05 06 clutch cylinder oil leak - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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Old Dec 29th, 2005, 6:01 am Thread Starter
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Exclamation 05 06 clutch cylinder oil leak

It seems that everytime i go to my dealer ,( and i go there regularly ) , there is always a 05 or 06 LT with a clutch cylinder oil leak .

I own a 05 with no problems ,but i'm getting a bit worried with the rate of failures i've seen !

Has someone experienced this problem ?
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Old Dec 29th, 2005, 7:31 am
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No problems as yet .(11k)

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Old Dec 29th, 2005, 7:48 am
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Yes, at 37k, when I bought the bike second hand (99 model)from a dealer. Got it replaced under warranty (lucky me). It was the hydraulic piston by the clutch lever, that had a micro scratch lengthwise in it (the mechanic showed it to me). Not a clue how it got there.

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Old Dec 29th, 2005, 10:06 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppp
It seems that everytime i go to my dealer ,( and i go there regularly ) , there is always a 05 or 06 LT with a clutch cylinder oil leak .

I own a 05 with no problems ,but i'm getting a bit worried with the rate of failures i've seen !

Has someone experienced this problem ?
You mean this? Clutch contamination can be prevented by drilling a hole in the trans case. You drill just behind the trans case seal to slave cyl. Others have done this. I did a major overhaul 2 weeks ago, I will write up report with pics.
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Old Dec 29th, 2005, 10:02 pm
 
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?? PPP, what dealer do you go to and see so many bikes with bad clutch cylinders???
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 10:53 am
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05' cyl. leak

My 05' decided to go kaput at 5000 miles. Had a loaner bike for 3 days and had a new clutch plate and slave installed. they had one on the rack for the same thing when i picked up my bike. good luck.
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 11:04 am
 
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Not me, no sir!

Well, I am darn happy to report that my '05 is humming right along.
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 11:26 am
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I am really disappointed in the way BMW fails to address known problems! The failing clutch slave cylinders have been an Achilles heel on the bike since introduced in '99! You would think they would have jumped on a re-design as soon as warranty replacements started hitting the books. I don't think Honda would have suffered with replacements that long without doing something.

AND, a failing cylinder STILL takes out the clutch! BMW, you are STUPID to let something that well known continue to be a big problem.

ADDED: If I were to get a new LT, I would drill the drain hole in the tranny right away! My first clutch replacement on the 2000 LTwas at 400 miles! The second at 4,000 miles, the third at 8500 miles. You can see why I am so adamant about BMW's failure to address this rather simple device. At least they should add a drain so the cylinder failure does not automatically require a much more expensive clutch replacement.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 2:12 pm
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 7:46 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I am really disappointed in the way BMW fails to address known problems! The failing clutch slave cylinders have been an Achilles heel on the bike since introduced in '99! You would think they would have jumped on a re-design as soon as warranty replacements started hitting the books. I don't think Honda would have suffered with replacements that long without doing something.

AND, a failing cylinder STILL takes out the clutch! BMW, you are STUPID to let something that well known continue to be a big problem.

ADDED: If I were to get a new LT, I would drill the drain hole in the tranny right away! My first clutch replacement on the 2000 LTwas at 400 miles! The second at 4,000 miles, the third at 8500 miles. You can see why I am so adamant about BMW's failure to address this rather simple device. At least they should add a drain so the cylinder failure does not automatically require a much more expensive clutch replacement.
David,

I'm with you 100% on what you said. In fact I am going to host a NW tech session *JUST* for the clutch drilling to take place. We'll call it "Driller Thriller!"

The way I see it is-all I need is a good drill/bits and someone who KNOWS *where* to drill them puppies.

David I sure wish you lived near. If you feel the need for a little LT time, let me know. I just happen to have a spare LT around so we could go for a ride! (BRIBE-BRIBE!!)

Anyone who lives up in the Seattle-Bellevue, Great Northwest Area that knows how to do this operation...let me know and I will set it up.

I am real sick of buying new clutches.

Last edited by black1200lt; Dec 30th, 2005 at 7:54 pm.
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 8:02 pm
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Coni,

I'm planning on being in Portland for around two weeks in the middle of January. I'll be glad to come up and help out. I'll let you know as soon as the dates are set, but I'm sure I can swing a weekend visit up your way. Just don't be surprised if I show up in a rental car with too many wheels.

In the mean time, check out the pics in this thread.

