I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 9:37 am Thread Starter
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I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

I have had my 04 LT almost three years now and overall really like it but the SQUEAKY AND RATTLING brakes on these bikes are a JOKE!!! I know there is much info on here about them but I just have to vent. I have tried several different pads....the most recent being Carbonne Lorraines (sp?) which still squeak.....actually at times they almost "bark" just before coming to a complete stop. The riverts in my rear rotor must be very worn due to the excessive rattling going on back there so I am going to try the "siliconing of the rivets" that I read about on here to try and quiet that down. I have the old style rotor and as a last resort may change to the new style if no luck with the silicone and hopefully also get less brake squeal.

What brand of pads do you guys have the best luck with as far as quiet operation????

I have never had such a nice bike be so embarrasing to drive in stop and go traffic....lol.

Steve
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post #2 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 9:54 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Steve,
many of us have replaced the rear rotor with an EBC, and then put ebc pads on the back, stock on front or whatever else is available at the time. Some have had problems with the ebc rotor as far as rubbing on the side, you can eliminate that by geting another spacer for your wheel. If you dont want to get an ebc rotor, talk with your dealer about the new and improved rotor they have. Either one should eliminate the problems, just remember to blow the brake dust away every so often with a compressor. good luck.
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post #3 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 11:00 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

I replaced my back pads with the Bembro rubber back style. So my loud screaching noise was replaced by a load squealing noise. After reading the threads I tried painting the back of the pads with "Disk Quiet" and that solved my problem (bought it at O'Rielly's / $5.00). I've put a few hundred miles on them without any noise whatsoever.
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post #4 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 11:46 am Thread Starter
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXMO
I replaced my back pads with the Bembro rubber back style. So my loud screaching noise was replaced by a load squealing noise. After reading the threads I tried painting the back of the pads with "Disk Quiet" and that solved my problem (bought it at O'Rielly's / $5.00). I've put a few hundred miles on them without any noise whatsoever.
I have some at home so will definitely put this on the back of the pads when I do what I described above....hopefully this weekend.... THANKS........
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post #5 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 11:58 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

We were EMBARRASSED to be seen with the LT when we first got it due to the brake noise. The dealer replaced them with the EBC's, 5k miles later, no noise. Recommend the Paul Sayegh service dvds covering this issue.

Glad I did not attempt this myself. It need the tiny pin kit for $25, which I would not have thought to buy, before I would have attempted the job.
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post #6 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 12:14 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

There are a number of local BMW club members (LTer's) that I have ridden with and no one has had brake problems that I have heard.

I replaced the pads at last years CCR even thought they had many miles left after 28K.

No noise what so ever on either or current BMW OEM parts!


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post #7 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 12:57 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Brakes transfer motion to heat and noise. The squealing you hear is due in part to the pads vibrating ever so slightly in the calipers, which they have to in order to work. (No clearance = binding pads) Pad material composition can also contribute to noise.
Your loose rear rotor isn't helping. Some of the pad vibration will be transmitted to the rotor. I replaced mine with the EBC unit and EBC pads. Brakes are quiet and work very well.
"Disc Brake Quiet" (and products like it) have been around for years, and basically help prevent some of the movement of the pads against the caliper piston, without interfering with the clearances between the pad backing and the caliper body itself.
Just remember - all brakes make some noise. It's really just a question of how much noise you are comfortable with.

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post #8 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 1:35 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

"Just remember - all brakes make some noise. It's really just a question of how much noise you are comfortable with".....?????????

I have owned many and still own 3 HD's (from 1951 on up) that have never squeaked or squealed. I also do not hear 99.9% of any vehicle on the road sqealing away at every stop....lol....so....I dont quite buy that. I agree with the "physical dynamics" described in the previous post but most brakes are quiet.

The EBC rotors and pads mentioned by several..... Is EBC a material, design, supplier,????? Sorry for my "ignorance" but I have never had to replace major brake components on any of my vehicles with other than stock.

Thanks for all the comments so far.
Steve
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post #9 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 3:34 pm
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Question Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Wayne, are you talking about just replacing the rear brake pads here? If so, what "tiny pin kit" are you talking about? I have replaced multiple sets of rear pads for over 90K on my '00 LT and am still using the original pins and "tiny" keeper pins! There is no requirement to replace these unless they are lost or damaged.

