How far can you lean?? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 6:49 pm Thread Starter
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How far can you lean??

I just got my first used LT a few weeks ago and getting used to the weight in city driving is a challenge but I'm getting the hang of it. I managed to drop it at the gas station. Touchy front brake brought it to a quick stop while I was attempting a very slow turn around the gas pumps. I knew it would happen eventually.

I've not been on a bike in over a decade and I get a little nervous on the turns. I'm getting over that but I keep wondering... how far will this baby lean on the turn before she lays down?

I've seen comments on other threads that she'll go over pretty far but I'm too much of a chicken to push it too much. I guess practice is the course of action to take but some input from the community would help me out.

Lastly, I'm sure you've all seen the guy popping the wheelie on the LT. He power slides that bike into his right turn. If both brakes are engaged when either is used, how do you get the bias enough to do that??? I don't want to pop wheelies. I do want to learn how to turn confidently in tight areas.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 6:56 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

How tight were you able to turn in your EMC class? Oh...

Stop waiting and take the class then you will find out for yourself and possibly learn info that could save your life. If it has been ten years since you have been on a bike you are going to be rusty at best. I had been riding for 35 years without a break, L.E.O. training and logging hundreds of thousands of miles, when I learned I had to take an EMC to be a Road Captain. I went thinking "What are THEY going to teach ME" but spent the entire day with my chin on the ground in shock at what I was learning to do with a bike.

Learn to crawl then walk and that will teach you all you need to run.

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post #3 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 7:17 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

IT is virtually impossible to get the LT to lean over far enough.
The thing would be better if it had another four inches of clearance without raising the ride height.

AttN Haters: I said four inches WITHOUT raising the ride height. Possibly if it were more narrow at the bottom.


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post #4 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 8:11 pm Thread Starter
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Re: How far can you lean??

I should state that I do know about countersteering and use that method. I am taking classes this week and hope to have more insight and valuable practice off the street to help build my confidence.
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post #5 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 8:24 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimZ
.....
I've not been on a bike in over a decade and I get a little nervous on the turns. I'm getting over that but I keep wondering... how far will this baby lean on the turn before she lays down?

I've seen comments on other threads that she'll go over pretty far but I'm too much of a chicken to push it too much. I guess practice is the course of action to take but some input from the community would help me out.
.....
Howdy Jim,

The good news with the LT is that it has many ways to communicate to the Rider where you're at in a lean:
- If your shocks are good and the pre-load set properly you'll feel your footpegs start to vibrate and then rise up.
- Lean over a bit more and you'll hear the center stand (even with the rubber stops cut to half their length) and feel the vibration of the scraping through the seat.
- A bit further and you'll hear a loud buzzing type scraping noise that is the lower fairing on the asphalt.

After that, if you keep leaning, then you're in territory I haven't explored

.
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Bill "Omaha"

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post #6 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 8:39 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

At a recent class on the track, I took the LT into new territory for me. I was very impressed at how solid and stable it is at extreme lean angles. I think the attached is the lap I ground the brake peddle a bit, but I learned in later laps that getting off the seat more allowed higher speed with less lean.

As others have said, take a class, have some fun!

-Scott
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post #7 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 9:15 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

This far (have audio on) when you've got a little speed up and have already taken out the centrestand edges.
..
A ride day at a track is great for even-ing out the peg wear on both sides.
..
and this is too far... courtesy of some sand on the road...

Chris
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post #8 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 10:24 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws
This far (have audio on) when you've got a little speed up and have already taken out the centrestand edges.
..
A ride day at a track is great for even-ing out the peg wear on both sides.
..
and this is too far... courtesy of some sand on the road...
Nice video. My brake lever is bent up like that and my shifter has some road rash on it. The fairing has holes. and my pegs are ground down. Thats as far as I'll lean on it. It would still go a bit further with the ME880 on the back. The Avon doesn't have quit the cornering angle as the 880. I quite leaning so far over because I'm afraid of tearing up the shifter. I wish I had some aftermarket shocks that raid it up 2 inches.

