LT Oil Filter assessment - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:48 pm Thread Starter
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LT Oil Filter assessment

Being an engineer, I have to analyze how well things are made and one item is oil filters. I have cut open several in the past and can be seen at Bobistheoilguy http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=000723#000000 and http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=6;t=000890.

Since I have a new LT on order I got a LT filter from the dealer ($22 Can - wow. these are not inexpensive!!) and dissected it today. Hopefully I can attach some photos in the following posts.
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post #2 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:51 pm Thread Starter
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The end cap has 6 inlet holes at 0.250" diameter for a total flow area of 0.29 sq in.

The can thickness is 0.017", which is relatively thick compared to most filers.
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post #3 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:52 pm Thread Starter
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Nitrile rubber sealing ring crimped in cover. Not as well secured as some filters.
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post #4 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:52 pm Thread Starter
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Top view of filter cartridge in can
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post #5 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:53 pm Thread Starter
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Spring in bottom of filter that compresses filter cartridge against the cover.
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post #6 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:54 pm Thread Starter
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Cartridge has metal-to-metal seal against the cover. Normally a rubber anti drainback valve is installed here and the cartridge would seal against the rubber, however this filter does not have one.
The metal-to-metal seal is thus not as effective and may allow some minor bypass flow if the alignment is not perfect.
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post #7 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:54 pm Thread Starter
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Filter cartridge is 2.2” long and 2.8” in overall diameter.

There are a total of 71 pleats, which is a large number and thus a large filter area for a filter of this size.
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post #8 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:55 pm Thread Starter
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Rubber bypass valve in bottom of cartridge
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post #9 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:56 pm Thread Starter
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View in the top of the cartridge showing part of the black plastic bypass filter assembly.
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post #10 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:57 pm Thread Starter
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Inner support tube. Large number of holes for good oil flow.

The filter media is well bonded (glued) to the metal end caps.
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post #11 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:58 pm Thread Starter
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Fine mesh filter to provide some oil filtering when bypass valve opens. Very few oil filters have this feature and it is very beneficial because it does provide some oil filtration when the bypass valve opens (eg on startups with cold oil)
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post #12 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:59 pm Thread Starter
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Filter cartridge cross section

Each pleat is 0.5” deep
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post #13 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 7:59 pm Thread Starter
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Top of inner screen is well supported by glue. This prevents screen collapse under high delta P conditions.
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post #14 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 8:00 pm Thread Starter
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Bypass valve assembly after mesh filter removed.
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post #15 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 8:01 pm Thread Starter
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The bypass valve is a rubber sealing disk 0.120” thick. The rubber provides a very good positive seal.

Spring compressed height is 0.7” and has a relatively large force of 12 lbs at that height.

Diameter of bypass hole is 0.587” (0.27 sq in)
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post #16 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 8:02 pm Thread Starter
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Close-up of media. It is 0.015” thick. It appears to be cellulose as opposed to better media that is composed of deep synthetic type material.

Total media surface area is 82” long by 1.65” wide = 153 sq in which is a very large filtering area.
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post #17 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 8:06 pm Thread Starter
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So what do I think overall compared to other filters I've cut open??

It appears to be a very high quality filter and the overall construction is probably comparable to some of the best filters in the industry. The only question is the filter media.If it is a cellulose media, then it will likely let larger micron sized particles through compared to a deep sythnetic media.

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post #18 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 10:30 pm
 
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LT Oil Filter

One would think that a high performance motorcycle would have zero oil filter question marks, particularly the sealing of the element to the can, and the plastic pressure relief valve. Also, the torque spec and the 'suggestion' (about 1/2 turn) is an isssue. Which is it BMW?
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post #19 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 11:28 pm
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internal rust?

Say, RealWing... is that rust on the internal components? isn't that on the "clean" side of the filtration? Bummer.

I wonder how this would compare to "other" manufacturers?

I think this is one for the "Hall of Wisdom"... I can't find this detail there.. or I just missed it!

Thanks for the effort!

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #20 of 45 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 11:55 pm
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Sorry to take this thread off on a slight tangent, but killing time 'till Santa appears.

It maybe a great filter, but your comment about the bypass valve raises a couple of questions: what pressure does the valve open? and under what conditions does this occur? In the cold, how cold? High RPM's, how high? Viscosity a factor? Don't have my manual handy, but doesn't it call out a special interval if the bike is operated below 32f?

Maybe we should be changing the oil every 3K (you all can fill in twice as often as you do) if it's bypassing the filter for any lenght of time.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all good oil changes.

