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post #1 of 29 Old Jul 7th, 2008, 1:40 pm Thread Starter
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Angry Rear brake blocked ?!?

Well, my first LT was a keeper. I sold it. Dumb me. This LT I have now seems not so cool.

I'm having Öhlins issues and now this. I was coming back from work today as I noticed a strange feeling of the bike. It appears the rear brake is blocked . Fortunate me it happens just in front of the garage.

The disc and the caliper were really hot, not red. I feel the screws of the caliper are kinda blocked too. I was not successfull in loosing those. I need to buy an allen bit to loosen it.

Can anyone tell me what's happening ?

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post #2 of 29 Old Jul 7th, 2008, 2:34 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

It's a 99LT? I don't think that's servo-assisted, could your brake lever be stuck? Can u spin the back tire when it's on the center stand?

Hmm...maybe a build up of pressure in the brake-fluid reservoir?
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post #3 of 29 Old Jul 7th, 2008, 3:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

99' it is. Lever does not seems blocked. Tire can hardly move on center stand.
I'll dismount the caliper tomorrow to see if I can push back the pads and see what happens...

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post #4 of 29 Old Jul 7th, 2008, 4:13 pm
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Question Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy
99' it is. Lever does not seems blocked. Tire can hardly move on center stand.
I'll dismount the caliper tomorrow to see if I can push back the pads and see what happens...
Is the tire rubbing on the swing arm by any chance?

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post #5 of 29 Old Jul 7th, 2008, 5:09 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Bonjour Frenchy,


I've just had to do a similar job on my late 2000 LT. Rear wheel would not turn very easy.

Put lots of WD40 on the two Hex bolts and into the caliper, and then removed it.

Pulled the pads, and cleaned the exposed pistons and kept spraying with WD40. after some time I was able to push the pistons back in, and once I had all 4 back, I put a block of wood into the caliper so i could operate the brake without the pistons coming out to far. kept working very slow and it is now running free.

I'm going to get the fluids replaced very soon, and will keep a close eye on the rear brake. It has been suggested here that it may lock up again, so I'll be checking the brake for high temps and making sure the wheel spins easy.

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post #6 of 29 Old Jul 8th, 2008, 4:04 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Well, I had all the caliper and pads out tonight. The pistons are fine and they are free to move. I was able to push all the four with hands only.
I bleed the whole thing with my Mytivac. Put the whole thing back together and... still blocked.

The pedal placed the pads in contact. they push, they push but they don't retract at all when pedal is released.

Is it master cylinder related now ???

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post #7 of 29 Old Jul 8th, 2008, 5:35 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Had a similar issue myself after installing a peg lowering kit and had fooled with the MASTER CYLINDER input shaft adjustment and foot lever height.
If you look under the bikes RIGHT SIDE peg mount you will see the adjustable vertical link attaching the foot lever to the master cylinder. There should be a small amount of free travel foot lever moves before compression on the master cylinder shaft happens.
( If you adjust the foot pedal height with stop screw ? ... you need to readjust the input shaft of Master cylinder so it has some free play in it. )
Unless the master cylinders input shaft is fully retracted with brake petal against the stop you will have pressure within the rear brake circuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy
Well, I had all the caliper and pads out tonight. The pistons are fine and they are free to move. I was able to push all the four with hands only.
I bleed the whole thing with my Mytivac. Put the whole thing back together and... still blocked.

The pedal placed the pads in contact. they push, they push but they don't retract at all when pedal is released.

Is it master cylinder related now ???

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post #8 of 29 Old Jul 10th, 2008, 2:32 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

I checked for several days now. Each time after some hours, the wheel is free to move. When I push on the pedal, it blocks again.
I tried to open a bleeding screw a little, it frees immediately.

Definitely a pressure problem. I guess I'm in for a master cylinder...

Anyone seen it ? Pressure applying but not retracting ?

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post #9 of 29 Old Jul 10th, 2008, 2:38 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy
I checked for several days now. Each time after some hours, the wheel is free to move. When I push on the pedal, it blocks again.
I tried to open a bleeding screw a little, it frees immediately.

Definitely a pressure problem. I guess I'm in for a master cylinder...

Anyone seen it ? Pressure applying but not retracting ?
Did you EVEN check the linkage at master cylinder ?

You French

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post #10 of 29 Old Jul 10th, 2008, 4:16 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy
I checked for several days now. Each time after some hours, the wheel is free to move. When I push on the pedal, it blocks again.
I tried to open a bleeding screw a little, it frees immediately.

Definitely a pressure problem. I guess I'm in for a master cylinder...

Anyone seen it ? Pressure applying but not retracting ?


