Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 25 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 9:56 am Thread Starter
 
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Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

I have a 2000 K1200 LT. It works perfectly except lately when I fuel up. When I top off the gas tank it stalls out at low RPM until I use up the first 3/4 gallon of gas, then it works fine again. I loosened the gas cap to see if it might be a vaccume issue, but no change. Any ideas would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 25 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 11:03 am
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Sure sounds liek a vacuum issue to me.

I've never had this particular problem, but, have you tried the cap "removed", obviously for testing only.

It could be the charcol cannister is plug needign a "cannister-ectomy". There is a good procedure on this site.

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post #3 of 25 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 7:06 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

I have had this issue.

There is a charcol filter air line of some sort that fills up with gas, when you overfill the tank.

When your at the gas station and pumping gas and it fills up, it's full. You can keep pumping a bit more into it and the level drops each time, which seems like your really filling it up all the way right...but no its draining through this charcol line.

Try putting the pump in and stopping when the pump stops no matter if you think she will hold just a bit more!

Brian Smith

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post #4 of 25 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 7:33 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Welcome to the forum, Doug. Always fill with the bike on the sidestand and stop adding fuel when it's at or just below the nozzle guide ring. After a fuel stop, my 2K stumbles on first thumb of starter. Doesn't want to run at all. A release of the starter, then push it again, and it runs like a clock. I'm not sure why it does this, but another member told me they all do it.

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post #5 of 25 Old Apr 11th, 2008, 9:46 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

You have already been given the answer, I just want to add my comment that you should NEVER fill it above the guide ring that the nozzle goes through. That is to insure the proper airspace above the fuel in the tank to prevent overfilling, which can force raw fuel into the charcoal cannister, which is meant to only see fuel vapor. Raw fuel in the cannister causes very rich running until it is purged by the engine vacuum pulling air back through the cannister and into the intake to clear the charcoal of it's liquid. The cannister is meant to absorb fuel vapors for emmissions control when the bike is not running, and when the purge valve opens when the engine is running the vacuum draws air back through it to pull the vapor out and burn it in the engine. Raw fuel destroys the mixture control until cleared.

Also, if enough fuel gets into the cannister it can cause it to clog up, then nasty things happen, like vacuum collapsing the tank, running the engine very lean, and bending the fuel level sender float tube.

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post #6 of 25 Old Apr 13th, 2008, 9:36 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Thank you to everyone who replied. You were very helpful. I have been over filling my tank and it seems I clogged the cannister. I removed the canister, filled up the bike and it is running perfectly again. Thanks for your help.

Doug
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post #7 of 25 Old Apr 14th, 2008, 8:49 am
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Yup.. I had this very thing happen.... even stopped on me, on the highway yesterday as I approached a traffic light.. yeah, I was upset... fuel mileage also dropped... so, off with her skirt....again.

...............
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post #8 of 25 Old Apr 14th, 2008, 12:43 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

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Originally Posted by dagerber
I removed the canister, filled up the bike and it is running perfectly again.
Doug
With my CLC, when they put in the comm system, they broke (I think) the canister at the hose. They hot glue the hose onto the canister. I was getting ready for a trip and pull the comm wire (long story) and broke the hose off. The bike would not start. Close off the end of the hose and it started. Open it back up and it would not start. Fix, then replace the canister.

It sound like the LT is different that the CLC.
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post #9 of 25 Old Apr 14th, 2008, 1:07 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Hmm, could the GT have this problem too? My bike hesitates at about 2200 RPM. I was thinking it might be the air filter, but maybe it's this charcoal filter.

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post #10 of 25 Old Apr 14th, 2008, 4:03 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Possibly so, you might test it by taking the gas cap off and see if it makes a difference.
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post #11 of 25 Old Jun 4th, 2011, 8:00 am
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
You have already been given the answer, I just want to add my comment that you should NEVER fill it above the guide ring that the nozzle goes through. That is to insure the proper airspace above the fuel in the tank to prevent overfilling, which can force raw fuel into the charcoal cannister, which is meant to only see fuel vapor. Raw fuel in the cannister causes very rich running until it is purged by the engine vacuum pulling air back through the cannister and into the intake to clear the charcoal of it's liquid. The cannister is meant to absorb fuel vapors for emmissions control when the bike is not running, and when the purge valve opens when the engine is running the vacuum draws air back through it to pull the vapor out and burn it in the engine. Raw fuel destroys the mixture control until cleared.

Also, if enough fuel gets into the cannister it can cause it to clog up, then nasty things happen, like vacuum collapsing the tank, running the engine very lean, and bending the fuel level sender float tube.
I have to chime in here, because this is exactly what happened to me. I just got my bike back from the shop, where the mechanic explained this issue almost word for word with this answer. If you overfill the tank and then make a quick stop at a light for example, it can stall. The engine is basically flooded due to that backwash of fuel from the canister. (described in perfect detail above, sorry I am not a technical guy) Bottom line: Do not overfill your tank!!!

