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post #1 of 14 Old Apr 13th, 2008, 6:55 pm Thread Starter
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Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Please don't flame or pissily tell me to go search. I have. If that's all you have to contribute to this thread, please resist the temptation to post.

I didn't whine when the alternator driveshaft broke in two. I'm not whining now.

2001 K1200LT coming up on a 60k service. All maintenance has been done on schedule with rear drive oil changes at 6k. I've done all the maintenance.

Commuting 35 miles to work and I start to hear a grinding sound on the way home one evening. Pull in the clutch and it continues. Go slow; it's speed dependent and sounds like it's during the same part of rotation of the wheels.

I put the bike up on the center stand, start it, put it in first, and rev it up. I pull the clutch in and it slows very quickly...far quicker than it has in the past when I've done this. I shut the bike down and I drain the FD oil to see a black goo (no big) and a whole lot of pretty shiny metal flakes. I look at the drain plug and see....a whole bunch of metal stuck to the magnet. A whole bunch. Never seen anything like that. My rear disc also look like it's loosened up on the carrier and worn quite a it. I take off the caliper; the rim doesn't seem to move when I push the rim back and forth across the axis fo the bike.

I'm guessing I'm in the early (er) stages of final drive failure.

One question I have is; what is the chance that I can get a good-will warranty?

If there's no chance in hell, I'll buy an FD unit from a trike manufacturer and run that until I can rebuild the one that has failed on my bike.

There's also no way in hell I'm going to run this until it's fixed. Commuting on my Ducati Hypermotard.....truly sucks. I miss my LT. And I've got to fix it before the vacation trip this year.

Any recommendations from those who have gone through this previously?

Thank you, in advance, for your gems of wisdom,

-Mark
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post #2 of 14 Old Apr 13th, 2008, 7:05 pm
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

I can't help with your current decision, but there are quite a few FD units on eBay. Some as little as $300. Most seem to go (Buy It Now, Express or stores) for about $500. You might want to check them out.

2006 Magnesium Black Metallic K1200LT (sold - sigh)
1996 Sinus (aka Cirrus) Blue Metallic R1100RT
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post #3 of 14 Old Apr 13th, 2008, 7:09 pm
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckelew
Please don't flame or pissily tell me to go search. I have. If that's all you have to contribute to this thread, please resist the temptation to post.

I didn't whine when the alternator driveshaft broke in two. I'm not whining now.

2001 K1200LT coming up on a 60k service. All maintenance has been done on schedule with rear drive oil changes at 6k. I've done all the maintenance.

Commuting 35 miles to work and I start to hear a grinding sound on the way home one evening. Pull in the clutch and it continues. Go slow; it's speed dependent and sounds like it's during the same part of rotation of the wheels.

I put the bike up on the center stand, start it, put it in first, and rev it up. I pull the clutch in and it slows very quickly...far quicker than it has in the past when I've done this. I shut the bike down and I drain the FD oil to see a black goo (no big) and a whole lot of pretty shiny metal flakes. I look at the drain plug and see....a whole bunch of metal stuck to the magnet. A whole bunch. Never seen anything like that. My rear disc also look like it's loosened up on the carrier and worn quite a it. I take off the caliper; the rim doesn't seem to move when I push the rim back and forth across the axis fo the bike.

I'm guessing I'm in the early (er) stages of final drive failure.

One question I have is; what is the chance that I can get a good-will warranty?

If there's no chance in hell, I'll buy an FD unit from a trike manufacturer and run that until I can rebuild the one that has failed on my bike.

There's also no way in hell I'm going to run this until it's fixed. Commuting on my Ducati Hypermotard.....truly sucks. I miss my LT. And I've got to fix it before the vacation trip this year.

Any recommendations from those who have gone through this previously?

Thank you, in advance, for your gems of wisdom,

-Mark
I had a 2005 with 41,000 miles on it. It was just two years old and the rear drive oil was changed every 3,000 miles. BMW would not even consider warranty, which I did have extended warranty and they replaced the drive. BMW is not going to do anything on a 2001 LT with 60,000 miles. That is remarkable for most LT's. You will find a few that will have 100,000 miles on them.

Jerry Mathison
Woodbine, Iowa
2008 Gold Wing
2005 Ocean Blue (Sold)
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post #4 of 14 Old Apr 13th, 2008, 7:16 pm
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckelew
Any recommendations from those who have gone through this previously?

