Never again - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 1:37 pm Thread Starter
 
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Angry Never again

To all who love the BMW. Make sure that you have a full wallet when purchasing these machines. They have many good traits about them but many sinister traits installed by the manufactuer. BMW needs to step up to the plate and take responsibly for the junk they are putting on the road. All you have to do is read these post and see how many problems they actually have. There is a reason why only 3 to 4 percent of bikes on the road in the US are BMW. Number one is there ABS systems. What a joke. Change the brake fluid once a year and then have the dealers gouge you for the service. This is crazy. I now have to fork out 2200.00 for a new ABS that blew some 10 cent gasket because there are no parts available. Dealers words. Sounds like a scam to me. I want to take my money and ride into the sunset. Not spend it on service and down time. Speedometers being Off?? What decade are we in? I understand things happen but why does BMW not step up to the plate and repair there faults? Throttle cables turn so hard that the cruise will not stay engage? To me this is a design flaw. Should be fixed by the company. Will not happen with this machine. I am sure many of you will swear by your machine, but I am going back to a wing. I have had 6 over the last 20 years and have never had the problems I have had with this piece of junk that BMW wants to call the best machine on the road. I have had ABS on the wing and never had these problems. I am not having to change my brake fluid once a year. In fact I do not personal know of any other car or bike that you have to change the brake fluid on. Cars go for years without the thought of a fluid change. What is up with BMW. Like I said, a scam to get the service dollars. This is my first and last BMW for sure. Good luck guys. I will be happy on the wing no matter what anybody says about the machine. There track record with me is the best. I may have to give up a little comfort and smoothness on the road but at least I will not be robbed blind by BMW. For those who care, I own there flagship, 1200 LT. The LT stands for limited time. Limited time before it takes your wallet.
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post #2 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 1:52 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
There is a reason why only 3 to 4 percent of bikes on the road in the US are BMW.
I understood it was the lack of a delaer network interested in selling them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
Number one is there ABS systems. What a joke. Change the brake fluid once a year and then have the dealers gouge you for the service.
So invest a small amount of money in a service manual, a few tools, a little patience and do it yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
Speedometers being Off?? What decade are we in?
What other speedometers have you looked at? EVERY single vehicle I have been in is off by 10% positive. I believe this is a deliberate error because it MUST NOT READ SLOW BY LAW in the UK at least. Therefore they build in a safety margin. If it bothers you so much, use a GPS for an accurate read. Or ou could just add a mental correction factor like most do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
I am going back to a wing.
I think that's for the best pet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
In fact I do not personal know of any other car or bike that you have to change the brake fluid on. Cars go for years without the thought of a fluid change.
Au contraire. The brake fluid has to be replaced on ALL vehicles on a regular basis. This is because brake fluid is hydroscopic. If it is left too long you run the risk of losing your brakes altogether just when you need them most, or costly repairs because of corrosion in the braking system. All for a small amount of new brake fluid. Maybe this is why you have the failure, if you don't bother with essential maintenance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
The LT stands for limited time. Limited time before it takes your wallet.
Bless. All mechanical items will break. On a forum like this, you will tend to get many "complaint" posts. Those in the majority with no issues whatever, tend not to come on the forum and declare that to the world.

You get back on the Honda. You seem better suited to one.

Just pussin' through.
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post #3 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:04 pm
 
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
I am going back to a wing.
I'm so sorry to read your frustration, as a new LT owner I think I would be in the same boat you're on if I had all those issues. I hope they fix the problems you're having so you can reconsider. I for one absolutely love my LT and I don't post much for the simple reason that I'm absorbing everyone's knowledge here.

Even though the Gold Wing is a superb motorcycle I hope you don't make the wrong decision while being so angry.


Good Luck.

Johnny
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post #4 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:21 pm
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Re: Never again

I hate to hear how disappointed you are in the LT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
What a joke. Change the brake fluid once a year and then have the dealers gouge you for the service. This is crazy. I now have to fork out 2200.00 for a new ABS that blew some 10 cent gasket because there are no parts available. Dealers words. Sounds like a scam to me.
You don't say what year LT you have, but I take you're out of warranty.

Quote:
Speedometers being Off?? What decade are we in? I understand things happen but why does BMW not step up to the plate and repair there faults?
As far as I know all bike speedos are of. I know the new Concours14 is off, and I would assume many others are too.

Quote:
Throttle cables turn so hard that the cruise will not stay engage? To me this is a design flaw. Should be fixed by the company. Will not happen with this machine.
The FJRs had the same issue with a stiff throttle cable a few years back. I'm sure BMW would have fixed yours had you taken in.

Quote:
I am not having to change my brake fluid once a year. In fact I do not personal know of any other car or bike that you have to change the brake fluid on. Cars go for years without the thought of a fluid change. What is up with BMW.
As stated above, brake fluid is hydroscopic - it absorbs moisture from the air, and DOT4, which all bikes use, is particularly bad. More so than DOT3 used in cars. Flushing the brake system is easy to do and once a year is really not that often.

