Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 27 Old Sep 2nd, 2008, 9:07 pm Thread Starter
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Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

I have a 2002 K1200LT. Last Saturday I was coming home and the headlights and dashlights started to flicker when turning over 4500 rpm's. I figured it was a bad battery. I put a new one on today and the lights still flicker over 4500 rpm's. I have taken the new battery neutral back off and then turned the ignition on without starting the bike, rotated the throttle all the way twice, turned it back off and then started it again. It still does the same thing. The alternator light is not on.
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post #2 of 27 Old Sep 2nd, 2008, 9:10 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Look for loose mounting bolts on the starter. They are the ground path for the load shed relay and when they are loose they will cause exactly the symptom you describe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpreacher1
I have a 2002 K1200LT. Last Saturday I was coming home and the headlights and dashlights started to flicker when turning over 4500 rpm's. I figured it was a bad battery. I put a new one on today and the lights still flicker over 4500 rpm's. I have taken the new battery neutral back off and then turned the ignition on without starting the bike, rotated the throttle all the way twice, turned it back off and then started it again. It still does the same thing. The alternator light is not on.
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post #3 of 27 Old Sep 2nd, 2008, 10:57 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Same thing happened to me and it was exactly the same cause. The load relay on the starter. Not hard to fix if you can get at it. Good thing mine is still under warranty and was fixed on BMW NA nickle.


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post #4 of 27 Old Feb 7th, 2015, 8:20 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

OK I'm Sure this thread is pretty cold, but does anyone have an idea on how to get to that starter bolt? I don't mind turning wrenches, I just gotta know where I'm turning them.
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post #5 of 27 Old Feb 7th, 2015, 8:39 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmasci View Post
OK I'm Sure this thread is pretty cold, but does anyone have an idea on how to get to that starter bolt? I don't mind turning wrenches, I just gotta know where I'm turning them.
See this previous thread where you will find requested info including a good picture from JZEILER post:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...s-cut-out.html

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post #6 of 27 Old Feb 8th, 2015, 7:57 am
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
See this previous thread where you will find requested info including a good picture from JZEILER post:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...s-cut-out.html
Hey Sailor -- Thanks for the reply, and I did see that post originally, and I guess I should rephrase the question. What tupperware do I have to remove to get to that bolt? Is it on the right, left, or do I have to remove it all? Thanks!
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post #7 of 27 Old Feb 8th, 2015, 9:02 am
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmasci View Post
OK I'm Sure this thread is pretty cold, but does anyone have an idea on how to get to that starter bolt? I don't mind turning wrenches, I just gotta know where I'm turning them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
See this previous thread where you will find requested info including a good picture from JZEILER post:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...s-cut-out.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmasci View Post
Hey Sailor -- Thanks for the reply, and I did see that post originally, and I guess I should rephrase the question. What tupperware do I have to remove to get to that bolt? Is it on the right, left, or do I have to remove it all? Thanks!
JZEILER is the real master on this - not me as my K1200RS has different starter mounting bolts (no reverse). According to these 2 other threads (see below) if you are very patient, creative, you could tighten the bolt using a short ALLEN wrench after removing only the battery.

Otherwise, the bolt is normally tighten when the transmission comes out. Obviously many here have found creative way to avoid doing this just for that 1 single bolt. MAKE SURE TO TAKE NOTES and picture of all ground wires leading to (and around battery) before you remove it. You would not believe how many questions come up about not putting these back correctly ;-)

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...lickering.html

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...4-000-rpm.html

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K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
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post #8 of 27 Old Feb 8th, 2015, 3:14 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