Having the same issue as we speak..My break line poped also.... Still dealing wiht it.
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post #11 of 29 Old Jul 12th, 2008, 3:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead
Did you EVEN check the linkage at master cylinder ?

You French
Yeeeees I did , nothing found this way.

I open the master cylinder completely and I was suprised to see the simplicity of the thing. I discovered nothing and to be honnest I don't really know how it can be defect. There is just a spring and seals.

I flushed the front, the rear even the central. Nothing changed... I tricked the pistons and it seems this may be JUST a stucked piston. I don't understand as I was able to push all four back with bare hands. Hardly for some but I thought that it would not be stucked if I can move it with hand.

I planned to change the seals and see what happens. I'll keep results posted.

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post #12 of 29 Old Jul 13th, 2008, 10:50 am
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

I'm a bit new to the LT, but I would take a look at the rubber brake line that feeds the caliper. I have had a few of those go bad. The fluid would push through under pressure of the master cylinder but have a blockage that would not allow the fluid to go back to the reservoir when the brake is released. The syptom for that is the brake will finally free up and the wheel will turn after a period of time, may an hour or more.

Just my $1.00 on this (02 with inflation)

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post #13 of 29 Old Jul 18th, 2008, 11:39 am Thread Starter
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What's wrong with those stealers ?!?

Bought a repair kit for my rear caliper tonight. Asked for 2 seals for the banjo bolt as I will have to disconnect the hose...

Kit was nothing more than 85€... Yes that's about $120. Do you believe he dare to charge me the 2 seals for .10€

OK maybe they paid it. Maybe that's cost reduction. Whatever it is... it's just not friendly at all !!!


I'll keep updated as soons as I change these (cross my fingers)

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post #14 of 29 Old Jul 18th, 2008, 2:12 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

I have an 05 and don't know if the brakes are the same. I had a problem with rear brake after an improper installation of the metal retainers (don't know what else to call them) that rest on the brake pads. If they are put in wrong they will not allow the pads to move out once they are in. Had to simply remove calliper and get the spring thing in the right place (again a technical term)

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post #15 of 29 Old Jul 19th, 2008, 12:17 pm Thread Starter
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... still nothing...

I crossed my fingers but that didn't helped much...

As I was dismounting the pistons and seals of the caliper, I said to myself : "That sure doesn't looks like bad seals"

Repair kit is paid and I can't expect a refund from someone that charges me two seals for .10€ so I change the whole thing.

Same thing happens. I have pressure on this bloody system and I don't know why. When brakes applies the wheel is stuck from some time !

Is it time now for a master cylinder ?

Damn...

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post #16 of 29 Old Jul 19th, 2008, 12:17 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsr
I have an 05 and don't know if the brakes are the same. I had a problem with rear brake after an improper installation of the metal retainers (don't know what else to call them) that rest on the brake pads. If they are put in wrong they will not allow the pads to move out once they are in. Had to simply remove calliper and get the spring thing in the right place (again a technical term)
I had hope on this. Unfortunately that wasn't the deal...
Thanks anyway

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post #17 of 29 Old Jul 19th, 2008, 1:14 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood614
I'm a bit new to the LT, but I would take a look at the rubber brake line that feeds the caliper.
Hi Wood614,
Thanks for the input. Could you explain why this could happen, I'm not sure I understand

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post #18 of 29 Old Jul 19th, 2008, 3:08 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy
Hi Wood614,
Thanks for the input. Could you explain why this could happen, I'm not sure I understand
They can rot inside and form a valve in the center that will allow fluid to go in one direction only. I have had this happen on several old MG's.

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post #19 of 29 Old Jul 21st, 2008, 8:04 am Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Eureka !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood614
I'm a bit new to the LT, but I would take a look at the rubber brake line that feeds the caliper. I have had a few of those go bad.
CONGRATULATIONS !!!
We have a semi-WINNER !


I cut the hose in all it's length. I saw some little places where the inside rubber was bad. Those very little pieces has detached and were filling the "needle" that is part of the join and that goes inside the hose (not sure that is clear to anyone but me... )

Now is the time to choose :

1 oem hose for about $70
or
complete spiegler kit for $230

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post #20 of 29 Old Jul 21st, 2008, 12:23 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Hi Frenchy.

I replaced all the hoses in my '99LT with the Speigler ones this spring. The original front hose from handlebar down to the fork has a fairly sharp bend in it under the fairing and mine felt pretty soft when I replaced it.

I've read some have had leaks in that area so with the age of the bike you might want to replace everything while you are at it. I think of it as good insurance and I won't have to worry about the hoses again for the life of the bike.