Enjoy your new Wing. They are really great bikes. Personally, I absolutely love my trouble free GT, and plan to keep riding it for many years.


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'99K1200LT - "Bertha" - gone, but not forgotten!
'86 Concours - "Horse with no name" (under reconstructive surgery)
'06 K1200GT - "Road Rocket"
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post #5 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:22 pm
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Re: Never again

You may be right. I'm pretty sure all manufacturers try to find ways to keep the customer coming back for service. If the manufacturer can't help the dealer stay in business, no dealer will take on the product.

Good luck with whatever you ride. You may be the wisest one here. Or maybe not... doesn't matter.
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post #6 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:24 pm
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Re: Never again

I got to thinking about what EJ said, and I believe he may be right. I paid just over $5,000 for my used LT, and have just over 5,000 miles on it. That's about $1,000 a mile! And now I find out I have to maintain the darned thing? What's up with that. I'm selling!!!
Come to think of if, I paid $18,000 for my HD, and have right at 16,000 miles on it. Thats OVER $1,000 a mile, and more maintainance?!? This is just BS!!!
I'm selling everything.
No, don't try to talk me out of it. I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.
There, that ought to teach those guys at BMW and HD.
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post #7 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:29 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt
I got to thinking about what EJ said, and I believe he may be right. I paid just over $5,000 for my used LT, and have just over 5,000 miles on it. That's about $1,000 a mile! And now I find out I have to maintain the darned thing? What's up with that. I'm selling!!!
Come to think of if, I paid $18,000 for my HD, and have right at 16,000 miles on it. Thats OVER $1,000 a mile, and more maintainance?!? This is just BS!!!
I'm selling everything.
No, don't try to talk me out of it. I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.
There, that ought to teach those guys at BMW and HD.
Well since you put it like that, I can see you have a point and will now sell mine to replace with a skateboard. Either that or a Goldwing, but I think I prefer the skateboard.

Just pussin' through.
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post #8 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:31 pm
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Re: Never again

Oh yes, forgot to point out that this is post number one from Mr Angry. Make of that what you will, but here's a hint.....

(You shoudn't feed one)

Just pussin' through.
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post #9 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:40 pm
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Re: Never again

Sounds like eeejaay1 bought a bike that was out of warranty and isn't planning to do his own service. I bought my bike out of warranty but I knew I would do the work myself or pay through the nose for it. My clutch went out 3 months later and I replaced it myself. I may never purchase another LT but I'm going to ride the wheels off this one for sure............

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post #10 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:41 pm
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Re: Never again

20 years divided by 6 wings = 1 every 3.33 years.

about the time a standard warranty runs out on most vehicles too.

Quohog

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post #11 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:42 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt
I got to thinking about what EJ said, and I believe he may be right. I paid just over $5,000 for my used LT, and have just over 5,000 miles on it. That's about $1,000 a mile! And now I find out I have to maintain the darned thing? What's up with that. I'm selling!!!
Come to think of if, I paid $18,000 for my HD, and have right at 16,000 miles on it. Thats OVER $1,000 a mile, and more maintainance?!? This is just BS!!!
I'm selling everything.
No, don't try to talk me out of it. I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.
There, that ought to teach those guys at BMW and HD.
dude, check your math.

Ted

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post #12 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:54 pm
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Re: Never again


Jack Homesley
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GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #13 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:55 pm
 
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
dude, check your math.
beat me to it......
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post #14 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:56 pm
 
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
dude, check your math.
Although Mr. fpmlt's math skills are poor ... his humor is right on point.
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post #15 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 2:57 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: Never again

You can all form your own opinions about brake fluid, makes that we ride, and whatever about speedometers but in my opinion the BMW has major issues. For the fellow that tells me to do it myself, I have in fact, for years. The issue is a gasket failed on my abs which means replacement. Thats crazy. If some of you are OK with that then you must have a fat wallet. I don't. I want a machine to ride. I am going by the track records that I have had with the wing and then the BMW. In all the wings that I have had, together the maintenance has not even come close to what this one BMW is as far as the cost. I am not arguing with any of you fellows, well maybe skateboard boy, but facts are BMW are not what the manunfacturer or the dealers are. The gentleman that argues with changing brake fluid. How many times have you changed brake fluid on your car with ABS? I have never had to. Point is you don't. I never have on my wings. Only on a BMW. You fellows ride what you want. That is not my beef. My problem is they put this stuff out there with no replacement parts and the dealers are programmed to say no parts are available. Any by the way, I have not had a car or bike where the speedo is 10 to 15 miles per hour off. Sounds like more excuses for a brand that has mega problems and the manufacturer ignores the very people that make or break them. Ncrider says it best. Ride what you want. See you on the road skateboard boy.....
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post #16 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:00 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
dude, check your math.

yeah, that.