No tupperware needs to come off but it helps to remove the battery. You will need a 5 mm Allen wrench cut short to fit into the bolt. Here are some better pictures. Hopefully they will guide you in. i don't have a good "on bike" photo. In the second one the red circle is the bolt in question and the blue circle is the attach point for a brown ground wire.
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post #9 of 27 Old Feb 8th, 2015, 9:54 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Sailor - JZeiler -- Thank you very much for the info. I just bought my 2000 K1200LT and after riding it all day on a gorgeous GA Saturday I was really loving my purchase, then the sun went down and I started seeing my lights flickering. I am glad this shouldn't be that difficult of a fix.
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post #10 of 27 Old Feb 9th, 2015, 3:43 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Remember this occurs usually above 3,000 rpm. I have seen HID and stock headlights flicker but it was caused by a bad ground at the headlight. If you are seeing the blue high beam indicator flicker when the low beam headlight flickers it is wiring not he bolt.
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post #11 of 27 Old Feb 21st, 2015, 4:10 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
No tupperware needs to come off but it helps to remove the battery. You will need a 5 mm Allen wrench cut short to fit into the bolt. Here are some better pictures. Hopefully they will guide you in. i don't have a good "on bike" photo. In the second one the red circle is the bolt in question and the blue circle is the attach point for a brown ground wire.
OK So I took the battery out and craned my head in to take a look. There is no bolt. I can see the starter, I can see that it's turned up a bit clockwise so the holes don't align. The hole on the starter is empty, so it didn't sheer off. Do you know the size of the bolt so I can get a replacement? Or if you just know of any that are the same size that are easy to get to so I can look for a replacement? Then hopefully with some luck I can get the thing in. I imagine if I got a long screwdriver I could at least line starter up by pushing down? Anyway any hints on this would be very appreciated.
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post #12 of 27 Old Feb 21st, 2015, 4:56 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Not the exact answer you are looking for, but a good parts fiche can be found at Max BMW's website -- www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com

You can quickly navigate through the parts catalog to find just the bolt you need. Or, in just a short time someone else will reply with the specifications for that bolt.

edit:
Here is their parts fiche for your model year K1200LT.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #13 of 27 Old Feb 21st, 2015, 9:26 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

On his other post I added it was an M6 x18. And yours is the first one we have seen actually missing. I imagine the torque of the starter would move it. You should be able to use a long screwdriver to line it back up. Be sure and tape the new bolt to a stick (I use some adhesive tape as it really grips) so you don't drop it down in the bowels.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #14 of 27 Old Feb 22nd, 2015, 8:41 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Thanks JZeiler and hschisler -- Ran out of weekend, will try to get this fixed when I can and update what happens.
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post #15 of 27 Old Nov 22nd, 2015, 9:00 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Forgive me for bringing this back from the dead yet again, but I had an issue yesterday where the headlight just flat didn't come on. I shut off the bike and turned the key backon, light flickered then came on, and stayed on. Shut off during start then came back on as usual.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mark

Edit: I need to point out that searching "headlight ground" brought me to this thread.

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post #16 of 27 Old Nov 22nd, 2015, 9:47 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark65 View Post
Forgive me for bringing this back from the dead yet again, but I had an issue yesterday where the headlight just flat didn't come on. I shut off the bike and turned the key backon, light flickered then came on, and stayed on. Shut off during start then came back on as usual.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mark

Edit: I need to point out that searching "headlight ground" brought me to this thread.
I would suspect a bad ground at the headlight socket. The "loose bolt" causes the load shed relay to "flicker" and it will do things like kick off the cruise control and any other "switched" loads. If it is only the light look there first.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #17 of 27 Old Nov 23rd, 2015, 3:13 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark65 View Post
Forgive me for bringing this back from the dead yet again, but I had an issue yesterday where the headlight just flat didn't come on. I shut off the bike and turned the key backon, light flickered then came on, and stayed on. Shut off during start then came back on as usual.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Mark

Edit: I need to point out that searching "headlight ground" brought me to this thread.
I had something similar on my '05. Not a grounding issue, but instead turned out to be a sloppy electrical connector on the low beam housing. Didn't have it's wire retaining clip so I had to make one out of safety wire. Pretty much fixed the problem except for an occasional instance where the light doesn't come on. I then reach up and touch the connector & the light is fine for quite a while. Wire retainer or not, it's a sloppy connector. At least the connector no longer falls off.