Motor On ,/'


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post #21 of 45 Old Dec 25th, 2005, 1:39 am
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[QUOTE=($22 Can - wow. these are not inexpensive!!) .[/QUOTE]

Check around, you can find the filters for much cheaper than that

Paul S.
..........................
Producer of the K1200LT Service Videos
Maker of the HD Lugage Rack kit

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post #22 of 45 Old Dec 25th, 2005, 3:10 am
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I though the same thing, but then noticed he's from Canada. Nice write up though. Very thorough.

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post #23 of 45 Old Dec 25th, 2005, 1:02 pm Thread Starter
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Answers to some posted questions/comments.
1. There is no rust on any internal parts. Must be just the way the pictures turned out (I didnt use flash)
2. The relief valve is rubber and not plastic.
3. The conditions for opening the bypass relief valve are many and depends upon things like, filter restriction, oil viscocity and oil flow rate. They typically open at a few psi differential pressure to ensure that the engine still gets sufficient oil and to protect the filter from collapsing internally. ( I actually had an Amsoil filter collapse internally due to a poor internal design combined with starting in -40 temperature)

Question for LT owners: has anyone used non-BMW filters in their LT? If so, which ones? (I saw one post in FAQ about a K&N filter) What was your experience?

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post #24 of 45 Old Dec 25th, 2005, 1:28 pm
 
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Very interesting, thanks. I wonder if the K&N Filter ($15) is that much different. If anything cheaper.

KN-163 Product Specifications
Product Style: Oil Filters
Height: 3.543 in (90 mm)
Outside Diameter: 3.043 in (77 mm)
Anti Drain Back Valve: No
Weight: 0.8 lb (0.3 kg)
Product Box Length: 3.25 in (83 mm)
Product Box Width: 3.25 in (83 mm)
Product Box Height: 4.25 in (108 mm)
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post #25 of 45 Old Dec 25th, 2005, 2:27 pm
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I changed to Champion filter about 4000 km ago. Experiences? So far the engine has not blown up. (On the other hand - the bike is sitting in my garage in 2000 pieces...) I hope the filter holds till spring comes...;-)


Regards

Ari "the Farkle-Freak-Finn" Ignatius

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2004 ('05) LT, Dark Graphite, "Sunset Cruiser II"

Bike trip from Finland to USA:

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post #26 of 45 Old Dec 25th, 2005, 3:23 pm
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In the aviation world, we would rip open used oil filters and unfold the filter elements all the time. Just lookin' for any engine parts that may have come-a loose. Never found nothin' serious.

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post #27 of 45 Old Dec 25th, 2005, 3:24 pm
 
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Very interesting post. Thank you for your efforts. Thank goodness we have lots of engineers on this site who make hobbies of this kind of stuff. Wouldn't it be nice if the filter manufacturers posted this information on their boxes and could make a filter that was easy to expose the element so you could see what the filter was filtering out?
Here is an interesting view http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html.

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post #28 of 45 Old Dec 25th, 2005, 3:38 pm
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I've used the ****** filters for the last 6 oil changes and they've done me just fine.

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post #29 of 45 Old Dec 25th, 2005, 9:57 pm Thread Starter
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What is p/n of Amsoil filter for a LT?

In regards to the aviation practice of cutting open oil filters to look for any suspicious bits - I also do that on all my vehicles. I've also started having the oil analyzed to look for any signs of potential problems. I plan on doing that with the engine, tranny and rear differential on my LT. I'll post the results here in the spring along with any comments.

My son has just started motorcycle racing (Suzuki SV650) in Canadian national series and we did oil analysis at every oil change. It was good that we did, because we saw a significant viscocity drop (Amsoil 10W40 synthetic) and switched to more frequent changes.

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post #30 of 45 Old Dec 25th, 2005, 10:44 pm
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Do I see the start of the first oil thread for the new year?
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post #31 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 8:04 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealWing
Steve_R

What is p/n of Amsoil filter for a LT?
SMF122

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post #32 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 8:18 am
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No, the last one of this year.

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post #33 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 10:10 am
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Thanks for all the info. The only other consideration I had that stopped
me from looking for an alternative oil filter was the exterior finish.

Being that it operates in an oil bath I would be concerned if any other filters
painted surfaces etc., should break down it would now be in the oil.

I think I paid about $13 with the o ring and crush washer at the dealer.

