Saddle upgrade for 2010 - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 17 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 2:24 pm Thread Starter
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Saddle upgrade for 2010

While there is still time why not remodel the saddle on the upcoming LT/10? Current stock saddles are just okay for most and I find it adequate for short rides, say under 200 miles. The problem I find is after several miles the padding starts to flatten out and when that happens your butt is riding on the pan which isn't exactly ergonomic. I know a lot of aftermarket manufactures of saddles use fancy foams and such but the same thing happens in time. So, in my opinion and hopes, the real solution is to contour the pan of the seat to an ergonomic shape then put in the padding. BMW could do it at the factory easily. Of course it would put some aftermarket guys out of business at least for LT's.

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post #2 of 17 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 7:46 pm
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

Personally, I would love to see a "seat delete" option so I don't have to pay for a crap seat I know I'm going to replace.

Life happens...you control your reaction.

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post #3 of 17 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 9:03 pm
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

The saddle is fine for me. Just because there are a few vocal opponents of the saddle doesn't mean everyone agrees it is crap. Build, height, weight, posture, movement while riding, how often you stop are all factors.

I've seen several posts where people have jumped on the "it sucks" bandwagon and went out and spent big $$$ and still aren't satisfied. So what's the solution for "everyone."
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post #4 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 12:41 am Thread Starter
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

First off, I didn't say the saddle sucked. I said it gets uncomfortable after about 200 miles for me. I know others have similar complaints. I've ridden several miles in a day on the saddle and you are right. Regular stops help ease the butt. Now, if you can point out a human that has a butt that conforms to the pan BMW currently builds their saddle on I'd like to meet them. BMW should at least start off with a generic, ergonimically correct seat pan. Of course it won't satisfy all but it would help most I am sure.

2002 R1150GS Adventure (current)
2000 K1200RS
1999 K1200LT (current)
1998 R1100RT
1985 Suzuki GS1150E
1985 Kawasaki Ninja 900
1983 Honda V65
1979 Yamaha XS1100
1977 Honda CB750
1963 Harley Duo Glide
1965 Honda 305
1962 Honda Cub 50
1960 Cushman scooter

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post #5 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 4:32 am
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

OK, I'll say it then. The stock saddle is crap. Better? The "comfort" seat on my 2007 was the worst saddle I've ever had on a bike. Even my crappy little '95 Shadow's stock saddle was more comfortable.

I agree with pickerbiker, there should be a seat delete option when ordering a new bike.

Heracleitus

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post #6 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 7:32 am
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

In 40 years of biking, I have never had a worse seat than the comfort seat on my 2005 LT. Based on my experience on this site and in general, most, but not all, BMW riders agree. I have come to accept it. Buy a Harley, you gotta do at least a Stage 1. Buy a BMW, you gotta buy an aftermarket seat.

I have said it before, The Germans have outsourced their seats to a French firm, The Marquis d' Sad corporation.

Ultra LT
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post #7 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 9:01 am
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

Didn't mean to come off negatively. I guess this just spraked a nerve as I've seen several posts where people complained; were told this other saddle, etc is better; they shell out the money for a custom saddle, only to find they still feel discomfort.

It's always felt fine for me and the wife. We usually stop every hour and a half, etc. I find this works well to keep fatigue factor/ dehydration down, too. And no, I'm not strapping A camelbak on or putting a cupholder on the bike.
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post #8 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 9:59 am
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

I think there is a long list of items that we would like to see on the next generation LT (or whatever they call it). There have been several posts on this, and doing something about the rider seat is generally near the top. Reality is that one of the things we generally like about the LT - the overall integrated design and flow - led to the inferior seat design. A "butt-shaped" seat would have simply broken up the lines of the bike. The Gold Wing is a perfect example of the opposite - function over form. The seat is wonderful, feels like your sitting in a recliner, and takes zero time to warm up to. You don't have to wear special clothes or cover your back end with powder to do eight hour rides the first day on one. But that seat comes on a bike that looks like it was designed by three different committees (that were never allowed to meet with each other), so the seat appearance in the overall scheme was not an issue.

The challenge for the next LT will be to develop a comfortable seat that works with the overall appearance of the bike. Hopefully this time they make an attempt at doing that.

Duane
Mag Black 2006 LT

Three loves - motorcycles, good wine, and contrabassoon...none of which mix. Engineer by day to pay for them all.
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post #9 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 10:35 am
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

I think its your ass, put on some weight! I weigh three spins on the scale, 50,000+ on the stock '05 comfort seat with little problems.

Doug
'05 K1200LT,
My dog is very selective where he will pee, yet he will poop anywhere. In that regard; we couldn’t be more different.
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post #10 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 11:39 am
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredjj
First off, I didn't say the saddle sucked. I said it gets uncomfortable after about 200 miles for me. I know others have similar complaints. I've ridden several miles in a day on the saddle and you are right. Regular stops help ease the butt. Now, if you can point out a human that has a butt that conforms to the pan BMW currently builds their saddle on I'd like to meet them. BMW should at least start off with a generic, ergonimically correct seat pan. Of course it won't satisfy all but it would help most I am sure.
Define an "ergonomically correct seat pan"...

Is it one of these?
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post #11 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 11:52 am
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

That would be a seat with EVERY individual seat pan designed to fit the individual "bum" of the person who purchases it. Butt, that would cost as much as the bike!

