Need some pro help..... look at the pics - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 13 Old Oct 10th, 2008, 3:55 pm Thread Starter
 
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Need some pro help..... look at the pics

I just did some normal maintenance on my 2001 K1200 LT, Oil, FD, and plugs. It has just over 60,000 miles on it and no other issues since I've owend it (3months, 10,000 miles ago). However when I bought it from the dealership they told me it had been fully serviced. I changed the plugs anyway when I first bought it and they were pretty nasty. When I changed them today, 9,500 miles later the picture attached shows what they look like. They are sitting in order of placement in the bike (front of the bike to the left). Obviously the fourth plug is quite a bit more fouled than the others..... so not being a wrenching expert like all else on this site, what is this indicative of??? I haven't have the valves adjused and don't know where they were when I bought it. Is that something I should look at??? Also I am still getting only about 40 mpg and it certainly isn't changing (see maintenance log). Any suggestions???

Thanks for the help guys.

Brian Truex
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post #2 of 13 Old Oct 10th, 2008, 4:20 pm
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Re: Need some pro help..... look at the pics

Tough to tell looking at plugs pictures ?

But agree some things wrong at #4,
**If the black nasties is OIL fouling then I would suspect 2 sources.

First being damaged ring grooves in piston from detonation. This allows rings
to flutter slightly allowing oil to get by and get burnt during combustion

Second being a worn out valve guide wiper seal.

**If just rich mixture carbon fouling ? Would make sure the fuel injector is not bad & the throttle body synchronization is correct.

JMO, sure others will chime in

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post #3 of 13 Old Oct 10th, 2008, 4:35 pm
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Re: Need some pro help..... look at the pics

All of the plug wires wrap around the # 4 plug cap, thereby making it difficult to snap the cap in place completely. Often the #4 wire isn't seated and doesn't get quite the spark it needs to burn clean. I had this on mine and when I replaced plugs and made sure it was on right, it ran so much better. Prior to that it hunted at an idle and had a slight bit of hesitation just above an idle on takeoff.

HTH,

Ron


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747,891 miles on touring motorcycles since 1990

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2000 LTC 90,600 miles KIA (new)
2003 LTE 164,188 miles Silver (Purchased with 1687)
2008 R1200RT 176,196 miles (Purchased with 16458)
2017 R1200RT 96,669miles (new)
Total BMW miles 509,508
1982 GL1100 rode 84108 miles (bought with 12012 sold 96120)
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post #4 of 13 Old Oct 10th, 2008, 4:46 pm
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Re: Need some pro help..... look at the pics

You might consider replacing the plug wires.... if #4 is not flowing properly, you might get a plug to look like that.

Another possibility is unbalanced injector flow. I would suggest, if you want to verify, would be to change the injector positions... that is kind of difficult....

To ensure your cylinders are okay, do a pressure and bleed-down test. That's pretty easy to do.

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post #5 of 13 Old Oct 10th, 2008, 6:20 pm
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Re: Need some pro help..... look at the pics

Do you mostly park the bike on the side stand by any chance? This could explain the amount of oil going to the plugs. Your gas mileage can also be caused by a bad O2 sensor.

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post #6 of 13 Old Oct 10th, 2008, 8:45 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need some pro help..... look at the pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Do you mostly park the bike on the side stand by any chance? This could explain the amount of oil going to the plugs. Your gas mileage can also be caused by a bad O2 sensor.
The bike is NEVER on the side stand and I had the faults read on the bike (GS-911) a month or two ago and no fault on the O2 sensor. I replaced the plugs today, so I think I'll check them in a week and see if there is a noticeable difference. Hopefully it's something simple.
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post #7 of 13 Old Oct 10th, 2008, 9:00 pm
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Question for a motor officer

Brian,
Can't help with the plug situation but would ask a question of you.

Recently purchased the instructional video from Motorcops.com.
All the demos are on HD's. I am curious as to the adjustment you have to make to the LT?. The CG is a bit higher than the HD's. So, are you abilities such that there is no transition? You motor officers are amazing.

I have a 2000 LT and have had several HD's. I really enjoy the BMW but in 90' enjoyed the FLHS.

Did not intend to hijack this thread, just curious.

Thanks,
Bill & Vera
KLR & 2000 KLT
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post #8 of 13 Old Oct 10th, 2008, 9:35 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: Question for a motor officer

Quote:
Originally Posted by PECCHI
Brian,
Can't help with the plug situation but would ask a question of you.

Recently purchased the instructional video from Motorcops.com.
All the demos are on HD's. I am curious as to the adjustment you have to make to the LT?. The CG is a bit higher than the HD's. So, are you abilities such that there is no transition? You motor officers are amazing.