You can also get them for about $9 for 1 or about $7.50 each if you buy 6
at beemer boneyard. Plus a few $$'s for shipping.

http://www.beemerboneyard.com/newparts.html

I'm glad you found it to be such a good quality overall..

Thanks Again for the Research.

Larry Rusnak
Wadsworth, Ohio
2002 K1200LTC Pacific Blue
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post #34 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 10:13 am
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Larry, One thing I forgot to mention about the ****** filter is that it is painted. I have yet to have one release any paint into the oil bath that it sits in. I check everyone as it comes off.

Cheers.

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post #35 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 10:34 am
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Amsoil bashing

Quote:
Originally Posted by BecketMa
Do I see the start of the first oil thread for the new year?
Bob
Nope, it seems this could be the end of year thread bashing Amsoil products.

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post #36 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 11:01 am
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Quote:
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Nope, it seems this could be the end of year thread bashing Amsoil products.
2006 could be the year when there is no bashing of any kind!

Blessings!
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post #37 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 11:02 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
SMF122
Steve, send one to Mr. Realwing for a disection. That would be interesting, huh?

Blessings!
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post #38 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 11:28 am Thread Starter
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Amsoil Filters

This info is not meant to bash Amsoil - just present facts from my experience. In general, I really liked Amsoil filters until this happened.
This is what the filter looked like after coming out of my 2003 Accord. The filter has essentially collapsed due to high differential pressures - likely due to very cold weather operation combined with a "design flaw". As you can see, the media actually ripped and let some unfiltered oil pass through.
As I indicated, the bypass on a filter is meant to protect the engine as well as the filter element. My assessment was that the "design flaw" is that the upper end of the inner support screen is unsupported-which you can see if you look closely. It can thus collapse very easily-which it did. I submitted this to Amsoil and they disagreed with my assessment, however to me, this is a pretty basic design flaw. I haven't used Amsoil filters since this.

I now see that Amsoil has just introduced a new design (and new price!!) filter that looks very promising. It uses a full synthetic media. http://www.amsoil.com/products/ea_filters/EaO.aspx
I plan to get one and cut it open to see if they have changed the design of the inner support tube.
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post #39 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 12:36 pm
 
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My limited reasearch on oil filters leads me to believe that besides the obvious fit application, the following attributes are important:

1. composite filters are better at removing oil debris than paper elements.
2. total surface area of filters varies tremendously. the more surface area, the less likely a filter will become clogged.
3. relief valve pressure could be important. too high of a relief pressure could cause an oil starvation if the oil flow is impeded. bad design could cause a failure in the relief valve working at all.
4. exteror paint treatment or graphic applications to the filter body could cause issues in a oil bath environment, like the LT has.
5. filter properties are even more important if using synthetic lubrication because of extended oil change intervals.

This last issue is the real issue of filter performance for me. I use synthetics like others on this board and change my oil every 5,000 miles...so it makes me wonder if I'm asking my filter to perform almost twice what it was designed for. This is probably more of an issue for my F250 pickup, where I've run synthetics for years and changed the oil every 15,000 miles. I think I'm going to start swapping out the filter every 3k from now on it, and I'm certainly going to do more research on filter construction before my next service on my LT.
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post #40 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 12:59 pm
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[QUOTE=RealWing]Steve_R

What is p/n of Amsoil filter for a LT?

You mean this one? I'm going to cut this one open now that you raised the question of reliability.

[img]http://www.bmwlt.com/gallery/files/2/0/1/5/******Filter_467762.jpg[/img]
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post #41 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 1:09 pm Thread Starter
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ErnieA

I just found this link to a whole bunch of cut open MC filters - including Amsoil.

http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml

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post #42 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 1:44 pm
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post #43 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 6:01 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humplatch
This last issue is the real issue of filter performance for me. I use synthetics like others on this board and change my oil every 5,000 miles...so it makes me wonder if I'm asking my filter to perform almost twice what it was designed for.
Since the book specs an O&F change every 6000 miles, and from the looks of the recommended filter the guts are capable, I'd say the filter was designed to do just that. What a concept!

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post #44 of 45 Old Dec 26th, 2005, 6:04 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealWing
I just found this link to a whole bunch of cut open MC filters - including Amsoil.

http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml
Your analysis was much better, though. Thanks for contributing to our KB.

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post #45 of 45 Old Dec 28th, 2005, 9:14 am
 
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Re: Oil Filter Assessment (LT)

Excellent posts and photos RealWing. Many thanks for taking the time and sharing your findings with the group.
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