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
Too many others to list...


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post #12 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 11:59 am
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

"The Gold Wing is a perfect example of the opposite - function over form. The seat is wonderful, feels like your sitting in a recliner, and takes zero time to warm up to. You don't have to wear special clothes or cover your back end with powder to do eight hour rides the first day on one."

There are a lot of Gold Wing Riders that find the OEM Gold Wing seat pure hell - it is described by many as being too soft.

In the August issue of Wing World Magazine there are:

3 ads for aftermarket seat manufacturers (Corbin with a full page color ad, Diamond and Saddleman with 1/4 page color ads)

3 ads for back rests (Wing Master, Niehuas and Utopia)

2 ads for "pads" (Comfort Max, Blacksheep)


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post #13 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 12:20 pm
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
That would be a seat with EVERY individual seat pan designed to fit the individual "bum" of the person who purchases it. Butt, that would cost as much as the bike!
Innovate or die...

We've got a half dozen beta testers currently riding on medical grade impression foam. It's commonly used to design custom made orthopedic appliances and specialty casts. It's very similar in composition to the green florist foam we all use to mess around with when we were kids.

When you first get the seat you follow very specific instructions how to make it fit - Butt remember, you only get one chance to make a good impression.

Right now it doesn't look too encouraging since once "imprinted" you can't move around at all, it's kind of like you are "locked" in place. There might be a solution by having a thin viscous material on top, and we're looking at a 1/2" layer of polystyrene micro beads.

Yep, good old styrofoam!

Film at 11:00.


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Last edited by RonKMiller; Aug 22nd, 2008 at 12:31 pm.
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post #14 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 1:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Define an "ergonomically correct seat pan"...

Is it one of these?
Yes, it's one of those. Ron, you're in the business and much closer to the problem than most. ( a real ass man I've heard ) It sounds like your beta seat is addressing the ergonomic issue. Hope it works out. If BMW would just start out with a reasonably shaped pan I think that would be a start in the right direction.

2002 R1150GS Adventure (current)
2000 K1200RS
1999 K1200LT (current)
1998 R1100RT
1985 Suzuki GS1150E
1985 Kawasaki Ninja 900
1983 Honda V65
1979 Yamaha XS1100
1977 Honda CB750
1963 Harley Duo Glide
1965 Honda 305
1962 Honda Cub 50
1960 Cushman scooter

Was I being naughty...officer?
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post #15 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 3:51 pm
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredjj
Yes, it's one of those. Ron, you're in the business and much closer to the problem than most. ( a real ass man I've heard ) It sounds like your beta seat is addressing the ergonomic issue. Hope it works out. If BMW would just start out with a reasonably shaped pan I think that would be a start in the right direction.
Nah, not so much like Kramer, but more like a horse's ass! (or so I've been told...)

While we've got it nailed down pretty good with different layers and densities of visco, we're always looking for better ways to do things - and the real challenge is getting the BIG guys comfortable. Width is a partial solution, but unfortunately not the entire answer.

From simple physical issues like the size and width of the butt, to poor circulation and muscle tone, to old man butt (no muscles) its always a challenge to come up with a better mousetrap. Or would that be butttrap?

Since you're interested in aviation (I'm a Commercial Pilot) you'll appreciate the technology that goes into high quality visco foam - here's what we think is the BEST on the market:

http://earsc.com/HOME/products/Cushi...dex.asp?SID=49


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post #16 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 11:45 pm
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraLT
In 40 years of biking, I have never had a worse seat than the comfort seat on my 2005 LT.
Buy a GT. That will solve the problem. It's much worse than my LT seat.

The Touring Professor

2012 Victory Cross Country Tour
2007 Honda Gold Wing
2004 Honda Rune
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1996 Porsche 993 Turbo
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post #17 of 17 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 11:49 pm
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Re: Saddle upgrade for 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
"The Gold Wing is a perfect example of the opposite - function over form. The seat is wonderful, feels like your sitting in a recliner, and takes zero time to warm up to. You don't have to wear special clothes or cover your back end with powder to do eight hour rides the first day on one."

There are a lot of Gold Wing Riders that find the OEM Gold Wing seat pure hell - it is described by many as being too soft.

In the August issue of Wing World Magazine there are:

3 ads for aftermarket seat manufacturers (Corbin with a full page color ad, Diamond and Saddleman with 1/4 page color ads)

3 ads for back rests (Wing Master, Niehuas and Utopia)

2 ads for "pads" (Comfort Max, Blacksheep)

My Wing is the only bike in my garage with the stock seat, and the only one I can ride ong distances on in complete comfort. Everyone is different, and I know you make a great seat, but for a lot of Wing riders I know, the stocker is fine as is.

YMMV, probably does and eventually will.

The Touring Professor

2012 Victory Cross Country Tour
2007 Honda Gold Wing
2004 Honda Rune
1999 H-D Dyna-Glide Conv.
1996 Porsche 993 Turbo
1991 Acura NSX

Gone But Not Forgotten:

2006 K1200GT
2005 Triumph Rocket
2001 K1200LT
2002 K1200LT
2003 Hayabusa
2002 1800 VTX
1999 HD Sportster
1988 HD Softail Custom
1975 Yamaha 100cc
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