Thank you, in advance, for your gems of wisdom,

-Mark
It certainly sounds like you have the beginnings of a failed crown bearing. The best answer I can give you: it depends. It depends on the age of your LT, it depends on your dealer and it depends on the area rep your dealer has to work with. You will need your dealer to diagnose the problem first, because you will not get any warranty concession until an authorized dealer determines what is wrong. If your dealer determines the drive is bad you should ask your dealer if he can help you get a good will extension of the warranty. If the dealer is unwilling or unable, the next step is to call BMW customer service. With your dealer and with BMW customer service it will always pay to be reasonable. Firmly but not threateningly stating your position that you are a little dismayed that the drive has failed. Make sure they understand that it would be your expectation that a major drive component would last much longer than yours did. If you don't get a concession, your last resort is to get the drive repaired by the dealer, then submit the bill to BMW, with a letter explaining your position that this failure is something you wouldn't expect to encounter this early in your bike's life. All communication, both written and verbal will have a better effect if you are firm in your stance but reasonable in your tone. You are likely to have a better chance by asking rather than demanding.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

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post #5 of 14 Old Apr 13th, 2008, 7:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
It certainly sounds like you have the beginnings of a failed crown bearing. The best answer I can give you: it depends. It depends on the age of your LT, it depends on your dealer and it depends on the area rep your dealer has to work with. You will need your dealer to diagnose the problem first, because you will not get any warranty concession until an authorized dealer determines what is wrong. If your dealer determines the drive is bad you should ask your dealer if he can help you get a good will extension of the warranty. If the dealer is unwilling or unable, the next step is to call BMW customer service. With your dealer and with BMW customer service it will always pay to be reasonable. Firmly but not threateningly stating your position that you are a little dismayed that the drive has failed. Make sure they understand that it would be your expectation that a major drive component would last much longer than yours did. If you don't get a concession, your last resort is to get the drive repaired by the dealer, then submit the bill to BMW, with a letter explaining your position that this failure is something you wouldn't expect to encounter this early in your bike's life. All communication, both written and verbal will have a better effect if you are firm in your stance but reasonable in your tone. You are likely to have a better chance by asking rather than demanding.
Randy,

I've been through this type of thing before with Ducati. I can't say I did it the way you outlined above...but that is the correct way to go about it. Funny thing is that the customer service guy I dealt with, on the Ducati, ended up working for BMW after Ducati left NJ. I'll have to call and see if he's still there. Maybe my notoriety from Ducati will carry some weight with the Customer Service people at BMW if I go through him.

Either way.....it's a great bike, a pleasure to ride, and I miss it.

Thanks for the advice.
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post #6 of 14 Old Apr 13th, 2008, 7:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrym
I had a 2005 with 41,000 miles on it. It was just two years old and the rear drive oil was changed every 3,000 miles. BMW would not even consider warranty, which I did have extended warranty and they replaced the drive. BMW is not going to do anything on a 2001 LT with 60,000 miles. That is remarkable for most LT's. You will find a few that will have 100,000 miles on them.
I don't consider 60k to be a lot of miles for this type of bike. I've put more than this on an FJ1200. Hell, I did 17k on my first FJ1200 in the first 8 weeks.

I may just forego the aggravation of dealing with BMW....
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post #7 of 14 Old Apr 13th, 2008, 8:34 pm
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckelew
I don't consider 60k to be a lot of miles for this type of bike. I've put more than this on an FJ1200. Hell, I did 17k on my first FJ1200 in the first 8 weeks.

I may just forego the aggravation of dealing with BMW....
I would just look on e-bay and buy from a triked one. I got an 08 0 mile for 400 to the door, they don't ship cheap.

And if all else failed I would order a new one from Chicago and be done with it. Repair your old one and keep if for a spare.

I just cant see the aggravation and down time for 400 bucks or so. Really until you get all the documentation and opinions you need you will be out a lot of riding time.

And since I have gone rounds with all sort of corporate America I know how fast a situation can digress and it really is not worth the aggravation. Don't get me wrong, sure try but if you even get a little bad feeling from your first contact, move on.

I also do not consider 60,000 on the major drive component a lot either.

I have 2 years and 4 months of warranty left and I STILL bought this spare drive. After reading all this I was scared to run 600-700 mile runs without a "mailer" FD,30MM cut out and 12 MM allen,5oz of gear oil, Digital Torque wrench, and some other assorted. My sister will overnight it to me no matter where I am. So I got piece of mind with a 400 drive, and whatever it could cost overnight, 100.00 I would guess.

Well worth it to me even in warranty, because of the grin this bikes brings to my face.