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post #9 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 10:44 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimZ
I just got my first used LT a few weeks ago and getting used to the weight in city driving is a challenge but I'm getting the hang of it. I managed to drop it at the gas station. Touchy front brake brought it to a quick stop while I was attempting a very slow turn around the gas pumps. I knew it would happen eventually.

I've not been on a bike in over a decade and I get a little nervous on the turns. I'm getting over that but I keep wondering... how far will this baby lean on the turn before she lays down?

I've seen comments on other threads that she'll go over pretty far but I'm too much of a chicken to push it too much. I guess practice is the course of action to take but some input from the community would help me out.

Lastly, I'm sure you've all seen the guy popping the wheelie on the LT. He power slides that bike into his right turn. If both brakes are engaged when either is used, how do you get the bias enough to do that??? I don't want to pop wheelies. I do want to learn how to turn confidently in tight areas.

Thanks.
One thing to learn when you're riding the big girl is to avoid using the front brake when traveling under 5 mph, especially in turns. It makes a world of difference in slow speed control.

Life happens...you control your reaction.

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post #10 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 10:47 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by scurrie
At a recent class on the track, I took the LT into new territory for me. I was very impressed at how solid and stable it is at extreme lean angles. I think the attached is the lap I ground the brake peddle a bit, but I learned in later laps that getting off the seat more allowed higher speed with less lean.

As others have said, take a class, have some fun!

-Scott
Scurrie...I remember you attending the class at Pacific Raceway. I was working corner #3....you were doing a nice job handling those twisties on the big girl!

Life happens...you control your reaction.

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post #11 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 11:23 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

Yup.

You will start scrapping plastic before you get into unsafe territory.

If you lower the pegs, you probably never hear the center stand or plastic scrape.

Bob

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post #12 of 29 Old Jul 14th, 2008, 11:59 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

My experience has been that I will first drag my one of the boots (toes) and then one of the pegs. I try not to go past the toe dragging as the peg drags have detrimental influence on the turn. It may just be my bad posture, but my toes do go first.

Fernando J. Rueda
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post #13 of 29 Old Jul 15th, 2008, 12:38 am
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by pickerbiker
Scurrie...I remember you attending the class at Pacific Raceway. I was working corner #3....you were doing a nice job handling those twisties on the big girl!
And loving every minute of it! Thanks for watching over us, it was a great class! I'll be back next year.

-Scott

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post #14 of 29 Old Jul 15th, 2008, 12:39 am
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimZ
I just got my first used LT a few weeks ago and getting used to the weight in city driving is a challenge but I'm getting the hang of it. I managed to drop it at the gas station. Touchy front brake brought it to a quick stop while I was attempting a very slow turn around the gas pumps. I knew it would happen eventually.

I've not been on a bike in over a decade and I get a little nervous on the turns. I'm getting over that but I keep wondering... how far will this baby lean on the turn before she lays down?

I've seen comments on other threads that she'll go over pretty far but I'm too much of a chicken to push it too much. I guess practice is the course of action to take but some input from the community would help me out.

Lastly, I'm sure you've all seen the guy popping the wheelie on the LT. He power slides that bike into his right turn. If both brakes are engaged when either is used, how do you get the bias enough to do that??? I don't want to pop wheelies. I do want to learn how to turn confidently in tight areas.

Thanks.
You should ride within your limits AT ALL TIMES. You will achieve a comfort level with the bike over time, but allow that time to occur. I also highly recommend you ge to he MSF Experienced Rider Course to help get your skills brushed up.

As for lean, I had the pegs dragging the ground regularly on all of my LTs (99, 02, 05) at speed trough corners. On my 99 LT I was able to drag the lower portions of the bottom fairings a few times as well, and once dragged the tip-over wing on the top of a 6 inch curb going through a corner, taking the pointy end of it off. I backed of a little to a slightly more sane pace on my other 2 LTs, but these are some indications of what the bike is capable of.