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post #17 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:05 pm
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Re: Never again

EJ -

Make sure to disclose all these faults to any perspective new buyers of your LT.

Ahh - the words of Thomas Tusser still ring true.....

Ted

Camarillo, CA
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2007 R1200S - Black - Sold
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post #18 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:06 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
The gentleman that argues with changing brake fluid. How many times have you changed brake fluid on your car with ABS?
Lets see if we can enlighten you a little here...

The fact that you have never changed brake fluid, nor see any reason to is irrelevant to the science.

If you don't change the fluid on ANY vehicle, not just ABS equipped, moisture will be absorbed from the air. Now you may not see that as an issue, but here's what happens...

Under pressure, such as when using the brakes hard (like in an emergency stop) the moisture in the fluid turns to steam. Now steam is not brake fluid. The result is that you have no brakes. When accident investigation test them once you have been carried off, they find no fault, the steam is back to being moisture in the fluid.

This same moisture attacks the bores of the brake cylinders, pitting them. This leads to imperfect seals as the pitting destroys the rubbers. Use the brakes hard and the seals don't. Same result, no brakes, but at least some evidence left behind.

PLEASE, *whatever* vehicle you have, MAINTAIN the brakes. They are all that lies between you and your box.

Just pussin' through.
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post #19 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:11 pm
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Re: Never again

OK, I checked my math. Turns out I'm happy again. Cost WAY less than I thought. Hell, I might even make money on my next ride, Whew!!! I'm going for a ride. Bye Bye now....
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post #20 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:21 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlelectronics
--------------------------
Under pressure, such as when using the brakes hard (like in an emergency stop) the moisture in the fluid turns to steam. -----------------.
Pressure will not cause water to turn to steam, just the opposite. The higher the pressure, the greater the temperature needed to boil water.

The problem is when the caliper gets hot enough to boil the water in the fluid, causing a steam bubble in the caliper. That is compressable, so you lose braking power. Good brakes absolutely require that there are no compressable bubbles in the fluid, be it air, or steam.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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post #21 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:23 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Pressure will not cause water to turn to steam, just the opposite. The higher the pressure, the greater the temperature needed to boil water.

The problem is when the caliper gets hot enough to boil the water in the fluid, causing a steam bubble in the caliper. That is compressable, so you lose braking power. Good brakes absolutely require that there are no compressable bubbles in the fluid, be it air, or steam.
What he said!

I am still in pillock mode it seems!

Just pussin' through.
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post #22 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:28 pm
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Re: Never again

Ya know, Eeejaay1 has a point. You don't HAVE to change brake fluid every year. Just like you don't have to change oil regularly, or check you tire pressure, or change spark plugs, or change coolant...............

Remind me to NOT buy a used vehicle from him.


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'99K1200LT - "Bertha" - gone, but not forgotten!
'86 Concours - "Horse with no name" (under reconstructive surgery)
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post #23 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:34 pm
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Re: Never again

Dude, Ease up,

These are special machines and require a little maintenance.. Perhaps a little more babying than other bikes...

But, Ride her in the twisties. or have to do that straight on panic stop and you'll see why all this was necessary...The bike will save your ass where on another machine you might have died... I've been there. Rode my LT like a dirt bike over some railroad tracks in the wet in a slide. On a curve. She came right up.


That's too bad about your ABS pump. The brake maintenance is probably the most overlooked on these bikes..

There are several on this site who have undertaken repair of the pump themselves.. It's just a gasket.. You can probably get some gasket material and if you're carefull and go slowly you might make a gasket yourself.. Who knows.. Don't let what other people "tell" you stop you from trying to fix it yourself.. Hell, it's broken right now... Even if you just don't fix it. You've got normal brakes like 98 percent of the other bikes right ? Or did I miss something about this that makes your bike unrideable until fixed...

I didn't check to see if it's servo or not.. if it is i'm sorry.....

Hopefully not.. Look at Beemerboneyard and those kinds of places for another ABS pump... And change your damn fluid youself... Learn how to do it. Someone here I'll bet would show you how... Attend a tech session.

Get through this and things will be ok... You've got a special machine.

Anyone can ride a Honda.....And if that's what you want, I'm sure they're great bikes. I was looking at a triked Goldwing today the looked pretty freakin' sweet...


Good Luck. Sorry you're having issues.

John

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post #24 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:34 pm
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Re: Never again

you know ..


For a thread that started out a rant...and a poor one at that...I really feel like i learned some things here...thanks for the tips guys....i even got a laugh or two out of it..


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post #25 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:36 pm
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Re: Never again

1 wing every 3.33 not likely to ever have a problem.

what about trade in value depreciation.
Dealers love trade ins.

I wonder if 2200.00 was lost over 20 years for 6 wings

If you dont pay for Maint. money must be spent somewhere else!

