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post #1 of 19 Old Apr 20th, 2008, 4:55 pm Thread Starter
 
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2000 K1200LTC question

I have an opportunity to purchase a 2000 K1200LTC from a friend of the family. He bought it in 2004 put about 500 miles on it and it has been sitting idle since. It has about 31,000k on it. It also has all service records up to a 24k service and 30 K oil change. He wants 6K for it (has a lot of dough so $ not a big issue for him). I am concerned that it has been sitting so long. First question does price seem good? and the second question what needs to be done in light of the fact it has been idle for so long?
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post #2 of 19 Old Apr 20th, 2008, 5:01 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

Price sounds right and with a fresh battery and up to date change of fluids, it should be ready to go, let's see what the real experts have to say?
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post #3 of 19 Old Apr 20th, 2008, 5:20 pm
 
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

LT's that have been sitting without much use will require a lot of work, repairs, and maintenance. My '00, used just 2500 miles in 3 years has cost me $1200 without any labor! Triple that if you can't do your own work. Price is $500-1000 high. My opinion.
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post #4 of 19 Old Apr 20th, 2008, 5:42 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzbmwhnd
LT's that have been sitting without much use will require a lot of work, repairs, and maintenance. My '00, used just 2500 miles in 3 years has cost me $1200 without any labor! Triple that if you can't do your own work. Price is $500-1000 high. My opinion.

I couldn't agree more.. I purchased an '03 in '05 with 800 miles on it of which about 795 were from dealer demo rides...

I have had the following work done since then in 32K miles:

1) Rear Mail Seal replacement - 1600.00
2) Output Shaft Seal Replacement 900.00
3) Fork Seals Replaced 400.00
4) Starter Replaced under Warranty

Now my clutch is slipping and it will be going in for the slave cylinder and clutch replacement .. Big Bucks.

If it wasn't for my extended warranty, I would be eating everything

****** WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING *******

DO NOT BUY AN LT OR ANY BMW MOTORCYCLE THAT HAS JUST BEEN SITTING FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME NO MATTER WHAT THE SERVICE HISTORY SAYS !!!!!!!!!

The seals will be toast !!!!!!!! Bad Idea... Pass on the bike !!!!!!!
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post #5 of 19 Old Apr 20th, 2008, 5:46 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

My 2000 had 17,400 miles on it when I bought it last summer. I have increased that to 23,700. I'm not sure of km to miles conversion. I've heard that LT's that sit develop leaks around the seals. Mine has none. Yes, there is maintenance to do. Engine oil, tranny, final drive, brakes, and clutch. Those fluids would need changing. Check under the bike for leaks. Put the battery on a low-powered charger for a few hours or until the charging light goes out. Put it on the centerstand. See if it will start. Let it run a bit. If you are in a safe area, ask if you can ride it. It's a heavy beast, so be ready for the weight. If the battery received a good charge, the ABS lights will go out after she's underway. On startup they will flash together. If they're alternating, something may be amiss with the ABS. The brakes will work, you just won't have ABS. Ride a few miles/kms. Shift through the gears. When you return, park and check for leaks.

The bike may smoke on startup. This is due to the "brick" engine. Hold the bike upright for 30 seconds after shutting it off. This will allow the oil to drain to the pan.

As with any vehicle, check it carefully. HTH

Lee
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post #6 of 19 Old Apr 20th, 2008, 6:26 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

I purchased my 2000 in August of 2006 for a price near your friends offer. It had 17K miles. Couldn't find any substantial maintenance records from local dealerships except a minor recall upgrade. I changed the engine oil & filter and rear drive fluid as well as plugs the 1st week end in my garage.

At '07 CCR it was a demo "wrench" bike and the 24K was done at 27.7K miles . It will turn 30K next week.

Other than farkle installs and regular oil changes for costs, it's running like a great BMW K1200LTC!

Buy It and Ride it Like You Stole It!

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post #7 of 19 Old Apr 20th, 2008, 8:48 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

Try one of the on-line "Blue-Books" and the classifieds here.

As far as I can remember, the correlation between engine and trany seals leaking, and low miles, hasn't been established.

Haven't seen anything about length of time between manufacture and start of usage either.

I think if it were true, then people in the snow regions would be plagued with oil leaks every year and those of us in the snow free sunshine states wouldn't have any leaks.

But. That is just my guess.

With the 00, you will want to verify that the crash pan has been added, the defective computer chip was replaced, and see if the defective starter relay was replaced.

Look carefully at the area between the engine and trany. Any indication of seepage there means the engine rear seal is leaking.

If the crash pan is installed, it protects the trany, see if there is any oily dirt in it. That indicates the rear engine seal is leaking.