Ken
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 8:23 pm
 
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Ken,
I saw one pix posted, that did not look like it was drilled *low* enough. Since you went with David and saw it straight from "The Man" I believe we have a tech session in the making.
We will move this to the NW board and get everyone's calendars synchronized and get it moving.
Thanks Ken!
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 8:58 pm
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The hole drilled wasn't at the absolute lowest part of the mount, but it was still well below the level that would allow fluid to seep into the clutch area and cause damage. It's a bit tricky to get in there without removing half of the bike, but a long drill bit and some prior knowledge will help out a lot.

I'm still up for importing David though, if you can talk him into it.

Ken
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'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 9:41 pm
 
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Hi:
Maybe a stupid question but would drilling an '05 be recommended?
I understand the weep hole idea but would warranty cover any contamination issues and would drilling prevent warranty coverage of the clutch system?
Ed
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 10:27 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edonthenet
Hi:
Maybe a stupid question but would drilling an '05 be recommended?
I understand the weep hole idea but would warranty cover any contamination issues and would drilling prevent warranty coverage of the clutch system?
Ed
If I were to buy an '05, I would drill it in a heartbeat. The area where the hole is drilled is so protected that it would be hard to get anything into it, unless you ran in water deep enough. Not likely. Come to think about, I think we did once. Coni, Jeff?

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David Shealey
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 10:32 pm
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I had to drill a little off center because we did Ken's bike with the crossmember still in place. You can see from the second picture how I had to lean the drill in between the catalytic converter and the step in the front of the crossmember. There is also a step in the tranny housing at the bottom of the clutch cylinder boss, and since I could not get the drill to the rear of the step and angle it forward as I did on mine, I had to drill to the left of the step and angle it to the right to get near the center.

The hole is definitely low enough though. Only about 1/32" of fluid could pool before draining out, about to the bottom of the black seal. It would have to get all the way up to the hole in the center of the shaft to transverse forward to the clutch.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 10:33 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I'm still up for importing David though, if you can talk him into it.
I would love to, but that is not very likely.

I would be glad to loan you the long drill though.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
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Old Dec 31st, 2005, 7:31 am
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Talking

I am real sick of buying new clutches.
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Coni
You mean these Puppies!
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Old Jan 1st, 2006, 11:55 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I had to drill a little off center because we did Ken's bike with the crossmember still in place. You can see from the second picture how I had to lean the drill in between the catalytic converter and the step in the front of the crossmember. There is also a step in the tranny housing at the bottom of the clutch cylinder boss, and since I could not get the drill to the rear of the step and angle it forward as I did on mine, I had to drill to the left of the step and angle it to the right to get near the center.

The hole is definitely low enough though. Only about 1/32" of fluid could pool before draining out, about to the bottom of the black seal. It would have to get all the way up to the hole in the center of the shaft to transverse forward to the clutch.
I drilled my drain at 6 o'clock, Would like to have been closer to the case. My drill bit was short, This was as close as the drill chuck would allow. If you look at the pic with the clutch slave one can see the fluid around the cylinder. So if drilled off center it should drain. Note if you do not use the center stand drilling off center will help drainage.
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Old Jan 1st, 2006, 1:53 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
I drilled my drain at 6 o'clock, Would like to have been closer to the case. My drill bit was short, This was as close as the drill chuck would allow. If you look at the pic with the clutch slave one can see the fluid around the cylinder. So if drilled off center it should drain. Note if you do not use the center stand drilling off center will help drainage.
We drilled all the way to the left in your first picture, where the rear of the tranny meets the most forward part of the protrusion. This gets the hole at the very front of the nose of the cylinder so that the cylinder does not partially close off access to the hole by leaking fluid. There is probably enough clearance between the cylinder nose and the bore of the tranny boss, but having the hole as far forward as possible, coming out close to the bearing will prevent that.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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Old Jan 1st, 2006, 3:03 pm
 
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where exesckly i need to drill the hole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
You mean this? Clutch contamination can be prevented by drilling a hole in the trans case. You drill just behind the trans case seal to slave cyl. Others have done this. I did a major overhaul 2 weeks ago, I will write up report with pics.
please explain me where do i need to drill the hole excatly if you can zeev B.R
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Old Jan 1st, 2006, 5:31 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zgmpl
please explain me where do i need to drill the hole excatly if you can zeev B.R
BR, You know what they say a picture is worth a thousand words. BTW fill in your profile, you will make alot of people happy. Note the leaky slave cyc. and the hole.
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Old Jan 1st, 2006, 8:15 pm
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Remember the hole doesn't have to be exactly at 6 o'clock. The bike moves and leans as you ride it, unlike a car. Also farther forward is better, but having any sort of hole there is far better than none at all.