Quohog

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post #26 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:37 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: Never again

Look dude. I don't need a lecture from you or anybody else. I have been working on these things for years. If you don't like what I have to say, then don't read it. If you want to know facts, the reason there are no dealers in the states is because of the bikes track record. Who in the hell wants to tackle a bike that has as many issues as these do. If your toes are sore right now its because the truth hurts. I am not here to argue. Am I mad? Yes. I paid good money for a bike that I knew was going to need some maintenance but not to the tune of 2200.00. And then find out that many riders of BMW's are having the same prob. This is not a coincedence. And to all, I did not get on here to offend anyone. I am sorry if I have. Many of you have helped just by some of your posting. That is very much appreciated. But for those of you who want to argue and throw in your snide comments, have at it. I am just stating what a lot of others are thinking. Maintenance on this bike is not the issue. Forking out 2200 for a gasket going bad is a manufactuers issue in my opinion. Where are the parts that these things require to keep them starting and stopping. And for the gentleman that would rather ride his skateboard then a wing, is there ABS on your board. If there is don't forget to change the fluid once a year. Thanks to all who posted with a thought or a concern.
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post #27 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 4:30 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
Look dude. I don't need a lecture from you or anybody else. I have been working on these things for years. If you don't like what I have to say, then don't read it. If you want to know facts, the reason there are no dealers in the states is because of the bikes track record. Who in the hell wants to tackle a bike that has as many issues as these do. If your toes are sore right now its because the truth hurts. I am not here to argue. Am I mad? Yes. I paid good money for a bike that I knew was going to need some maintenance but not to the tune of 2200.00. And then find out that many riders of BMW's are having the same prob. This is not a coincedence. And to all, I did not get on here to offend anyone. I am sorry if I have. Many of you have helped just by some of your posting. That is very much appreciated. But for those of you who want to argue and throw in your snide comments, have at it. I am just stating what a lot of others are thinking. Maintenance on this bike is not the issue. Forking out 2200 for a gasket going bad is a manufactuers issue in my opinion. Where are the parts that these things require to keep them starting and stopping. And for the gentleman that would rather ride his skateboard then a wing, is there ABS on your board. If there is don't forget to change the fluid once a year. Thanks to all who posted with a thought or a concern.
I just did a search and could not find any other posts about faulty Gaskets on the ABS ..Can other members enlighten me about the many riders that are having issues here....TIA


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post #28 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 5:56 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
To all who love the BMW. Make sure that you have a full wallet when purchasing these machines...
I agree with that.
I really love this bike, but quality is really not what it must be at this price range
We can NOT honestly shoot eejaay1 for saying that, as many of us here have said it at one time.

BMW are so expensives. It is not in any way justified

** sarcasm ON **
You need some piston seals ? No sir, you have to buy the complete pistons/seals kit. Yes that 3 times the price of other brands.
You need the latch of your topcase ? No sir, you have to buy the complete gold plated thing.
You broke you FD ? Sir we can't do nothing, that's going to be expensive...

** sarcasm OFF **

I changed the shocks. I changed the brake lines. I did the complete 12k maintenance. Now it's up for sale as I can no longer afford it

BUT, and that's the important part, I may be mad again and bought a 3rd one when I could. As it IS a great bike indeed...

BMW K1200LT '06 - SUZUKI V-STROM 650 '07
BMW K1200LT '99 (sold) - BMW R1150GS '02 (sold) - YAMAHA Roadliner '06 (sold) - BMW K1200LT '99 (sold) - BMW R1100RT (sold) - HONDA Shadow Aero (sold) - HONDA Shadow 125 (sold)
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post #29 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 6:04 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Good brakes absolutely require that there are no compressable bubbles in the fluid, be it air, or steam.
What you said! Years ago our car went to a garage for the annual road-worthiness test, what we call the MOT. I had replaced the front pads, the rear shoes and bled the brakes so I was astonished when I was told that they'd needed to bleed the brakes again to get it through.

The first time I had to stop from above a walking pace - from only about 40mph - my foot went straight to the floor. With my wife and two small daughters aboard I wasn't impressed. I managed to get home without hitting anything and bled the brakes. By the time I'd done the 20 miles to my in-laws I had to do it again.

As you can imagine, I went to the garage in an absolutely incandescent mood. The head mechanic refused to accept any responsibility because they'd used a new tool they'd invented themselves. He proudly told me they screwed a container to the reservoir, added brake fluid and then pushed the fluid around the system using a compressed air line.

I had to purge the system completely to fix it and it was amazing how much fluid i had to use to get every last bubble out.

