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post #1 of 20 Old Dec 19th, 2005, 3:34 pm Thread Starter
 
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Question Strange Chatter Noise?

I just purchased a 2002 LT and being an X-Dragbike rider I was curious what it would do on a mild burnout. I know that is stupid so save the remarks as I'm just looking for a technical answer and I realize this bike was not designed for this type of abuse. I was mainly curious if the front end would come up or if the rear tire would break loose. I was going about 5 mph, grabbed the clutch, revved to approx 6K rpm and dropped the clutch. Nor did I wheelie or spin the rear wheel. Instead the bike chattered a great bit and accelerated forward. I was listening to my in helmet CD so I wasn't sure if what I thought happened actually did or not. It was later confirmed by my fellow workers that it did in deed make a chatter noise. The bike has approx. 18K miles on it and has been babied up to this point with all the normal maintenance and oil changes. I also just switched all the lubes to fully synthetic. Do you think it was the dry clutch, shaft drive or gear box that made the chatter? I'm kinda worried now that something is wrong and ready to break. Bike seems normal and I haven't tried it since.
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post #2 of 20 Old Dec 19th, 2005, 3:54 pm
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Wink valve noise?

Probably was pinging like a muther.....

Mine has a little timing chain noise when I float the throttle....at around 2500 rpm... It may have been pieces coming off the clutch disk...(( just kidding ))

You probably just bogged it and it really doesn't like that....If it still sounds ok now you probably didn't hurt it this time... Clutch replacement is big money on these bikes.....

Good Luck

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post #3 of 20 Old Dec 19th, 2005, 4:56 pm
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The fuel injectors chatter and sound like loose valves.

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post #4 of 20 Old Dec 19th, 2005, 5:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLBantz
The fuel injectors chatter and sound like loose valves.
This is a new one on me. Can you elaborate?

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' 09 RT
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post #5 of 20 Old Dec 19th, 2005, 8:56 pm
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That was the clutch chattering.



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post #6 of 20 Old Dec 19th, 2005, 9:00 pm Thread Starter
 
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I don't think it is fuel injectors, valves, or pinging. It sounded more like the shaft drive gears jumping teeth. I think that is impossible unless the shaft is toast so cold clutch plate chatter seemed like a better explanation. Maybe it wasn't all the way in first gear?
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post #7 of 20 Old Dec 19th, 2005, 9:06 pm Thread Starter
 
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Is this some what normal or do you think the clutch is going?
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post #8 of 20 Old Dec 19th, 2005, 9:17 pm
 
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The clutch is the weak point in the drive train and will easily give out under stress. Once it's cooled down, it's fine again, at least in my case. I've had my clutch give out on hard launches; however there is also the possibility that you weren't all the way in gear and it slipped out. I also had that happen once when accelerating hard and where it popped out making that grinding chattering noise. I haven't had this happen again since in the last 2 years. I would just ride and not worry about it. If you really did some damage to the gears, I'd think you'd hear something or feel it in the shifts.

Nathan
2000 Champagne K1200LT - 68000 miles
San Francisco, CA

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post #9 of 20 Old Dec 19th, 2005, 9:59 pm
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You could do a trany drain and check the magnetic plug for "excess" metal.
Some fine "crud" would be normal though. Cheers
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post #10 of 20 Old Dec 20th, 2005, 9:03 am
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There have been a few posts on this subject on the old site. I noticed a chatter when accellerating shortly after buying my '03 brand new. My dealer listened and assured me it was normal and that the chatter was made by the fuel injectors during hard acceleration or when lagging the engine. It sounds like valve rattle only quieter.

Brian
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post #11 of 20 Old Dec 20th, 2005, 3:08 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbake250f
I just purchased a 2002 LT and being an X-Dragbike rider I was curious what it would do on a mild burnout. I know that is stupid so save the remarks as I'm just looking for a technical answer and I realize this bike was not designed for this type of abuse. I was mainly curious if the front end would come up or if the rear tire would break loose. I was going about 5 mph, grabbed the clutch, revved to approx 6K rpm and dropped the clutch. Nor did I wheelie or spin the rear wheel. Instead the bike chattered a great bit and accelerated forward. I was listening to my in helmet CD so I wasn't sure if what I thought happened actually did or not. It was later confirmed by my fellow workers that it did in deed make a chatter noise. The bike has approx. 18K miles on it and has been babied up to this point with all the normal maintenance and oil changes. I also just switched all the lubes to fully synthetic. Do you think it was the dry clutch, shaft drive or gear box that made the chatter? I'm kinda worried now that something is wrong and ready to break. Bike seems normal and I haven't tried it since.
How's this for obnoxious: I think everyone is wrong (yeah, I'm stirrin' )

Seriously, I expect the noise was from the transmission, and specifically the shock absorber built into the tranny input shaft. The absorber is designed to prevent MASSIVE shock loading to the drive train (such as, say um, dropping the clutch at 6 grand!). It consists of a heavy coil spring and two sine wave-shaped collars on the input shaft.

