valve check, where did I go wrong??? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 9:14 am Thread Starter
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valve check, where did I go wrong???

I buttoned her up yesterday after performing the 12,000 service. I started her up and took a short, ten minute ride. I was happy as a clam until I pulled in the garage and it started marking its territory right infront of me!

The valve cover is leaking and I followed the Clymer manual word-for-word. I cleaned all of the old sealant off of the "half moons", and used contact cleaner on the gasket. I applied black RTV, let it set up per the instructions. Installed the three bolts finger tight, made sure the lines from the gasket to the valve cover were aligned. tightened the bolt in a staggered pattern working from the middle of the cover out. Did I miss something? I didn't use very much RTV because there wasn't much on there when I pulled it. I guess I'm going to pull it apart tonight, any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks
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post #2 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 10:33 am Thread Starter
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

C'mon guys. Any suggestions???
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post #3 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 10:51 am
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

I assume RTV is a silicone gasket liquid/paste,??.
Just take the cover off again, check where it was leaking, if there is no damage to the gasket, clean it up, stick some more/enough liquid gasket on & bolt it back on.
As a matter of interest, how many times has this cover been off, this should be its first time since delivery at point of sale??, if so?, there should be no re use issues, in fact IMHO there are no re use issues anyway, as the liguid gasket should cope with re use, as long as there is no damage to the gasket.
Before someone comes back with a comment, i would not expect to re use a gasket indefinitely.
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post #4 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 10:58 am
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

How many miles are on that gasket? If you used the RTV it seems something is pinched out of place or not torqued down.

It's easy to miss the valve cover bolt in the center on the end of the cover. I almost missed tightening it last time but caught it when I re-torqued everything.

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post #5 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 11:05 am
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

I was lucky on my valve check. There was no leaks and the gasket resealed well (with the black RTV).

You have no choice but to investigate.

For me, I'd strip her down on that side, clean her up real good and start her up (naturally after checking oil level).

This should give you some guidance. You may be "dumb-lucky" and just have to retorque. I think the covers are Mag Alloy, so "Guden-Tight" may NOT be the right torque. Check the book for the proper torque values.

Find out where she's leaking and take her back apart.

If you've lived a "pure" life, it may just be low torque

Good Luck,

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post #6 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 11:13 am Thread Starter
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

The bolts on the cover are shoulder bolts. So, my guess is they basically bottom out on the shoulder? I'll have to recheck it. Lesson learned, check for leaks BEFORE putting the tupperware back on. BTW, its the first time the cover has been removed,(12k) thanks guys
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post #7 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 11:13 am
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

My first one leaked oil all over the place so you are not alone. Apply to the edges of each half moon AND the area of the gasket that touches the joint between the timimg cover and the head (two places).

Don't go crazy but put a generous bead at each location. Then make sure you wipe down the mating surface and install the cylinder cover.

When the screws are properly torqued they are actually bottomed out, turn them no futher or damage will occur. The cover is held in place by the compressed rubber gromets.

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post #8 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 11:15 am
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

I had the same problem. New Gasket and all. Applied sealant in the places describe and it leaked everywhere. Try a little more sealant, and all should be well.

Jeremy
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post #9 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 2:08 pm
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Cool Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

You didn't by chance miss that infamous hidden center bolt when you were doing the torquing did you? Others on this list have, and experienced the same type of leaking.

Just more food for thought.

John

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post #10 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 3:25 pm
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkdrmr1
Lesson learned, check for leaks BEFORE putting the tupperware back on.
This may be the reason that my service writer suggested to leave the bike over night after checking the valves. This way they will see if there are any leaks in the morning. It makes some sense but I would hate to leave the bike overnight.

Mike Trevelino
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post #11 of 25 Old Apr 24th, 2008, 8:30 pm
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Been a while.

Are those the ones I carefully cleaned and then lightly oiled before torquing?
Bob

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post #12 of 25 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 1:52 am
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

I never use RTV sealer. I coat both sides of the gasket with wheel bearing grease. Works for me.

dan
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post #13 of 25 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 7:01 am
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMartin
I never use RTV sealer. I coat both sides of the gasket with wheel bearing grease. Works for me.

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post #14 of 25 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 8:54 am Thread Starter
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Talking Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Heres my update:Thanks for the input yet again! Went home last night and the first thing I checked were the bolts. I missed the one in the center. Torqued it, buttoned it up, and rode a little over 100 miles. NOT A DROP! Thanks again
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post #15 of 25 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 9:00 am
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Talking Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Like I have said before, that one is very easy to miss! You are not the first to miss it and almost certainly will not be the last.