Keith


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post #30 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 6:43 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodey
I just did a search and could not find any other posts about faulty Gaskets on the ABS ..Can other members enlighten me about the many riders that are having issues here....TIA
I purchased a 2005 LT and had it 2 years 4 months and put 57,000 miles on it. I did all my own service just as BMW required. I changed the motor oil and rear drive oil every 3,000 miles. Transmission every other time. The bike was will maintained. ABS brakes is about the only thing I did not have trouble with but the the fluid was flushed twice. The maintenance is a hassel even when you do it yourself. You soon get tired of doing that when you do a lot of riding. If I had not been retired I would not of had time. The following are the problems I had with it.

Radio replaced
Front fork seals leaked and replaced.
Transmission output shaft seal leaked and replaced.
Drilled weep hole for the slave cylinder.
Complete rear drive replaced
Gas Quick connects leaked and had to be replaced.
Complete instrument cluster went out and had to be replaced.

This is the reason I no longer own an LT and have a 2008 Gold Wing. My Gold Wing has just about 20,000 miles on it and has never been back to the dealer. Takes about ten minutes to change the motor oil and filter. No 12,000 mile checks, no brake flush, no valve check. Every two years you might change the air filter and spark plugs. Very few do that often. The only thing I have done is replaced the tires at 14,000 miles.

I loved to ride the LT but the Gold Wing is so much or comfortable to ride. The LT is a little better in the twists but not that much better. I enjoy riding the Gold Wing so much better because I don't worry about being stranded on the road. When I heard people carrying rear drives with them or having one boxed at home to ship out if they broke down is when I sold my LT.

Jerry Mathison
Woodbine, Iowa
2008 Gold Wing
2005 Ocean Blue (Sold)
BMWMOA #25294

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post #31 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 7:30 pm
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Re: Never again

Whaaaa, whaaaaa, whaaaaaa.

Brake fluid needs to be changed. Period. Read the maintenance manual on your cage. Don't want to do it? Fine, please don't tailgate me. Oh, and I don't know of ANY manufacturer (car, bike, whatever) that allows shop overhauls of ABS units. Replacement only. Maybe if you had changed your fluid...... oh, right, that doesn't have to be done on any vehicle. Check.

Ferrari cars must be a piece of crap, otherwise there'd be dealers on every corner.

Don't go away mad, just go away.

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post #32 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 8:09 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tat_n_Telle
Whaaaa, whaaaaa, whaaaaaa.

Brake fluid needs to be changed. Period. Read the maintenance manual on your cage. Don't want to do it? Fine, please don't tailgate me. Oh, and I don't know of ANY manufacturer (car, bike, whatever) that allows shop overhauls of ABS units. Replacement only. Maybe if you had changed your fluid...... oh, right, that doesn't have to be done on any vehicle. Check.

Ferrari cars must be a piece of crap, otherwise there'd be dealers on every corner.

Don't go away mad, just go away.
I have a 2000 Ford Explorer it has 47,000 miles on it. The Ford dealer that I purchased it from has always serviced it. They have flushed the antifreeze and transmission. I have asked several times about the brake fluid and they say it is fine.

Jerry Mathison
Woodbine, Iowa
2008 Gold Wing
2005 Ocean Blue (Sold)
BMWMOA #25294

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post #33 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 8:20 pm
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Re: Never again

Bigdaddymoney is that you?????????

John
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post #34 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 8:37 pm
 
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Re: Never again

I own 3 Honda motorcycles (one of which is a Goldwing) and a BMW GS. I joined this forum to learn more about the LT. I really like the Goldwing but have been considering changing to the LT.

Regarding brake fluid changes - I checked the maintenance schedule for all 3 of my Honda motorcyles - each one states to replace the brake fluid every 12,000 miles or 2 years which ever comes first.

I change my brake fluid every year for all of my motorcycles.

to say or imply that you don't have to change the fluid in a Goldwing is simply ignoring the recommended service intervals Honda has identifed for their product line.

I do all of my maintenance on all of my motorcycles - mainly because I enjoy it and also I believe that I actually provide more care in performing because I am not under any time constraints imposed on me by a mainenance manager.

Bottom line - if you perform the maintenance that is prescibed by the service intervals each brand of motorcycle has a number of tasks that have to be done. some are easier than other; it's your choice what you want to do and not do --- and at your own peril.

for automobiles I did a quick search of the internet and as you can see the majority of manufacturers are also recommending the brake fluid be changed:
"OEM BRAKE FLUID RECOMMENDATIONS

What do the auto makers say about fluid changes? General Motors and Chrysler do not mention brake fluid in their scheduled maintenance recommendations. A General Motors spokesman said Delco Supreme 11 DOT 3 brake fluid contains additives than many other brake fluids do not, so it is essentially a lifetime fluid. Starting in 1993, GM began using a new type of rubber brake hose with an EPM lining and outer jacketing that reduces moisture penetration by 50%. So GM does not consider fluid contamination to be a significant problem.

Ford, however, recently changed its position and now recommends fresh fluid every 36,000 miles or three years, and to replace the fluid each time the brake pads are changed.

