low RPM/high torque, they cannot be made as light as an engine producing the same horsepower at higher RPM/lower torque.

Aircraft diesels have been tried since the early 1900's, but only in the last decade have efforts been renewed due to the reduction in output of AvGas. Efforts by Lycoming and Continental seemingly stalled after original fanfare. Still, weight is the enemy, but since props work best at pretty low RPM (around 3000 RPM) this falls into diesel RPM ranges quite well.

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post #35 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 7:36 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwalker
... SNIP ...
These are great motors and, for many years now, I keep saying that I'd love to buy them here if available on anything else but the lowliest of econoboxes, as it seems to be for some unknown reason.... SNIP ...
Hmmm, lesse: AFAIK the current diesel lineup in the US available:

VW:
Beetle: $18-22k
Golf: $20-25k
Jetta: $21-26k
Passat: $30-35k

Audi:
Q7: $40-50k

Mercedes:
E320: $60-70k

Lowliest of econoboxes? I must have missed something in the selection of my job, and I certainly do not know what you drive or consider a lowly econobox, but there are several cars on the list that *I* do not consider econobox.

Please note that I do not claim that this is list is complete nor 100% correct as it may be outdated by a year and there may be even more available that I did not mention. Just something to think about.

Andreas Pleschutznig
'14 GSAW soon:
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post #36 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 7:38 pm
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Location: Gold Country, CA, USA
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

The bike would need a Jake Brake, in order to facilitate braking on downshift...

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
Sold but "beloved" ride: K12 LT - "Pepe"
IBA #31242 (SSx2, BB, BBG)
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post #37 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 9:13 pm
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

jake brake with duel stacks like mr.lincolin now u r talkin dont 4 get de super tuner turned up sho she'll smoke like a freight
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post #38 of 40 Old Jul 20th, 2009, 10:17 pm
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Location: West Milford, NJ, USA
Posts: 978
Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
...AFAIK the current diesel lineup in the US available:...
Fair enough, I stand corrected. Have been looking to replace wife's A6 and the Q7 was a bit too much. A Passat, though...
OTOH, being self-employed in today's economy, maybe I am only dreaming now about a new car...

Robert in Northern NJ

'09 R12GS, '08 R12RT, '03 R1150RT, '01 F650GS - time to thin the herd?


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post #39 of 40 Old Jul 21st, 2009, 8:05 am
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

You can add the BMW 335d (a member of our club took European delivery of one about 6 weeks ago) and the X5 can now be had with a diesel.

Alex H Lindsay
Melbourne, FL
Champagne 2001 LT
Space Coast BMW Riders
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post #40 of 40 Old Jul 21st, 2009, 8:59 am
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Location: Aurora, CO, USA
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Re: Would you buy a diesel powered LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
Hmmm, lesse: AFAIK the current diesel lineup in the US available:

VW:
Beetle: $18-22k
Golf: $20-25k
Jetta: $21-26k
Passat: $30-35k

Audi:
Q7: $40-50k

Mercedes:
E320: $60-70k

Lowliest of econoboxes? I must have missed something in the selection of my job, and I certainly do not know what you drive or consider a lowly econobox, but there are several cars on the list that *I* do not consider econobox.

Please note that I do not claim that this is list is complete nor 100% correct as it may be outdated by a year and there may be even more available that I did not mention. Just something to think about.
265hp
36mpg
$43,900
335d sedan

This car is a hoot to drive, doesn't smoke and is very quiet.

The same engine is also available in the X5.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

Just ride it!
Meet Riley

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