As for the LT popping a wheelie and sliding the tires around, it was a specially prepared bike as far as the brakes go for his stunt show.

David Taylor
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post #15 of 29 Old Jul 15th, 2008, 12:53 am
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimZ
I managed to drop it at the gas station. Touchy front brake brought it to a quick stop while I was attempting a very slow turn around the gas pumps. I knew it would happen eventually.
The brakes are linked, but at low speed the peddle favors the rear brake. Stay off the hand brake around the pumps, parking lot, etc. Most folks will tell you to keep the front wheel straight when you come to a stop, but if you use the brake peddle, you can stop with the bars turned and not drop it. I do it all the time.

Leave it in first when you turn off the engine, put the side stand down and let roll against the gears, then lean it over onto the stand (in fact, I kill the engine by putting the side stand down in first). Keeps it from rolling off the stand.

Practice practice practice.....

-Scott

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post #16 of 29 Old Jul 15th, 2008, 12:57 am
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Re: How far can you lean??

Like the others said, you will scrape lots of stuff before you lean too far. I have left quite a bit of metal and maybe a little plastic on corners without the bike even coming close to feeling unstable. I don't even worry about leaning too far anymore.

Steve Brooten
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post #17 of 29 Old Jul 15th, 2008, 7:02 am
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Re: How far can you lean??

Wow! CWS, you are some kinda thrill seeker driving on the wrong side of the road like that!!.........

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post #18 of 29 Old Jul 15th, 2008, 8:50 am
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
You should ride within your limits AT ALL TIMES.
There is a problem with that for me. My comfort level is a LOT different then my wife's comfort level. When I scrape, she pops me on the back of the head. The second time I scrape, she gets scared and gets tense. That throws everything out as far as handling.
Might be a long way to Utah.

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post #19 of 29 Old Jul 15th, 2008, 1:47 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyOmaha
Howdy Jim,

The good news with the LT is that it has many ways to communicate to the Rider where you're at in a lean:
- If your shocks are good and the pre-load set properly you'll feel your footpegs start to vibrate and then rise up.
- Lean over a bit more and you'll hear the center stand (even with the rubber stops cut to half their length) and feel the vibration of the scraping through the seat.
- A bit further and you'll hear a loud buzzing type scraping noise that is the lower fairing on the asphalt.

After that, if you keep leaning, then you're in territory I haven't explored

.
...then a bit further and you take the front tire all the way to the edge and get rid of the wobbly bits on the 020's.

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post #20 of 29 Old Jul 15th, 2008, 4:48 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

The bike will go over to the point to scraping driver pegs, center stand, brake or shifter lever, front plastic, passenger pegs and at the max will scrape the tip over plastic.

I once went into a turn to fast and took it to 10 tenths of it lean and it handled great. The biggest thing was to ride it out. I very rarely scrape today and hope to never do what I did the one time.

As for scrapping the passenger pegs, my wife didn't like it when I did that. I still have scares from that one.

Lean will not be an issue with this bike. Learning to drive it smartly can be. Have a good one.

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post #21 of 29 Old Jul 16th, 2008, 5:52 am
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Re: How far can you lean??

How about lean on wet roads? What's the limit there? Did not like the way my Metz worked in the rain last weekend. Have about 4K on them.

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post #22 of 29 Old Jul 16th, 2008, 6:56 am
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Re: How far can you lean??

I suggest riding the speed limit on wet roads.

The LT with any tires is not a sportbike.
Mine slips and slides with all tires when it rains.
On wet pavement is no time to be trying any agressive lean angles.
This goes for frigid conditions as well.

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post #23 of 29 Old Jul 16th, 2008, 7:31 am
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Re: How far can you lean??

As it says below, "things that have never ......."

My concern on leaning or even riding a little too fast in a curve is the unexpected. Guess I'm timid, but I have been surprised a few times growing up and learning to ride in the mountains of WV and was lucky. Lots easier to slide on 4 wheels than two and the outcome is generally better. This bike will lean till you hear grinding plastic, but if you come upon sand, dirt, wet spots, 4X4's or other assorted trash ( I have) you'd better be ready for the pucker factor. Riding blind will occasionally wake you up real quickly!