Several import vehicle manufacturers also recommend brake fluid changes for preventive maintenance. In Europe, brake fluid changes are often recommended. BMW says the fluid should be changed every two years. Honda recommends a flush & fill every 25,000 to 30,000 miles. Subaru also recommends a 30,000 mile brake fluid change. Volkswagen recommends changing the fluid every two years, and clearly states this in their owners manuals.

If motorists would only follow this simple advice to change their brake fluid periodically, they could greatly reduce the risks associated with moisture-contaminated brake fluid. The could extend the life of their brake systems and likely save themselves a lot of money in the long run, especially if their vehicle is equipped with ABS (because ABS modulators are very expensive to replace!)."

source - http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm article - Why Change Brake Fluid


maybe you drive GM vehicles since you never change your auto brake fluid
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post #35 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 8:45 pm
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Re: Never again

In all honesty, I do understand ej's point. I took my HD out for a spin, about 360 miles, yesterday, and can say that I never gave a thought to it leaving me high and dry. In 16,000 miles, not a single problem. With the LT, it's a different story. I've been stuck with broken shift linkage, and the final drive and clutch are always in the back of my mind. Other side of that coin, is that while those thoughts are back there, it doesn't stop me from having some great rides. It easily keeps up with everything I travel with, and more comfortably than the others. It is simply an amazing piece of machinery. Will it fail me? Probably, especially the way I ride it. Does that discourage me? Sure, but it ain't gonna' stop me. The wife and I love it no end.
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post #36 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 8:50 pm
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Re: Never again

"To all who love the BMW. Make sure that you have a full wallet when purchasing these machines."

I happen to agree. If not for this forum and the ability to do all those FN repairs myself with non-OEM POS BMW parts (some of which I had to make) I would have to get rid of this really fun bike. It's still not cheap to keep on the rode but that wingthing in the twisties just isn't nearly as much fun.

EZ-RDR55
The opinions expressed herein are mine, and do not represent that of any other humanoid past, present or future on this or any other planet.

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post #37 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 9:22 pm
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Re: Never again

I never ride with the thought of a break down in the back of my mind. I've had 2 LT's. 7000 on this one. The first one had a final drive breakdown, under warranty. I noticed it shortly after leaving Charlotte and still rode it home to Eastern Carolina not knowing what was wrong. Had it towed back to them at BMW's cost- under warranty.

One reason I spend the money up front and buy new. I've rarely had luck with used cars, as well. Again, I buy new usually without worrying about how someone else treated it.

And I'm not made of money but I count the cost to ride and know what I like. I don't like Goldwings. No logical reason- I just don't. I don't like Harleys either, but that's because of all the "lifestyle image" and the marketing hype, and the feel of a cruiser... and I like to be a little different. I refuse to be a sheep in pirates clothes.
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post #38 of 71 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 10:34 pm
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Re: Never again

I don't think BMW motorcycles were ever aimed at the "blue collar " market
I am a skilled blue collar worker and had it not been for the information given up so freely at this site I would have a hard time keeping the LT in the family budget . Two years and 34K miles with no trips to the dealer . I will ride it into the ground and get a the next one .
The Honda parts man has had his way with me, $32 for one generator exhaust valve.

bob g
99LT
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post #39 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 2:00 am
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Re: Never again

For my 2 cents worth, I think once more what the OP is stating comes around to his lack of prepardness. From what I have read, and read between the lines, he bought a used vehicle (motorcycle, car, plane, etc. doesn't matter the type) without a warrenty and has to pay the price for it (lack of prepardness).

I've seen this type of rant many times before. On this forum. On the BMWST forum. On the MOA forum. And what it comes down to is simple...

You buy a used vehicle without a warrenty, then you should be prepared to pay out of pocket for any repairs!!!

Can't say it any simpler than that. When I bought my '06 LT (soon to be sold due to financial/medical resons) I bought an extended warrenty even though the factory warrenty is good until 8/09. I planned to have it a long time. I bought my '96 RT without a warrenty and not only planned to do any work myself, but have done the work myself to the tune of about $1500 ~ $2000 on it. Most of this work entailed bring it current (60K) maintainence wise and just because I wasn't 100% sure of its current state did all major/minor service requirements too. Then I replaced the brake lines with SS line and added various upgrades (Wilber shocks, HID lights, etc.) and farkles to make it perform/ride the way I wanted.

If a major failure occurs, I'll take that in stride too. When I buy a new/used R1200RT at the end of this year or early next and have a problem (which I might with the ESA, EWS, etc issues that have occured) I'll take that in stride too. I also never worry about what might happen (FD failures, EWS lockouts, etc.) when I go for a ride either. I just deal with the issues as they happen. If they happen.