Glad to hear you found the fix.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkdrmr1
Heres my update:Thanks for the input yet again! Went home last night and the first thing I checked were the bolts. I missed the one in the center. Torqued it, buttoned it up, and rode a little over 100 miles. NOT A DROP! Thanks again

John & Marilyn Fisher
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post #16 of 25 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 9:15 pm
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Wink Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkdrmr1
Heres my update:Thanks for the input yet again! Went home last night and the first thing I checked were the bolts. I missed the one in the center. Torqued it, buttoned it up, and rode a little over 100 miles. NOT A DROP! Thanks again
Grif and I can tell you what happens if you forget to put that bolt IN, much less forget to tighten it! Or maybe we just left it really loose.

My statement a few years back was that it is easy to see those two lines of soldiers standing in straight line formation, but easy to miss that one poor one on duty down below guarding the OIL SUPPLY!

That one lonely bolt is in a hole that seems to be drilled into an oil passage. Leave it out, and you will pump a quart of oil out in about 5 miles!

Please don't ask either Grif or I how we know this though? Right Grif?

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post #17 of 25 Old May 30th, 2009, 3:46 pm
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Angry Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Well I took my 2003 LT to the dealer for a valve adjustment at 65,000 miles. I picked it up and parked it in the garage for 6 days while it rained and YOU GUESSED it, it leaked oil on the floor. I took it back and I was not very happy. They called to say that they found the leak and the valve cover was warped. There solution was a new valve cover or they would try a different sealant. Does anyone have any ideas on what causes a valve cover to warp, unless it is pried off and bent?

This is not my first problem, last time they adjusted them at 12,000 miles they did not tighen the cover down and after 30 miles my boot and bike was dripping oil. Took it back and the tourqed them down and that solved the problem.

Since I am getting ready to ride to Alaska and I won't know till Tuesday if the sealant works I don't know if I can take it or not, so I am asking my self why I paid them $1,000.00 to screw up my bike.

I love BMW but the price they charge for service is highway robbery and this is the forth time I have had to go back with a problem.

I guess I am going to do all my own service or get rid of both my BMW's and get a Goldwing.
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post #18 of 25 Old May 30th, 2009, 6:15 pm
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Thumbs up Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgrose
I guess I am going to do all my own service or get rid of both my BMW's and get a Goldwing.
Do your own service, have tech sessions, invite fellow LTers to your party, make new friends!

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post #19 of 25 Old May 30th, 2009, 7:06 pm
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

The first time I put the valve cover back on I did not get enough sealant in the right spots and had a leak. That is pretty common. I would just have them redo the sealant.

John
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post #20 of 25 Old May 30th, 2009, 7:23 pm
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Do your own service, have tech sessions, invite fellow LTers to your party, make new friends!
AMEN!

David, you have a wealth of good wrenches within 100 miles of you. They aren't professional mechanics, but with the knowledge they have, they sure could be. Sheldan2 in Kings Mtn., CCCPastorJack and Saddle-Man(pro? works for NASCAR team) in Huntersville, Bowlesj in Glen Alpine, joegottberg in Mooresville, wcarter in Greenville, SC, and Chilkoot_Charlie near Winston-Salem immediately come to mind. All have worked on, directed my efforts, or offered to help me do things to my LT. If I am forgetting anyone, I sincerely apologize. All of these fellas were more than willing to lend a hand whenever I asked. Others from around the country have passed along tips and a few pictures to assist, long distance.

As far as I know, our last tech session was March 2008. If there were more, I didn't see posts about them. That doesn't mean we stopped having them. It means that no one requested one. If you host it, (or get someone else to ) they will come. Just give as much notice as you can, 3 weeks to a month is probably good. That gives people time to make arrangements to attend. Make a short list of services you'd like help with or like to learn to do. If there are three things LTers like, it's riding, meeting other LTers and turning wrenches. Maybe in that order.

Give a tech session a try. Can't hurt.

Lee
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post #21 of 25 Old May 30th, 2009, 7:30 pm
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee510
If there are three things LTers like, it's riding, meeting other LTers and turning wrenches. Maybe in that order.
You missed one so I'll fix it for you. Riding, Meeting with other LTers, Eating and Turning wrenches (or kibitzing). Generally doesn't get done in that order though.