I have a 2000 LT and have had several HD's. I really enjoy the BMW but in 90' enjoyed the FLHS.

Did not intend to hijack this thread, just curious.

Thanks,
Bill & Vera
KLR & 2000 KLT
Well, first of all, I'm not familiar with the video from Motorcops, but the best video in my opinion is "Ride like a Pro". The adjustment from work to play was a little interesting at first. Mainly because I kept on reaching for my cruise control button at work!!! The only way to describe it is different. The HD is a lot lower center of gravity and you catch the foot pegs and frame a lot quicker. The dealership has to replace my footboards and frame rail supports every three months because I grind them off on turns. (See attached picture, I turned around one day and picked up a road reflector on my filed down kick stand) The main adjustment is trusting the bike to stay up. When you lean it all the way over and catch the center stand and drivers foot rest the first time it scares you. On my work bike I can turn 360 circles in 16 foot circles, but on the LT the tightest I've gotten is 19 ft. I would suggest taking the lessons they teach in the video and be cautious that the LT is a lot more top heavy and not as easily trusted in the low speed quick turn excercises. Once you gain the confidence you can do anything on the LT you can do on a Harley. I do balance stops at red lights, slalom the cones on our police course and do 180 degree turns on our two way curbed street all the time. The higher speed stuff you just need to take to heart the countersteering technique and LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO!!! ( which does not apply when you have two bikes tied together like the picture in my signature) If you have any specific questions one you watch the video PM me and have fun!!!
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post #9 of 13 Old Oct 10th, 2008, 10:03 pm
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Re: Need some pro help..... look at the pics

I haven't seen many pixs of LT plugs. The one I remember had plugs that look like mine when I change them with plug 4 the most colored. But my plug 4 looks way better than your best looking one.

As far as I remember Dave S reported the worst experience with piston rings.
A few people have gone over 100K and not reported fowled plugs like yours.

Bob 00LT

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post #10 of 13 Old Oct 10th, 2008, 10:52 pm
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Re: Need some pro help..... look at the pics

I seem to have a very similar problem. Ranging idle, rough running to the point of not riding. Gas milage is down by 20%. My #4 is fouling out. it also seems that the #4 (and #1 to a lesser extent) aren't getting the same amount of spark. I've tried to check the obvious but no joy so far.

I'm also on a 2000. So come on you master wrenchers...

Clueless Jim
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post #11 of 13 Old Oct 11th, 2008, 1:25 am
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Re: Need some pro help..... look at the pics

If mileage is suffering I would look to the O2 sensor, I doubt the P.O. ever had it changed. The GS911 or scanners won't give you a "fault" for the O2 sensor unless it is dead or wildly out of range. When looking at O2 sensor data on a scanner you are looking at the "cross counts". Cross counts is the number of times the O2 sensor swings from rich to lean . The voltage should swing above and below 450mV. If your cross counts are low, you have a "lazy" O2 sensor (replace it) and if you have no cross counts you have a bad sensor.
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post #12 of 13 Old Oct 11th, 2008, 9:23 am
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Re: Need some pro help..... look at the pics

I always use the KISS rule, I would change the plug wires first.

And make sure that #4 wire is seated properly.


My initial reaction is the worst case scenario. But I know to start with the easiest/cheapest first and go from there.

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post #13 of 13 Old Oct 11th, 2008, 10:21 am
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Re: Need some pro help..... look at the pics

Assuming there's no oil on the plug nose (and I can't see anything shiny), I very much doubt if it's the O2 sensor. The RH plug shows a very rich mixture, the middle two plugs look spot on to me and the LH one looks just a bit on the rich side. If only the sensor were duff then all the plugs would be wrong. All the plugs should be the same colour but they're not so the problem is either:
  1. air distribution - all four cylinders are not getting the same amount
  2. fuel supply - cylinders 1 and 4 are getting too much
My bike had a problem with the butterflies on the air-inlet manifold, with one not seating properly, and its mileage dropped alarmingly as a result. It took my dealer ages to find and they swapped the entire manifold because the bike was still under warranty. I would not be surprised if the butterflies on this bike needed to be reset on their spindle so that they all close together. That is not the same as resetting the Motronic potentiometer but is the physical movement of the four butterflies so that they close at precisely the same time.

I suspect the alternative is to have the injectors serviced.

For sure, do all the simple (and cheap!) things first because no trip to the dealer is going to be easy on the pocket, especially if it means delving into the LT's bowels. If at all possible, change one thing at a time and recheck before you do anything else so you can keep track. If you screw up - and everyone does once in a while - you'll only have the last adjustment to redo.

Keith


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