2006 Magnesium Black Metallic K1200LT (sold - sigh)
1996 Sinus (aka Cirrus) Blue Metallic R1100RT
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post #40 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 3:16 am
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockdoc
As you can imagine, I went to the garage in an absolutely incandescent mood. The head mechanic refused to accept any responsibility because they'd used a new tool they'd invented themselves. He proudly told me they screwed a container to the reservoir, added brake fluid and then pushed the fluid around the system using a compressed air line.
You gotta be kidding! Something like in the states would be a law suit waiting to happen.
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post #41 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 3:26 am
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
You gotta be kidding! Something like in the states would be a law suit waiting to happen.
That tecnique with a few pounds of pressure is actually an accepted and good way to do it. Many dealers do it with professional equipment designed for the job. I have managed to clear airlocks that would not shift using the manual method.

The only disaster I had, on my little sports car, (for which parts are hard to come by) was to use too much pressure. The result was that the plastic reservoir split and blew the brake fluid everywhere. Instant panic to clean it up before it ate into the paintwork.

The unit I use has a coupling that you connect to the valve of a spare tyre, suitably deflated to reduce the pressure.

Here is the one I use
http://www.gunson.co.uk/item.aspx?item=1818&cat=674

Just pussin' through.
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post #42 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 3:34 am
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
To all who love the BMW. Make sure that you have a full wallet when purchasing these machines.
Or any other machine, for that matter.
Quote:
many sinister traits installed by the manufactuer.
Hehehehe, you make it sound as if BMW is sabbotaging their own products
Quote:
BMW needs to step up to the plate and take responsibly for the junk they are putting on the road. All you have to do is read these post and see how many problems they actually have.
Name me ONE car that has less "problems", we're not talking about one particular car, but EVERY model of that car, mose will have more problems.
Quote:
There is a reason why only 3 to 4 percent of bikes on the road in the US are BMW.
Sure is, its called a lack of dealers and higher prices, just like their autos.
Quote:
Number one is there ABS systems. What a joke. Change the brake fluid once a year and then have the dealers gouge you for the service. This is crazy.
It is called preventive maintenance..or periodic maintenance..EVERY vehicle has it. Take your car to the dealer and have the ABS system flushed. Dealers charge $100/hr..do the math.
Quote:
I now have to fork out 2200.00 for a new ABS that blew some 10 cent gasket because there are no parts available. Dealers words. Sounds like a scam to me.
Yep a scam! the dealers don't want you saving any money! Or maybe they aren't qualified to repair, test and recertify those units..naaa, its a scam.
Quote:
I want to take my money and ride into the sunset. Not spend it on service and down time.
Might I suggest a nice Honda 90?
Quote:
Speedometers being Off?? What decade are we in? I understand things happen but why does BMW not step up to the plate and repair there faults?
NO vehicle on the roAd has an accurate speedometer...its called "tolerance".
Quote:
Throttle cables turn so hard that the cruise will not stay engage? To me this is a design flaw. Should be fixed by the company.
And I'm sure you expect the car makers to fix a part that is out of warranty too, because, obviously it has a design flaw or it wouldn't break!
Quote:
but I am going back to a wing.
Buh-bye!
Quote:
I am not having to change my brake fluid once a year.
You'd better 'cause if you don't kill yourself, you'll void any warranty it has.
Quote:
In fact I do not personal know of any other car or bike that you have to change the brake fluid on. Cars go for years without the thought of a fluid change.
They ALL need fluid changes..and yes, cars go for years without a fluid change...2 years.
Quote:
This is my first and last BMW for sure. Good luck guys. I will be happy on the wing no matter what anybody says about the machine.
Good for you (and better for us)
Quote:
There track record with me is the best. I may have to give up a little comfort and smoothness on the road but at least I will not be robbed blind by BMW.
Nope, Honda will be robbing you now...have a nice life!

Wow, 3 whole posts...lets see...it lives under a bridge and charges a toll...hmmmmmmm...Oh! I know! A TROLL!
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post #43 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 3:44 am
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
You gotta be kidding! Something like in the states would be a law suit waiting to happen.
Not back in the late seventies! Nobody even dreamed of anything like that back then. I just didn't go back and made sure as many people as possible knew about it.

Keith


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post #44 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 3:49 am
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
Wow, 3 whole posts...lets see...it lives under a bridge and charges a toll...hmmmmmmm...Oh! I know! A TROLL!
That was my thought too. The evidence for me is that his first post is a rant. If it was so easy to find the forrum for a little venting, then surely he could have found it for help and advice beforehand? Even after the rant, he had lots of help, explanations and advice, including how to mend the ABS if he really wanted to, but he doesn't seem to want to know.

I also can't understand such a cavalier attitude about brakes. After all, he is welcome to kill himself, but to risk taking other people with him is unforgiveable. All for a little bottle of fluid, a service manual and half an hour's work. What does that add up to? Less than £50 ?

Just pussin' through.
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post #45 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 3:50 am
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlelectronics
That tecnique with a few pounds of pressure is actually an accepted and good way to do it.
Oh, the principle is sound enough but this was one they'd knocked together without understanding the potential hazards.