Just curious,

John

Quote:
Originally Posted by yechave
We were EMBARRASSED to be seen with the LT when we first got it due to the brake noise. The dealer replaced them with the EBC's, 5k miles later, no noise. Recommend the Paul Sayegh service dvds covering this issue.

Glad I did not attempt this myself. It need the tiny pin kit for $25, which I would not have thought to buy, before I would have attempted the job.

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post #10 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 3:57 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Have your dealer look for the bulletin issued in March this year - 34 003 08 (013). If your rear rotor has 10 attachment points to the rear hub it is the old version - used on all bikes until mfg date Sept, 2007.

The new rotor, 34 21 7 711 093 has 5 attachment points. This design was the latest effort to abate the harmonics that can be generated in the rear rotor. The bulletin calls for the dealer to replace this item "in the event of a verified customer complaint". This is covered under the standard BMW warranty as long as the rotor is not worn below minimum thickness. The pads can be reused if they are not too worn and are not covered under warranty.

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post #11 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 7:01 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by loser
I have had my 04 LT almost three years now and overall really like it but the SQUEAKY AND RATTLING brakes on these bikes are a JOKE!!! I know there is much info on here about them but I just have to vent. I have tried several different pads....the most recent being Carbonne Lorraines (sp?) which still squeak.....actually at times they almost "bark" just before coming to a complete stop. The riverts in my rear rotor must be very worn due to the excessive rattling going on back there so I am going to try the "siliconing of the rivets" that I read about on here to try and quiet that down. I have the old style rotor and as a last resort may change to the new style if no luck with the silicone and hopefully also get less brake squeal.

What brand of pads do you guys have the best luck with as far as quiet operation????

I have never had such a nice bike be so embarrasing to drive in stop and go traffic....lol.

Steve
My 2007 never rattled, but it squealed like a stuck pig during stops from about 10 MPH to zero. As you say, very annoying in city traffic.

My dealer replaced the 10 bolt rotor with the new 5 bolt style for free under the TSB and the squeal is gone. The pads were not changed so it isn't the OEM pads causing the problem it is a resonance in the rotor due to its design. I have over 1500 miles on the new rotor and it is quiet as a mouse at all speeds while braking.

I'd try to get your dealer to replace it for free, but they may not on a bike of your vintage. I'd have paid for this rotor if I'd had to just to get rid of that noise!

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post #12 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 9:49 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Stop whining. Put the EBC rotor on and solve the problem. It costs a LOT less than the OEM. You can continue to use the stock pads.

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post #13 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 10:28 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

I don't know if my brakes squell, I just turn up the radio!!

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post #14 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 10:52 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

I just stopped using the rear brakes for the final roll to a stop. No squeal any more.

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post #15 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 11:02 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
I just stopped using the rear brakes for the final roll to a stop. No squeal any more.
Something I just learned was the brakes are "integral", this means it does not matter which brake lever you use both front and back pads are being applied. I don't know what year this started but looks like your bike is newer then mine.

Mike
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post #16 of 32 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 11:19 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

I believe integral brakes came out in 2002
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post #17 of 32 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 12:08 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

I have a 2002 LT that I bought used @ 24,xxx mi. & the rear brake rattled even then. Dealer said it was nature of the beast & wasn't dangerous unless it really got loose. squeal & rattle worsened till @ 48,xxx I was worried about safety. (& embarrassment from my riding buddies on their Gold Wings) I noticed @ that time the rear rotor had almost 1/4 inch slop in the radius runout. no lateral slop to speak of. I'd read threads on this site about the EBC brand rotors & decided on that route. Some had noted trouble with wheel rubbing the caliper after installing & one noted rotor runout so I wanted to check things before installing. When I got my new part in I mic'ed it & it was within a couple thousanths of an inch of the original in all the critical points. (center hole, hub offset, rotor offset, hub thickness, flange & so on) The only big difference was the rotor disk itself was several hundredths thinner than OEM which doesn't concern me much since it is still centered in the caliper. I also chucked it up in my lathe & checked it for any lateral or radial runout & it spun dead true. After satisfying myself against any potential problems I Installed it on the bike. I used the EBC brand organic pads along with the new rotor. I only have a few thousand miles on the bike since the swap but my squeal & rattle are gone. Stopping power didn't seem as good till the pads started to bed in, but now it seems the same. The work involved wasn't difficult but care needs to be taken when swapping the ABS ring from the old hub to the new one. I just went around & around it with a pry bar, moving it in tiny increments till it came off, & then tapped it back on the new hub with a plastic mallet in the same fashion. Sorry about the novel. Couldn't shut myself up.
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post #18 of 32 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 2:21 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

I bought my 02 two years ago and the rear brake squealed horribly. I beded them in like car brake mfg's say to do and I have been squeak free for a little over a year.
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post #19 of 32 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 2:34 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Sell it and by a 66 Honda with drum brakes. They don't squeal.