With the 99 and 00, the brakes aren't linked ABS. As a result, it is easy to change the brake fluid.

One more thing. Open the trunk, look at the left hand trunk latch pin, on the lower part of the trunk. If it looks as if someone has been at it with a hack saw, the trunk latch mechanism will break soon.

Bob, 0h Oh LT

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post #8 of 19 Old Apr 20th, 2008, 10:55 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

Thanks everyone...all great info. I have been researching the web site for a couple of days now. If I do negotiate the price where I want it, I will take it to the dealer to inspect. However, I am concerned with all the FD failure posts. I am less concerned than I would be if I was plunking down for new but wondering if there is a link to a post on how to "check" for any sign of potential FD failure?
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post #9 of 19 Old Apr 20th, 2008, 11:38 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

Sorry.

No way to check for future FD failure.

As far as I know, no one knows why they fail.

Oh.
Forgot to mention.
The speedo reads about 10% too high.
Not too much chatter about that since many people use GPS.

Bob

"He was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson
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post #10 of 19 Old Apr 21st, 2008, 2:13 am
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

I'll say it again:


****** WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING *******

DO NOT BUY AN LT OR ANY BMW MOTORCYCLE THAT HAS JUST BEEN SITTING FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME NO MATTER WHAT THE SERVICE HISTORY SAYS !!!!!!!!!

The seals will be toast !!!!!!!! Bad Idea... Pass on the bike !!!!!!!


I know everyone has good intentions to help you here.. I would move on... I have put over 30K on my bike in less then 3 years and everyone that I have talked to that was experienced with BMW motorcycles, both techs, and long time owners of many repeat the same thing to me.

It is my presonal experience again. Don't do it..

If you choose to ignore what I am telling you, "YOU WILL BE SORRY" at some point....

It is the God's Honest Truth !!!!! If I had known then what I know now, I would have "PASSED" on the bike.. There are plenty out there...

Buy one with some warranty left and buy an extended warranty for the bike.

I know you are hot under the collar to get a bike.. I know how you feel. Just get the right one... But don't get that one !!!!!!!!
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post #11 of 19 Old Apr 21st, 2008, 5:12 am
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

Seals leaking from sitting to long is an urban myth resulting from history of much older vehicles (think old British, MG, Triumph, BSA, etc.) where the seals were made of very different materials from modern compounds and really did "dry out". Add to that a few unlucky folks who have had seal leaks and vehemently report their conclusions that the leaks were caused by their bike sitting too long. I would submit that they really don't know what caused the leaks. Unbalanced condition at the clutch, improper assembly, improper lubricants, improper oil addititives, lots of possible explainations.

If we had good, valid stastistics I think we'd find that low mileage older bikes don't have seal leaks at any greater frequency than frequently new bikes or frequently ridden older bikes.

BMW's seals really aren't any different that any other manufacturer's. They buy them from seal manufactuer's. Okay, maybe they contract to have "BMW" stamped.

I have BMWs that are 30-40 years that sat for years before I brought them back to life. The seals don't leak. Modern BMW seals are inferior to those?

BMW does screw things up, they don't build perfect machines.

The machine you are looking at may have problems someday. But I wouldn't hesitate to buy it just because it is low mileage. For me, that is a reason to go for it.
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post #12 of 19 Old Apr 21st, 2008, 7:57 am
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieVT
Seals leaking from sitting to long is an urban myth resulting from history of much older vehicles (think old British, MG, Triumph, BSA, etc.) where the seals were made of very different materials from modern compounds and really did "dry out". Add to that a few unlucky folks who have had seal leaks and vehemently report their conclusions that the leaks were caused by their bike sitting too long. I would submit that they really don't know what caused the leaks. Unbalanced condition at the clutch, improper assembly, improper lubricants, improper oil addititives, lots of possible explainations.

If we had good, valid stastistics I think we'd find that low mileage older bikes don't have seal leaks at any greater frequency than frequently new bikes or frequently ridden older bikes.

BMW's seals really aren't any different that any other manufacturer's. They buy them from seal manufactuer's. Okay, maybe they contract to have "BMW" stamped.

I have BMWs that are 30-40 years that sat for years before I brought them back to life. The seals don't leak. Modern BMW seals are inferior to those?

BMW does screw things up, they don't build perfect machines.

The machine you are looking at may have problems someday. But I wouldn't hesitate to buy it just because it is low mileage. For me, that is a reason to go for it.
It would be one thing if 1 seal went, but almost every important seal on my motorcycle has gone bad.. You can't say that is a coincidence..

Every tech in northern Colorado that I have spoken to confirms what I am saying.. Urban legend is a great way to explain away something that you don't agree with...

Colorado has very, very low humidity and I am sure that it has contributed to the problem. But, you just can't make a statement like that and poo poo it away.