Good luck.

Joe

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post #21 of 29 Old Jul 21st, 2008, 2:53 pm
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Re: Eureka !!!

If one hose is in that shape you know the others are probably including the clutch line.

It is not my money or bike, but if it was, all would be done. Along with a big brake and clutch flush, and cleaning of the calipers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy
CONGRATULATIONS !!!
We have a semi-WINNER !


I cut the hose in all it's length. I saw some little places where the inside rubber was bas. Those very little pieces has detached and were filling the "needle" that is part of the join and that goes inside the hose (not sure that is clear to anyone but me... )

Now is the time to choose :

1 oem hose for about $70
or
complete spiegler kit for $230

Lee
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post #22 of 29 Old Jul 21st, 2008, 11:55 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

The rubber brake line can start to weaken inside the line. Little pieces of rubber or whatever flexible material tear loose but not totally break off. When you apply pressure to the brake, the fluid will pass through these areas as normal. When you release the brake the fluid tries to return to the master cylinder ad these loose pieces can act as a check valve and block the fluid and in turn keeps the brakes pads against the rotor. The symptom you describe, that after a time the brakes will loosen up and the wheel will again turn is the clue to the brake line deterioration issue.

To further test this, apply the brake and make sure the wheel is again locked after you release the brake pedal. Then open the brake bleeder valve on the caliper, if fluid comes out and the wheel frees up, it is most likely the flexible brake line. Take the line off at the caliper and the end that connects to the master cylinder. Try to low air through the line from both ends, I suspect you will find the end that is fed from the master cylinder will pass air, and the end that connects to the caliper will not pass air readily. If so, replace the brake line. I really don't think it is a master cylinder problem.

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1988 K100LT
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post #23 of 29 Old Jul 22nd, 2008, 12:01 am
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Ya know if I would have gone farther on down the page and read the other replies about Frenchy's question I could have saved some typing. It mus be Mad Cow disease setting in.
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post #24 of 29 Old Jul 22nd, 2008, 12:08 am
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

I personally do not like Spiegler lines and will no longer recommend them. It's not that they do not work, as they do. But installing them can be a pain in the A$$. The adjuster they provide doesn't work, so you can't adjust the banjo fititng with it. I've always had to use a small adjustable wrench and a pair of pliers to hold th ebase. They almost always do not include instructions.

So, for the same prioce you can buy Melvins at your dealer. Or Galphers. They all cost about the same. But it's your choice as to which ones to buy.

But I definitely recommend replacing them all.

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post #25 of 29 Old Jul 22nd, 2008, 3:58 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood614
Try to blow air through the line from both ends, I suspect you will find the end that is fed from the master cylinder will pass air, and the end that connects to the caliper will not pass air readily
Totally right
I wasn't suspecting blowing air (with my mouth) could be so difficult.

That's a good thing learn

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post #26 of 29 Old Jul 22nd, 2008, 4:01 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurKnowles
I personally do not like Spiegler lines and will no longer recommend them.
Argh, you're too late.
I just ordered the kit from DanKyle.
With the currency rate, the kit will cost me about 160€ delivered. That's not even 50% of oem hoses so I'm fine.

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post #27 of 29 Old Jul 22nd, 2008, 10:35 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Good luck with the Spieglers. Others have installed them, so I'm sure you can too.

FWIW, my lcoal dealer also stopped using them and moved on to Melvins for the LT. They didn't have them for the RT (no special junction box for the front brakes) so we went with Spieglers. Just never again for me.

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post #28 of 29 Old Aug 5th, 2008, 1:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

Thanks to an interesting exchange rate, spiegler kit is now installed and working.

Problem is solved.

As I've red somewhere else, I'm not sure I will recommend the brand myself. Angles are sometimes incorrect and that does not ease the installation. The adjustable thing worked though.

Thanks to everyone for the precious advice.

Help was greatly appreciated

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post #29 of 29 Old Aug 5th, 2008, 6:08 pm
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Re: Rear brake blocked ?!?

I put Galfers on my ZX-12R as well as their wave rotor on the rear (can't afford the fronts) and I can't speak highly enough of them.

From the people who sell them to the quality of the fit and finish, these are top notch.

I haven't done the LT yet, but if/when I do, I'll try Galfer first.

The difference on my ZX-12R in terms of the lever and pedal is night and day. The originals felt firm but had some give. The Galfers feel like steel rods are connecting the lever and pedal to the caliper. One finger can bring the bike to a grinding halt from 80mph.

As usual, I have no affiliation to Galfer or any other motorcycle product, but my wallet does. It doesn't pass a motorcycle store without stopping in to say hi.

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