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post #20 of 32 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 8:21 am Thread Starter
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
Sell it and by a 66 Honda with drum brakes. They don't squeal.
I have a '51 and a '68 HD with drums that are dead quiet and suit me just fine.....Maybe I should try to fit them onto the LT.....lol.

From the posts so far it sounds like the rotor is the problem and is probably where I will focus my attack.....

Thanks,
Steve
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post #21 of 32 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 9:31 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

I install the EBC rotor on my LT, about 20,000 miles ago. Have never heard a peep out of it since.

I have used both EBC pads and standard BMW pads, nether caused any noise.

I have noticed the brake dust on my wheel build up faster, but that is what keeps the pads and rotor from squealing.

Holes in the rotor = no sound!
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post #22 of 32 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 10:42 am Thread Starter
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Where do you guys reccomend I look to purchase the "EBC" rotor????
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post #23 of 32 Old Aug 21st, 2008, 9:13 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

I found that I used to lightly feather the brakes to a stop and that caused squealing. Try actually grabbing the brakes once in a while during your ride to clear the brake dust- I'm not talking about activating the abs, just a nice good handful/ footful of brakes. It seems to have fixed it for me. I don't recall hearing any squeal in a while now. I have an 08 with the 10 point rotor and see no need to replace it. On my last K12 (2000 model), they had a new rotor, too... didn't completely fix it.

You may be using your brakes the way I did.
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post #24 of 32 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 1:00 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by loser
Where do you guys reccomend I look to purchase the "EBC" rotor????

I ordered mine from "www.cyclebrakes.net". $141.00 for the rotor, (Part #MD615) & $28.50 for organic pads. (Part #FA304).

Update on my swap: It was time for a new rear tire & it came in today. When I removed the wheel to change the tire I saw where the wheel was rubbing as other posts mentioned. I misread & thought they meant it was rubbing the caliper but it isn't. The inner part of the wheel that is close to the machined mating surface of the wheel is contacting the new rotor hub before the machined part mates up with the new hub. It's not what I call rubbing because it's not moving after the wheel is torqued down but it's not a good way for the wheel to be contacting the hub. Puts stress where it isn't supposed to be. I guess I'm going to have to get a thicker shim washer also.
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post #25 of 32 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 1:08 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

. . . And finally an LT probelm I have read about on ths forum I can honestly say I don't have. I bought the bike used but as far as i can tell the brake stuff is all original. I get a very slight squeak occasionally but that is it.
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post #26 of 32 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 8:29 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

For my two cents worth, the new replacement rotor worked wonders on my '06 LT. Personally, I'd recommend the OEM parts over any of the aftermarket ones, but that's just because I prefer to stick with the manufacturer parts and am (for a short time longer) still under factory warrenty.

What I have read about the aftermarket rotors and pads has never left me with a warm fuzzy feeling even if they are significantly less expensive. Then again, I've never understood the mentality behind pinching pennies maintaining or repairing an expensive vehicle (motorcycle, car, etc.) either.

Nor the complaints that occur when a failure occurs that is denied by BMW because the motorcycle is out of warrenty and not dealer maintained. I've always felt that if you want the manufacturer to stand behind his product, you need to use their service & parts. From what I have read about the times BMW has stood up to out of warrenty claims, they do to.

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post #27 of 32 Old Aug 22nd, 2008, 11:45 pm
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Smile Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Yes, pinching pennies on an expensive machine doesn't seem to make much sense. especially if it's still under warranty. - But - Pinching hundred dollar bills when you've never had a warranty, can't afford to pay the labor rates to have someone else to work on your machine, but proud as hell because you could swing the loan to buy a nice used machine & ride it. That makes sense.
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post #28 of 32 Old Aug 23rd, 2008, 12:02 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob't
But - Pinching hundred dollar bills when you've never had a warranty, can't afford to pay the labor rates to have someone else to work on your machine, but proud as hell because you could swing the loan to buy a nice used machine & ride it. That makes sense.
I can not only understand that statement, but can agree with it 100%. But only in conjunction with the understanding that if it is out of warrenty then the no bitching rule to the manufacturer/forums/friends should apply if something fails (like the FD) and the manufacturer decided not to pick up the repair bill.