The spring is very strong, and in normal operation keeps the two collars tightly engaged with one another, so that power coming in on the first collar passes immediately through the other collar to the tranny intermediate shaft.

When the input shaft receives a big shot, the first collar starts to rotate relative to the second collar, and its sine wave-shaped ramp starts to ride up the face of the opposing ramp on the other collar, forcing the collars to separate against the force of the spring. After the input torque peaks, the spring pushes the two collars back down their respective ramps back into full engagement.

So what's the source of the chatter you heard? If the first collar rotates more than 90 degrees before the torque peaks, its ramp passes over the top of the second collar's next ramp peak, and slams into the second collar's next valley (bang!). Do this with enough suddenly-applied torque, and maintain that torque (like when trying to do a burn out ) and the damper will merrily rise/fall over the ramp peaks several times in succession (bang!bang!bang!bang! ... well, you get the idea).

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #12 of 20 Old Dec 23rd, 2005, 6:15 pm Thread Starter
 
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Cool

OK, I promise not to do any more burnouts.

If it is the tranny shock thingy, how does that french stunt guy do the big burnouts and wheelies?
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post #13 of 20 Old Dec 23rd, 2005, 6:57 pm
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Jean-Pierre Goy is a trained professional. Do not try this at home, er, in front of your home.





Notice he has no mirrors or windshield and the top trunk is moved all the way back (and probably loaded with weight, too). For more discussion and some tips, look here.

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post #14 of 20 Old Dec 23rd, 2005, 7:19 pm
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Nice link Ken.
Any of us 200+ pounders are out of luck! Haven't had the front wheel of a bike up in over 15 years.

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post #15 of 20 Old Dec 23rd, 2005, 7:41 pm
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I just borrowed the pic from Joe, who borrowed it from BMW. Haven't had the chance to see JP Goy in person, but I'd sure like to one day. Just not on my LT.

Ken
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post #16 of 20 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 2:58 am
 
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett

Seriously, I expect the noise was from the transmission, and specifically the shock absorber built into the tranny input shaft. The absorber is designed to prevent MASSIVE shock loading to the drive train (such as, say um, dropping the clutch at 6 grand!). It consists of a heavy coil spring and two sine wave-shaped collars on the input shaft.

The spring is very strong, and in normal operation keeps the two collars tightly engaged with one another, so that power coming in on the first collar passes immediately through the other collar to the tranny intermediate shaft.

When the input shaft receives a big shot, the first collar starts to rotate relative to the second collar, and its sine wave-shaped ramp starts to ride up the face of the opposing ramp on the other collar, forcing the collars to separate against the force of the spring. After the input torque peaks, the spring pushes the two collars back down their respective ramps back into full engagement.



aaaaaaahhhhhhh. very interesting and clever design.
i have a question though.

why is then if this unit is in place that i have read many times that rear end bearing failure in the shaft drive is caused from excess weights like towing trailers and the likes???
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post #17 of 20 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 11:46 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezrae
aaaaaaahhhhhhh. very interesting and clever design.
i have a question though.

why is then if this unit is in place that i have read many times that rear end bearing failure in the shaft drive is caused from excess weights like towing trailers and the likes???
The rear end bearing failures are not due to shock loading. The final drive bearing appears to fail from deformation of the bearing cage elements over time, something the tranny shock absorber can't do anything about.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #18 of 20 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 11:51 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbake250f
OK, I promise not to do any more burnouts.

If it is the tranny shock thingy, how does that french stunt guy do the big burnouts and wheelies?
Just a matter of how strong the input shaft spring is. You can raise the nose without "shocking" the drivetrain so hard that you overrun the input shaft ramps; the spring preload is so high that it generates enough spring force to prevent overrun in all but the highest shock loadings.

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
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post #19 of 20 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 2:34 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbake250f
I was going about 5 mph, grabbed the clutch, revved to approx 6K rpm and dropped the clutch. Instead the bike chattered a great bit I'm kinda worried now that something is wrong and ready to break. .
Uhh, not to sound rude but I think that chattering must be some rocks rattling around in your helmet. This is NOT a CBR 600, but hey it's your bike and you are free to abuse it if you like. Just seems like a shame to me.

Paul S.
..........................
Producer of the K1200LT Service Videos
Maker of the HD Lugage Rack kit

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post #20 of 20 Old Dec 24th, 2005, 3:03 pm
 
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the noise is from reer w

this strange noise ken be from the ABS
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