Improper lubricants: let's see, BMW Motorcycle oil all its life then a conversion to Amsoil at 18K changed at 5K intervals with BMW filters", BMW Gear, Amsoil Severe Gear...

Improper Additives: Uhhhhh... BG44K in the engine or none...

Improper assembly??? Hmmm... That is one that would hard to validate.. The dealer disassebled the engine to repair the other seal problems.. Guess it is their fault.


Sorry, you are wrong !!!!



****** WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING *******

DO NOT BUY AN LT OR ANY BMW MOTORCYCLE THAT HAS JUST BEEN SITTING FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME NO MATTER WHAT THE SERVICE HISTORY SAYS !!!!!!!!!

The seals will be toast !!!!!!!! Bad Idea... Pass on the bike !!!!!!!

Last edited by rglassma; Apr 21st, 2008 at 8:08 am.
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post #13 of 19 Old Apr 21st, 2008, 8:36 am
 
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

Tell him that you want a major serivce done on it at same price and if it is good you take it from him at 6k.

If he is loaded and it is family I am sure he would not like to know that he sold you something that could end up you nagging him for the rest of the friendship!
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post #14 of 19 Old Apr 21st, 2008, 5:16 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rglassma
I'll say it again:


****** WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING *******

DO NOT BUY AN LT OR ANY BMW MOTORCYCLE THAT HAS JUST BEEN SITTING FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME NO MATTER WHAT THE SERVICE HISTORY SAYS !!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------
There is no real evidence anywhere to back that up. Seals that are just sitting do not "age" any more than they do in a box on the shelf.

MANY years ago, actually many decades ago, a lot of oil seals were made from treated leather, and synthetic leather substitutes. Old seals hardened and cracked, whether in an engine, or just sitting on the shelf. Those days are LONG gone.

Modern elastomeric seals do NOT harden and crack just from age, but from heat cycles and slow degradation from oil additives at temperature when under use.

I would not hesitate to buy an older bike that has been sitting. I would just change ALL the fluids, including lubricants, coolant, brake, and clutch fluids.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
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No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #15 of 19 Old Apr 21st, 2008, 10:32 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

I'm another one who feels that seals wear out from shafts spinning and heat cycles, not a few years of sitting at ambient temperatures in Seattle. I'm still running my 9 year old LT that I bought new and it still has the same old engine and transmission seals. I did do a preempted strike on the rear drive at 47K. Now have 68K, runs like new. I you like it, buy it.
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post #16 of 19 Old Apr 21st, 2008, 10:44 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

I bought my 99' LT and it had been sitting for a about a year and a half with no startups or maintenance. I rode the bike home 800+ miles with absolutely no mechanical problems and still do not have any problems with any seals 2 years later. Just because several people had seal problems does not mean that everyone had seal problems. There are many of us out here that took our chances and had no problems. Additionally if there is a problem with a seal and you are mechanically inclined the cost of repairing is mainly "TIME".

Oh and mine had 62K miles at time of purchase, and the maintenance records do not show any seal replacements. Of course when I get off of work tonight I will have a puddle under the bike.

Jeremy
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post #17 of 19 Old Apr 21st, 2008, 10:55 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

I had every seal you listed go bad and I ride mine every single day since I don't own a car. There may have been a bad batch of seals or something, but my bike did NOT sit and I still lost every seal you listed. You may feel your's was caused by sitting but my did not sit and ended up with the same problems. I'm certainly not going to come to the conclusion that riding it caused the seals to leak.

Dale White

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Charles Bukowski
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post #18 of 19 Old Apr 21st, 2008, 11:29 pm
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

I bought my 2000 LT last july with only 8k on the clock. Needless to say, it sat alot. The bike was originally sold in AZ, and has been here ever since, climates don't get much drier than here in the phx area. I've ridden it at least 4 times a week locally since getting it, and a few 1k+ trips. So far no signs of any leaks. I've used the info on this forum to regularly inspect the problem areas as best I can when I clean the bike or change fluids, but other than that I'm not worried about it. I've owned over 35 bikes, most of them bought used, and in my opinion, low milage is a strong incentive to buy. If it breaks or leaks, it can be fixed. Besides, I read about alot of new bikes that have problems right away. I'd buy this bike for the $6k if I were looking. Let us know what you do!

Steve
Chandler, AZ
2000 BMW 1200LT


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post #19 of 19 Old Apr 22nd, 2008, 11:56 am
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Re: 2000 K1200LTC question

I was once told by a mechanic that if you used mineral oil and changed latter to synthetic--it will cause seal lickage. Start off with synthetic and you'll be fine but do not change in midstream.
Is this a fair statement or just a myth?
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