Lee
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15 R1200 RTLC San Marino Blue Metallic (Sold)
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O7 Biarritz Blue Metallic LT (Totaled 2010)
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post #8 of 14 Old Apr 13th, 2008, 8:39 pm
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckelew
I don't consider 60k to be a lot of miles for this type of bike. I've put more than this on an FJ1200. Hell, I did 17k on my first FJ1200 in the first 8 weeks.

I may just forego the aggravation of dealing with BMW....
I don't consider 60,000 to be much for a BMW either. There was a time that BMW felt the drives should last longer than that as well. I cannot tell you what their position will be now, but I have been told repeatedly over the last few months that BMW Motorrad USA has a new focus on their product mix and on customer satisfaction. I think you should test them and let us know.

I also cannot stress enough how important it is to develop a good relationship with a dealer because they can certainly come to bat for a customer when an accommodation is possible. My relationship is with my dealer has never included aggravation - they do what they can for me and tell me what they can and cannot do. When my GS lost the ring antenna in the middle of the Yukon Territory, my dealer grabbed the reigns and took care of helping me find the best possible solution for my bad situation. BMW also took care of what they needed to, but my dealer certainly made the process go smoothly.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

Just ride it!
Meet Riley

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post #9 of 14 Old Apr 14th, 2008, 12:20 am Thread Starter
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
I also cannot stress enough how important it is to develop a good relationship with a dealer because they can certainly come to bat for a customer when an accommodation is possible. My relationship is with my dealer has never included aggravation - they do what they can for me and tell me what they can and cannot do. When my GS lost the ring antenna in the middle of the Yukon Territory, my dealer grabbed the reigns and took care of helping me find the best possible solution for my bad situation. BMW also took care of what they needed to, but my dealer certainly made the process go smoothly.
Randy,

I do my own maintenance. When I am doing a valve service, I'm told the shims have to be ordered. No matter that they have them in the shop. They won't even look or let me get what I need and have the shims I order replace their inventory. And they charge me 150% of list price for shims. If they had them in stock, I'd have no problem paying 150% of list price. Snce I have to button the bike back up and then re-do the work whenthe shims come in....they shouldn't charge me 150% of list price for parts.

A relationship is a 2-way street.

I'll give them a try.
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post #10 of 14 Old Apr 14th, 2008, 9:45 am Thread Starter
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

One last question; for a 2001 LT, what years can I use for donor parts? is it 1999 - 2003?

thanks again.
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post #11 of 14 Old Apr 14th, 2008, 10:20 am
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckelew
One last question; for a 2001 LT, what years can I use for donor parts? is it 1999 - 2003?

thanks again.
I *think* 1999-2001. The speedometer sensor was removed in 2002 when they began to integrate the speed pulse from the ABS.

Yes, a dealer relationship is a two way street and some dealers are not smart enough to realize it. Their focus is too narrow to understand that a good relationship keeps customers coming back. I am fortunate to have a great dealer here in Denver.

If a dealer was smart he would encourage your doing your own maintenance, because he would want you to be pleased with your ownership experience. He would also find that many people who attempt to do their own maintenance end up having a better understanding of how much is involved and may choose to let the dealer do it.

Unfortunately some dealers are like our current crop of politicians - the would rather bully you into doing it their way, or baffle you with BS, than to be honest and let you make your own choices.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

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post #12 of 14 Old Apr 14th, 2008, 11:24 am Thread Starter
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy

If a dealer was smart he would encourage your doing your own maintenance, because he would want you to be pleased with your ownership experience. He would also find that many people who attempt to do their own maintenance end up having a better understanding of how much is involved and may choose to let the dealer do it.

Unfortunately some dealers are like our current crop of politicians - the would rather bully you into doing it their way, or baffle you with BS, than to be honest and let you make your own choices.
having owned a business, I'm real keen on supporting my local restaurants, shops, etc. The 2 local dealers have convinced me that Chicago BMW is the place to buy parts from. I get shims in about the same timeframe. And, instead of paying $21 for a $14 shim, I pay $10.50. Basically, I get the shims for half the price my local dealers charge me for and I don't have to make a trip to place an order and one to pick them up.

I now have a chart with all my shims listed and I know which are the next to be changed. So I now order ahead.

Chicago BMW has done right by me. So has Santa Cruz BMW.
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post #13 of 14 Old Apr 14th, 2008, 11:45 am Thread Starter
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Just ordered an FD from Beemerboneyard.com. looking forward to having it back on the road.

thanks guys.
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post #14 of 14 Old Apr 14th, 2008, 12:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Sign-Up for FD Failure Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
I *think* 1999-2001. The speedometer sensor was removed in 2002 when they began to integrate the speed pulse from the ABS..
that's the answer. thank you.
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