When we do Ernie's bike, I'll make sure someone documents it well with pictures and detailed text. This should end up as a standard procedure stored here on this website. If we get a few sets of the tools made up as well, then this will become just another standard modification to be done during routine maintenance.

Ken
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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Old Jan 2nd, 2006, 6:38 am
 
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Jiminabqnm,
Would you be kind enough to email me at [email protected]
I will be bringing my LT out to NM next month and the ABQ delaer is the closest one to me in Las Cruces and I am interested in your experiences.
Thanks and ride safe,
Ron
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Old Jan 2nd, 2006, 8:55 am
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[QUOTE=meese]Remember the hole doesn't have to be exactly at 6 o'clock. The bike moves and leans as you ride it, unlike a car. Also farther forward is better, but having any sort of hole there is far better than none at all.


Ken, Let me clarify. The plan was to drill the hole at the 2mm gap between the rear case and end of slave cylinder. My drill bit was of standard length and the chuck system on my 90 degree drill limited ideal drill placement. If you look at the slave cylinder in the picture the hydraulic fluid collects around the cylinder, Front to back. Bottom line, There is no appreciable advantage to drilling closer to the case. So if you feel you need to drill the hole further anterior? You must have a extra long drill bit . Regarding the hole placement at 6 o'clock , yes there is a advantage. If you park your bike on the center stand the drain is more efficient. Furthermore you must remove the frame cross member for ideal access. Not a big job only 6 additional bolts plus shift linkage. When performing the job one only needs to consult the shop manual and look at the pictures currently supplied. Very straight forward procedure. Enjoy

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Old Jan 2nd, 2006, 11:59 am
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Have you measured the clearance between the nose of the slave cylinder and the bore? If it is very close there will be an advantage to having the drain in front of the cylinder nose, as it will let the fluid drain a little easier. I did not measure it myself. Not a BIG advantage, but I have drilled both mine and Ken's trying to get the hole as close to the bearing as possible.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
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Old Jan 2nd, 2006, 2:24 pm
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,
Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Have you measured the clearance between the nose of the slave cylinder and the bore? If it is very close there will be an advantage to having the drain in front of the cylinder nose, as it will let the fluid drain a little easier. I did not measure it myself. Not a BIG advantage, but I have drilled both mine and Ken's trying to get the hole as close to the bearing as possible.
Yes I did measure. The length of the bore is 1.352", The slave cylinder measured 1.260". For a difference of 0.092" or 2.3368 mm. So there is a small window. I felt trying to hunt down the extra long shaft drill bit was not worth the time or money. Conversely the longitudinal deposit of fluid on the bottom of the slave cylinder supported my decision to drill slightly posterior. As I withdrew the slave cylinder I was proactively inspecting for fluid.

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Old Jan 2nd, 2006, 2:26 pm
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Fair enough, Pete. But remember we're not trying to flush the area out. If anything, you'll get a bit of a drip as the seals slowly wear and fluid starts to seep out. David had a concern that the slave cylinder's outer bore may be close in size to its mounting hole, so the room for fluid to pass may be limited. That's why we went as far forward as reasonably possible. At this point, I don't remember how much clearance is there either.

Also, the real goal here is to avoid fluid building up in a trapped area. If the fluid gets high enough, it can travel down the clutch push rod and get onto the clutch itself. That would take a fair amount of fluid leakage, but this could eventually happen if a leak develops that you don't notice for many miles. So like I said, any hole down there is better than none at all.

We should be doing this job again in a couple of weeks, so I'll take lots of pics and document things well. I'd like to end up with a simple yet detailed procedure that others can use.

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Old Jan 2nd, 2006, 3:22 pm
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Actually, I meant, but did not explain correctly, the difference between the outside diameter of the cylinder nose and inside diameter of the bore. Wondering what that clearance is. Probably plenty, but if it was fairly close the film between the two may impede easy drainage.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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Old Jan 2nd, 2006, 6:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Actually, I meant, but did not explain correctly, the difference between the outside diameter of the cylinder nose and inside diameter of the bore. Wondering what that clearance is. Probably plenty, but if it was fairly close the film between the two may impede easy drainage.
I was also concerned with this clearance. The relationship of the slave cylinder to trans bore I found to be rather loose. In fact upon removal of my slave cylinder I found ample hydraulic fluid at the rear of the cylinder. Hopefully this indicates ease of fluid migration between the slave and casing. Good luck to all with this project.

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2014 RT
1973 R75/5
2002 LT 171 K Gone
2008 FJR 36 K Gone
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