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post #22 of 25 Old May 30th, 2009, 7:53 pm
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgrose
Well I took my 2003 LT to the dealer for a valve adjustment at 65,000 miles. I picked it up and parked it in the garage for 6 days while it rained and YOU GUESSED it, it leaked oil on the floor. I took it back and I was not very happy. They called to say that they found the leak and the valve cover was warped. There solution was a new valve cover or they would try a different sealant. Does anyone have any ideas on what causes a valve cover to warp, unless it is pried off and bent?

I guess I am going to do all my own service or get rid of both my BMW's and get a Goldwing.
Although I guess it can happen, I've never heard of the LT valve cover being warped. I would think maybe sloppy handling of the valve cover gasket, and/or re-use of the gasket without cleaning out the old sealant, to be more a prime suspect for an oil leak in that area. There isn't much oil that get's in that area, so any leak should be minimal in volume.

The valve cover gasket , at installation, gets RTV sealant at only 8 points on the gasket (at each side joint of the four half-moon humps) and a very thin coat applied to the area where the cylinder head, timing case cover and valve cover meet at the front portion of the block.

And in some instances, the front center valve cover screw, which is just ahead of the spark plug area, and somewhat hidden, has gone un-noticed during the final torque tightening, or missed altogether.

At any rate, just to let you know what the possibilities are that could lead to the oil leak (how bad wuz it, btw??); other than a 'warped' valve cover!!

And please tell me that the charge for valve *check* wuzn't 1,000 bones!!! Other work wuz done, right?!!
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post #23 of 25 Old May 30th, 2009, 7:56 pm
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Steve,
You are so right. I forgot about EATING!

Lee
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post #24 of 25 Old May 30th, 2009, 11:14 pm
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgrose
Well I took my 2003 LT to the dealer for a valve adjustment at 65,000 miles. I picked it up and parked it in the garage for 6 days while it rained and YOU GUESSED it, it leaked oil on the floor. I took it back and I was not very happy. They called to say that they found the leak and the valve cover was warped. There solution was a new valve cover or they would try a different sealant. Does anyone have any ideas on what causes a valve cover to warp, unless it is pried off and bent?

This is not my first problem, last time they adjusted them at 12,000 miles they did not tighen the cover down and after 30 miles my boot and bike was dripping oil. Took it back and the tourqed them down and that solved the problem.

Since I am getting ready to ride to Alaska and I won't know till Tuesday if the sealant works I don't know if I can take it or not, so I am asking my self why I paid them $1,000.00 to screw up my bike.

I love BMW but the price they charge for service is highway robbery and this is the forth time I have had to go back with a problem.

I guess I am going to do all my own service or get rid of both my BMW's and get a Goldwing.
I'd get in a good ride before leaving Tuesday. Ask the dealer if their warranty is good at other dealerships given you are going to be traveling on the bike; if you spring another leak, you shouldn't have to pay again.

Have a safe, uneventful trip.
Curt

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post #25 of 25 Old May 31st, 2009, 8:41 am
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Re: valve check, where did I go wrong???

+1
I think the dealer was just trying to justify sloppy work and CHA.

I'll bet it was the sealant or lack of and he is not honest enough to admit a mistake.

I am wondering if there is enough qualified BMW Techs to go around these days?

I know I did my valve check in Easton PA and after about a two hour set time on the RTV I rode 140 miles home and never had an issue.

Dealer service/work like this sucks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Although I guess it can happen, I've never heard of the LT valve cover being warped. I would think maybe sloppy handling of the valve cover gasket, and/or re-use of the gasket without cleaning out the old sealant, to be more a prime suspect for an oil leak in that area. There isn't much oil that get's in that area, so any leak should be minimal in volume.

The valve cover gasket , at installation, gets RTV sealant at only 8 points on the gasket (at each side joint of the four half-moon humps) and a very thin coat applied to the area where the cylinder head, timing case cover and valve cover meet at the front portion of the block.

And in some instances, the front center valve cover screw, which is just ahead of the spark plug area, and somewhat hidden, has gone un-noticed during the final torque tightening, or missed altogether.

At any rate, just to let you know what the possibilities are that could lead to the oil leak (how bad wuz it, btw??); other than a 'warped' valve cover!!

And please tell me that the charge for valve *check* wuzn't 1,000 bones!!! Other work wuz done, right?!!

Lee
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