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post #24 of 29 Old Jul 31st, 2008, 10:41 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

not to be a party pooper.... but if ya wanna lean, maybe you should get a bike more suited for it.....and if you're grinding your bike away one mm at a time, perhaps you should check the clearence before you buy. do they teach that in the safe riders course?
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post #25 of 29 Old Aug 1st, 2008, 7:45 am
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by izzi_n_ami
not to be a party pooper.... but if ya wanna lean, maybe you should get a bike more suited for it.....and if you're grinding your bike away one mm at a time, perhaps you should check the clearence before you buy. do they teach that in the safe riders course?
If you don't enjoy riding and pushing the bike a little, then try a Goldwing, I hear they are good touring bikes...and really enjoy Cracker Barrel parking lots. It's all in fun and what you feel comfortable doing.

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post #26 of 29 Old Aug 1st, 2008, 2:36 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

I had a GW following me on the Gap today.

I let him feel superior for a few turns... Then I dialed it up.
I never saw him again.

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post #27 of 29 Old Aug 1st, 2008, 3:22 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by izzi_n_ami
not to be a party pooper.... but if ya wanna lean, maybe you should get a bike more suited for it.....and if you're grinding your bike away one mm at a time, perhaps you should check the clearence before you buy. do they teach that in the safe riders course?
Howdy Izzi,

I'm not sure if you were referring to my post, but the line connecting responses is connected to my post so I'll reply.

I do agree with you that it is better to have another bike better suited to the high speed cornering stuff. As you can see in sig line, I've done that with the addition of the K-R and will confess that my general pace set on the LT in the mountains has come down a bit. Usually peg scrapes only now and not all the time.

My original post was in response to a question from a forum member about how far the LT can lean. Sharing the knowledge is important, the essence of what this forum is about.....most of the time.

Lastly, for those with a certain disposition (not sure what to call it) knowledge of the physical limits of the machinery being used, in this case the LT, is important to them. With that understanding a rider can use more of the bikes potential when situations require......even if most the time it's used is only in "spirited" practice in preparation.

PS: I don't recall any mention of lean angle during MSF Basic except for a comment by the instructor about witnessing a student who was a moto-cop on his personal LT during a an experienced course scrape his pannier during a high speed turn drill. The instructor thought sure he was going to low-side, but the rider and the bike made the high speed turn just fine.

The reason I bring this up is that my personal belief about single vehicle, motorcycle, accidents is that many of them are situations in which the rider failed to ask the bike to make the turn. Too many believe they are entering a corner too fast and instead of braking as hard as possible and then getting off the brakes and pushing the bike over to make the turn, ignoring "hard part" scraping, they simply stand the bike up, hit the brakes and go straight off the road without even asking the bike to make the turn.

.

Bill "Omaha"

"Life may have begun at 44, but it didn't get thrilling until I shot past 100"

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post #28 of 29 Old Aug 1st, 2008, 5:38 pm
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Re: How far can you lean??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyOmaha
H
The reason I bring this up is that my personal belief about single vehicle, motorcycle, accidents is that many of the are situations in which the rider failed to ask the bike to make the turn. Too many believe they are entering a corner too fast and instead of braking as hard as possible and then getting off the brakes and pushing the bike over to make the turn, ignoring "hard part" scrapping, they simply stand the bike up, hit the brakes and go straight off the road without even asking the bike to make the turn.

.
Here is a perfect example of what you are talking about. Straight as an arrow, right off the edge! Click Here
Ken

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ChasnRacin is offline  
post #29 of 29 Old Aug 1st, 2008, 7:37 pm
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Murphy, NC, USA
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Re: How far can you lean??

I remember that, it was a good video...
The guy easily had it, if only HD riders knew what that front right lever is used for.

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_ Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but always enough time to do it over?
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