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post #1 of 14 Old Aug 29th, 2008, 2:02 am Thread Starter
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Water 4 Gas

I've been reading about using water to produce HHO gas to burn in gasoline engines. Has anyone else looked into this or used it on their bike? I've heard of a man getting 71 MPG in a landrover. Could you Imangen getting 80 of better MPG from your LT?

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post #2 of 14 Old Aug 29th, 2008, 2:21 am
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Re: Water 4 Gas

I've seen these adds on Craigs List a few times and they always get flagged quickly. I'm fairly certain it BS. Care to tell us how it's supposed to work?

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post #3 of 14 Old Aug 29th, 2008, 2:38 am
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Re: Water 4 Gas

We had this discussion already a couple times. These HHO gas gizmo's are pure idiot tax. Plain and simple.

Maybe someone will jump in tomorrow and explain why. David? If not I will do that tomorrow when I am back awake. For now it will have to suffice that these gizmos are pure BS,
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post #4 of 14 Old Aug 29th, 2008, 7:01 am
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Re: Water 4 Gas

I did the kit thing on my truck; 4.6l F150. Not enough HHO gas to do what is advertised with the 1-liter container. With enough gas from the flask, the O2 sensors will, supposedly, detect a lean condition but can be tricked with a rheostat or another gizmo for each pre-cat sensor (another $150 bucks for 2). I got 1 mpg gain with the airconditioner OFF.

In retrospect, I could have bought 7-gallons of fuel and got the same gas mileage. To do it again, NO. Put a kit on the LT? No.

However, I did have the Rhine West chip installed a couple of weeks ago; picked up about 2-3 mpg. Routinely was getting 50-52 mpg; now more like 52-54 mpg. I'm not an aggressive rider or frequent twister of the throttle, though. With the extra tq, oh yeah, it's tempting to wear out the cables.

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post #5 of 14 Old Aug 29th, 2008, 7:28 am
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Re: Water 4 Gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
We had this discussion already a couple times. These HHO gas gizmo's are pure idiot tax. Plain and simple.

Maybe someone will jump in tomorrow and explain why. David? If not I will do that tomorrow when I am back awake. For now it will have to suffice that these gizmos are pure BS,
People have been trying to get this to work for decades. Google "Brown's Gas". There are welders on the market that use it. I used a small bench top "Water Welder" at General Electric in the 1960's. It used a hypodermic needle as a nozzle, for very small electrical work.

The big problem is that it takes more energy to break down water into oxygen and hydrogen than you can get from re-combining (burning) it. Since the energy is electricity, obtained from the alternator, driven by the engine, what little energy you get from burning the Brown's Gas (laughingly called HHO) is not enough to overcome the energy used from the alternator to produce it in the first place.

"Gains" people see are likely because of the fooling of the fuel systems by the different exhaust gas mixture. That has to be REAL good for modern engines!

Besides, the HHO is just two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen, NOT seperated, so anything that can produce even the tiniest spark in the gas producer can cause the mixture to burn back into water.

The amount of "HHO" produced by these units is a very tiny fraction of the intake air stream needed by a running engine.

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post #6 of 14 Old Aug 29th, 2008, 9:34 am
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Re: Water 4 Gas

I have a bridge in New York to sell you if your interested?

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post #7 of 14 Old Aug 29th, 2008, 10:12 am
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Re: Water 4 Gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by wacolt
However, I did have the Rhine West chip installed a couple of weeks ago; picked up about 2-3 mpg. Routinely was getting 50-52 mpg; now more like 52-54 mpg. I'm not an aggressive rider or frequent twister of the throttle, though. With the extra tq, oh yeah, it's tempting to wear out the cables.
Did you install it yourself? I am thinking about doing that too. Beside the mpg did you notice any other significant improvement? Performance, smoothness?
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post #8 of 14 Old Aug 30th, 2008, 8:05 pm
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Re: Water 4 Gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpac
Did you install it yourself? I am thinking about doing that too. Beside the mpg did you notice any other significant improvement? Performance, smoothness?
I took the bike to Rhine West in San Antonio and Hank did the install. 2-hours and he was done, including the test ride! They burn a new chip and give you the old one. Having watched, I'm sure I could have done it but was in the area for a class and am glad to have met Hank and Jim. They are a 1st class act!

Other significant improvements: a little less hot weather lag at low RPM; PERFORMANCE; PERFORMANCE; oh, and PERFORMANCE! Even though I'm not normally an aggressive rider, it is more responsive! Marketing shows 5-7 hp and tq boost.

IMHO, worth the money.

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post #9 of 14 Old Aug 31st, 2008, 8:11 am
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Re: Water 4 Gas

"Marty! Marty! We have to go back to the gas crisis of the 70's!"

Then, you couldn't get gas. Now, you just pay through the nose for it. Same "get super mileage" scams are showing up again, this time with new packaging.

C'mon, if gasoline engines could be set up to run on water, wouldn't we already be running on water?
Actually, the "Mythbusters" show busted this myth a while ago.

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post #10 of 14 Old Sep 2nd, 2008, 5:07 pm
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Re: Water 4 Gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymarks
I've been reading about using water to produce HHO gas to burn in gasoline engines. Has anyone else looked into this or used it on their bike? I've heard of a man getting 71 MPG in a landrover. Could you Imangen getting 80 of better MPG from your LT?

I have a 30 billion dollar bridge (closeout sale price) in NYC for sale. When your cashier's check clears, I will send you a free case. Offer good until last Thursday.
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post #11 of 14 Old Sep 2nd, 2008, 5:27 pm
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Re: Water 4 Gas

In the mid-50's my father was friends with Ernie Newhouse. He was selling water-injectors that you mounted on top of the carburator. Started from a box he kept under the bed. Made a fortune, and built his own business - Newhouse Automotive in Montebello CA. I wish I still had a copy of his advertising - a miracle device, cooler combustion, smoother operation, etc.

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post #12 of 14 Old Sep 2nd, 2008, 6:00 pm
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Re: Water 4 Gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillJustJerry
In the mid-50's my father was friends with Ernie Newhouse. He was selling water-injectors that you mounted on top of the carburator. Started from a box he kept under the bed. Made a fortune, and built his own business - Newhouse Automotive in Montebello CA. I wish I still had a copy of his advertising - a miracle device, cooler combustion, smoother operation, etc.
Water injection can work, IF properly controlled, used at the RIGHT times, etc.. Improper use can ruin an engine in pretty short order.

Water injection was used in WWII aircraft to gain some power, but the pilots/flight engineers had to be trained on it's proper use, otherwise they might not get home.

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post #13 of 14 Old Sep 2nd, 2008, 6:49 pm
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Re: Water 4 Gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Water injection can work, IF properly controlled, used at the RIGHT times, etc.. Improper use can ruin an engine in pretty short order.

Water injection was used in WWII aircraft to gain some power, but the pilots/flight engineers had to be trained on it's proper use, otherwise they might not get home.
Is this what ya'll are talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)

I guess if it really worked auto makers would have found an application for it long ago...

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post #14 of 14 Old Sep 2nd, 2008, 8:37 pm
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Re: Water 4 Gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Shred
Is this what ya'll are talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)

I guess if it really worked auto makers would have found an application for it long ago...
It does work, but I think this is the operative statement from the wiki:

"The extra weight and complexity added by a water injection system was considered worthwhile for military purposes, while it is usually not considered worthwhile for civil use"

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