Having said that, I don't think there is ever anything wrong with asking the manufacturer to help out. If they do, that's great! I just don't feel that one should feel that the manufacturer is obligated to pick up the tab for out of warrenty repairs. Regardless of how long someone expects the failed part should last. IMHO.

PS: I do all the work on my '96 RT. I do take pride in the fact that I can do the work as well in the savings. In fact, I actually enjoy wrenching on it as a hobby. Part of why I have a garage full of tools. It's different though when it is your only transportation and you are under a time crunch for the repair. That just adds so much stress to the situation it's not even funny.

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post #29 of 32 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 3:37 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurKnowles
But only in conjunction with the understanding that if it is out of warrenty then the no bitching rule to the manufacturer/forums/friends should apply if something fails (like the FD) and the manufacturer decided not to pick up the repair bill.
.
Yes, when you use aftermarket parts, you have to weigh the savings against any problems you might have with that part or it's affect on other systems involved. And you can't expect BMW to stand behind it unless they endorse the part. Just like this brake issue. Before you decide to go the aftermarket route it's a good idea to read past posts because there are pro's & cons. You have to be willing to deal with potential problems.

I decided that the con's were within the limits that I could tolerate for the cost savings involved. Plus, some of the posts had recurring rattle with the OEM part within 10K & that was my main gripe with the rear brake anyway.

On the other hand, I had one of the problems that some other posts mentioned with rubbing, but missed it because I misunderstood their description of it. I need to go re-read some of those old threads & see why I did that. I found & fixed that problem while I had the wheel off changing the tire. but it's one of those issues that a guy doing his own work with aftermarket parts has to take ownership of.

So far I'm still happy with the new brake. No rattles & no squeal. Now it just needs to stand the test of time.
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post #30 of 32 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 8:35 am
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob't
Yes, when you use aftermarket parts, you have to weigh the savings against any problems you might have with that part or it's affect on other systems involved. And you can't expect BMW to stand behind it unless they endorse the part. Just like this brake issue. Before you decide to go the aftermarket route it's a good idea to read past posts because there are pro's & cons. You have to be willing to deal with potential problems.

I decided that the con's were within the limits that I could tolerate for the cost savings involved. Plus, some of the posts had recurring rattle with the OEM part within 10K & that was my main gripe with the rear brake anyway.

On the other hand, I had one of the problems that some other posts mentioned with rubbing, but missed it because I misunderstood their description of it. I need to go re-read some of those old threads & see why I did that. I found & fixed that problem while I had the wheel off changing the tire. but it's one of those issues that a guy doing his own work with aftermarket parts has to take ownership of.

So far I'm still happy with the new brake. No rattles & no squeal. Now it just needs to stand the test of time.
I decided to go with the new style rotor from BMW as it was replaced at no charge to me. If I'd had to pay full list for it, I probably would have tried aftermarket first. But it is hard to beat free.

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1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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post #31 of 32 Old Aug 24th, 2008, 9:42 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

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I decided to go with the new style rotor from BMW as it was replaced at no charge to me. If I'd had to pay full list for it, I probably would have tried aftermarket first. But it is hard to beat free.
Is the new style rotor drilled/ventilated like the front rotors or still solid like the the old one. My front brakes never squeal. But then, I didn't have much trouble with squeal on the rear either. It was the constant rattle that drove me nuts. My rear brake would squeal a little at times with light brake pressure at low speeds. But if I would make a few fairly hard stops from higher speeds it would disappear for a day or two. It was never too bad anyway.
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post #32 of 32 Old Aug 25th, 2008, 5:15 pm
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Re: I CANT STAND THESE F'ing BRAKES ANY MORE!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Rob't
Is the new style rotor drilled/ventilated like the front rotors or still solid like the the old one. My front brakes never squeal. But then, I didn't have much trouble with squeal on the rear either. It was the constant rattle that drove me nuts. My rear brake would squeal a little at times with light brake pressure at low speeds. But if I would make a few fairly hard stops from higher speeds it would disappear for a day or two. It was never too bad anyway.
Solid like the original. Neither the original nor the replacement ever rattled.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

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