Keith


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post #46 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 6:54 am
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Re: Never again

OK, I will do you a massive favor. I will take the pile of junk off your hands for the scrap value you obviously think it is worth.
Sure the K12 goes wrong, so will any machine. Why? 'cos they are built by humans. Get over it.
I have had an armfull of problems, far more then average. You will find people on here who have never had a problem. Forums arer the worst way to judge a bit of machinery, the problems are the most talked about subject and misrepresent the reliability. Dispute the problems I have had, I will ride this bike for as long as my wallet will fund it. The bike has the best ride I have ever come across for what I do on two wheels and at the end of the day, that is what is most important.
Come on, what is more important? A smile on ya face or a few green bits of paper?

"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" Mark Twain


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post #47 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 7:04 am
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Re: Never again

You are dissatisfied; why don't you write to BMW?

Why come here, dis our bikes, and end up having people dis the wing? They are both good bikes and each person has their favorite. If you kept your favorite until the warranty ran out each time, and encountered zero problems, perhaps you are better off returning to your favorite.

What does the wing warranty cost anyway?

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post #48 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 7:06 am
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
Look dude. I don't need a lecture from you or anybody else. I have been working on these things for years. If you don't like what I have to say, then don't read it. If you want to know facts, the reason there are no dealers in the states is because of the bikes track record. Who in the hell wants to tackle a bike that has as many issues as these do. If your toes are sore right now its because the truth hurts. I am not here to argue. Am I mad? Yes. I paid good money for a bike that I knew was going to need some maintenance but not to the tune of 2200.00. And then find out that many riders of BMW's are having the same prob. This is not a coincedence. And to all, I did not get on here to offend anyone. I am sorry if I have. Many of you have helped just by some of your posting. That is very much appreciated. But for those of you who want to argue and throw in your snide comments, have at it. I am just stating what a lot of others are thinking. Maintenance on this bike is not the issue. Forking out 2200 for a gasket going bad is a manufactuers issue in my opinion. Where are the parts that these things require to keep them starting and stopping. And for the gentleman that would rather ride his skateboard then a wing, is there ABS on your board. If there is don't forget to change the fluid once a year. Thanks to all who posted with a thought or a concern.

Thank you for enlightening us and welcome aboard.
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post #49 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 8:06 am
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Re: Never again

All this proves is you should buy the aftermarket warranty if you purchase used. I rolled the dice and lost $350. He rolled and lost $2200. Sometimes when you buy used, you buy someone else's problems. The clutch is the only problem I've had so far and I could have avoided that by drilling the weep hole in the beginning. Buyer beware when it comes to used. No one has a crystal ball. We pays our money and we takes our chances........

2006 R1200RT
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue
2003 K1200LTE Black
Totaled Oct 2, 2010
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 2000
Most of us would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism.
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post #50 of 71 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 12:39 pm
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Re: Never again

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeejaay1
To all who love the BMW. Make sure that you have a full wallet when purchasing these machines. They have many good traits about them but many sinister traits installed by the manufactuer. BMW needs to step up to the plate and take responsibly for the junk they are putting on the road. All you have to do is read these post and see how many problems they actually have. There is a reason why only 3 to 4 percent of bikes on the road in the US are BMW. Number one is there ABS systems. What a joke. Change the brake fluid once a year and then have the dealers gouge you for the service. This is crazy. I now have to fork out 2200.00 for a new ABS that blew some 10 cent gasket because there are no parts available. Dealers words. Sounds like a scam to me. I want to take my money and ride into the sunset. Not spend it on service and down time. Speedometers being Off?? What decade are we in? I understand things happen but why does BMW not step up to the plate and repair there faults? Throttle cables turn so hard that the cruise will not stay engage? To me this is a design flaw. Should be fixed by the company. Will not happen with this machine. I am sure many of you will swear by your machine, but I am going back to a wing. I have had 6 over the last 20 years and have never had the problems I have had with this piece of junk that BMW wants to call the best machine on the road. I have had ABS on the wing and never had these problems. I am not having to change my brake fluid once a year. In fact I do not personal know of any other car or bike that you have to change the brake fluid on. Cars go for years without the thought of a fluid change. What is up with BMW. Like I said, a scam to get the service dollars. This is my first and last BMW for sure. Good luck guys. I will be happy on the wing no matter what anybody says about the machine. There track record with me is the best. I may have to give up a little comfort and smoothness on the road but at least I will not be robbed blind by BMW. For those who care, I own there flagship, 1200 LT. The LT stands for limited time. Limited time before it takes your wallet.
I agree service is expensive. Have decided must do most of it myself from now on. But to your point about the throttle cables being stiff. Just had mine replaced and it works smoothly and easily now. Love it.

Greg
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2000 k1200LT Basalt Grey (Roxie)
BMWMOA Number: 134717
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