Bob
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post #18 of 27 Old Nov 23rd, 2015, 9:13 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

That makes perfect sense. Thank you. I'll check that out.


Mark

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post #19 of 27 Old May 30th, 2016, 6:10 am
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Greetings,

I have checked the following:

Bolt on starter motor tight, fitted a brand new load shedding relay, slight improvement , lights flash after 5000rpm.

Please could someone let me have a wiring diagram for the 2002 to 2004 K 1200 LT.

Work which was done was that the bike would not start. Pulled transmission out, stripped starter motor down and fitted aftermarket brushes. Refitted the transmission, bike starting but now the flickering headlight at 5000rpm.

Is it possible to bypass the earthing through the starter?

Your valuable assistance on the would be appreciated.
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post #20 of 27 Old May 30th, 2016, 1:39 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Sounds like you may have left a brown wire off the top of the transmission where that bolt is fitted. But yes you can bypass the loadshed relays ground through the starter. You just have to find the load shed relay and take the BLACK wire that goes to the starter relay and cut it. Then run the load shed side to a brown wire somewhere in the relay box.

I was going to post a diagram of the relays but the web site is not letting me post today for some reason.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #21 of 27 Old May 31st, 2016, 7:40 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Here is that diagram to ID the load shed relay. #3 That black wire will run in that harness from the load shed to the starter relay if you want to eliminate that functionality. But I would double check the two brown wire connection on top of the transmission first.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #22 of 27 Old Jun 3rd, 2016, 10:03 am
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Thanks for the help. I have just checked the 2 brown earth wires, both on and both very tight.

This bike is fitted with the blue load shed relay. Will the mod mentioned above work on that relay? Your advice is always appreciated.

Would you maybe have a wiring diagram for a 2003 model.
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post #23 of 27 Old Jun 3rd, 2016, 8:33 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyZA View Post
Thanks for the help. I have just checked the 2 brown earth wires, both on and both very tight.

This bike is fitted with the blue load shed relay. Will the mod mentioned above work on that relay? Your advice is always appreciated.

Would you maybe have a wiring diagram for a 2003 model.
The blue relay is the starter relay. The diagram I posted is for the older starter relay (#1) but the load shed relay did not change - still #3. I have diagrams for all BMW models from 1992 up to 2006.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #24 of 27 Old Jun 7th, 2016, 8:19 am
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

JZieler,

Please could let me have a diagram for a 2003 K1200LT, model not fitted with fuel vapor unit, so EU model.
What is the easiest way to send it, PM or Email or peer to peer?

Thanks, bypassed the load relay and problem solved. Now would like to sort out a side stand issue? Have checked the switch, that is fine but starts with side stand down, which it should not.

Regards
Eddie
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post #25 of 27 Old Jun 7th, 2016, 7:49 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

I would love to send you a diagram but they are on a BMW CD and they don't view well when extracted. You cannot blow them up to read wire numbers out side the canned program.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #26 of 27 Old Jun 24th, 2016, 4:44 am
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

I understand. I have those same DVD's for the R1200GS, F800 and S1000.
Can you maybe supply me info on the side stand. The switch works fine, however the wires it seems to go to the reverse module and from there I loose my way.
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post #27 of 27 Old Jun 24th, 2016, 3:11 pm
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Re: Diagnosis please - flickering lights over 4500 rpm's.

It really get tricky as the Reverse controller then sends that signal to the F-R switch which then routes it to the starter relay allowing it to work in the F position and not in the R position. The reverser also needs to know if the side stand is up or down. This is a very integrated bike, but I can assure you that the side stand switch will not cause the flickering lights as it has nothing to do with the load shed relay.
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2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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