PS. I wish I read this article before I spent the $100 tow to Leo's in MN. Oh well....

Doug
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post #12 of 25 Old Jan 6th, 2015, 4:44 pm
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Man I love this site. I also want to inform any LT owners who have already removed the canister, that over filling the fuel tank will also continue to stall the bike exactly as it did prior to removing it. This has been happening on my trip from West Palm Beach, Florida to Douglasville, Georgia. I already removed my canister, but expect the problem will be corrected now by filling it properly. All thanks to you who have taken your valuable time to help out others in the BMW K- bike community. Much thanks, John Olsen

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post #13 of 25 Old Jan 6th, 2015, 4:55 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Yes, great site because of all the help. I notice when I don't fill the tank all the way it's about 1/8 below the full mark. Is that normal?

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post #14 of 25 Old Jan 6th, 2015, 6:01 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

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Originally Posted by Leboyd View Post
Yes, great site because of all the help. I notice when I don't fill the tank all the way it's about 1/8 below the full mark. Is that normal?

Yes.


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post #15 of 25 Old Jan 6th, 2015, 8:39 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Quick fix. Go to the web site for the Illinois bmw club site or" K1200LT fuel canister removal'. Had the same problem at the National in St. Paul. Went to this web site, went back and took passenger seat off, took canister off, rerouted the hoses, and bike ran fantastic and still is going strong. Only took total of about 20 minutes. No more problems. The canister only comes with the USA bikes because of epa. Go for it. You need not buy anything to fix this problem.
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post #16 of 25 Old Jan 6th, 2015, 10:03 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

I removed the canister 2 days after buying my Y2K, never had an issue and I fill it as much as I want.

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post #17 of 25 Old Jan 6th, 2015, 11:10 pm
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Perhaps I routed the lines of my bike differently upon removing the canister. I just left my canister in place, and then took the two hoses and joined them in a U directly behind the water tight fuse covers.!?!?
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post #18 of 25 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 7:52 am
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

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Originally Posted by 2003BMWK1200LT View Post
Perhaps I routed the lines of my bike differently upon removing the canister. I just left my canister in place, and then took the two hoses and joined them in a U directly behind the water tight fuse covers.!?!?
Sounds like that would allow raw fuel to go right to the vacuum switch at the throttle bodies if the tank was overfilled. The idea is to route the live out to the back of the bike by connecting the line from the tank to the line on the other end of the canister that runs down by the right side saddle bag. The line to the vacuum switch just gets capped off.

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post #19 of 25 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 11:05 am
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

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Originally Posted by 2003BMWK1200LT View Post
Perhaps I routed the lines of my bike differently upon removing the canister. I just left my canister in place, and then took the two hoses and joined them in a U directly behind the water tight fuse covers.!?!?
Ok LT,
If what You're saying is that You've got your canister vacuum lines routed so that your tank vent is connected to the throttle vacuum valve, You need to re-rout those lines before you ride again.

The reason is that a vacuum inside the fuel tank can cause problems that You don't need, like stalling, and the tank has been known to collapse, damaging the fuel level sender.

The vent from the tank must go to atmosphere (I routed mine down behind the right rider foot peg , next to the fuel filler scupper drain).
The line from the engine must be capped.

Don't forget to use the technical files (Hall Of Wisdom)
& search for "canisterectomy".

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post #20 of 25 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 1:24 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

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...After a fuel stop, my 2K stumbles on first thumb of starter. Doesn't want to run at all. A release of the starter, then push it again, and it runs like a clock. I'm not sure why it does this, but another member told me they all do it.
I only have experience with my Y2K LT and my father's Y2K LT and neither of them stumble after a fuel fill (actually I can't recall my LT ever stumbling on startup ever, unlike my R1200C), but I would not say that is normal. This is probably something I would classify under the 'it's not right but doesn't really matter' file. Have you done a canisterectomy on your Y2K? The old man and I are planning to do it just as a preventive measure but so far it hasn't happened.

-Steve

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post #21 of 25 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 3:26 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

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I have a 2000 K1200 LT. It works perfectly except lately when I fuel up. When I top off the gas tank it stalls out at low RPM until I use up the first 3/4 gallon of gas, then it works fine again. I loosened the gas cap to see if it might be a vaccume issue, but no change. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Sounds like the charcoal canister is plugged.When it acts up. Check by unscrewing your gas cap. If theres a whooshing of air. Its plugged. Checkout BMW club of northern illinois site. Go to maint videos for K1200lt. Good video procedure. Personally. I would pull the trunk and check regardless to see that it has or hasn't been done.

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post #22 of 25 Old Jan 7th, 2015, 7:57 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

I'm not so sure that dagerber is checking this forum any more.

About vent tube routing, the original location of the canister vent [to atmosphere] was near the rear fender.
I don't use that location because of its tendency to fill with crud.

Rand & Susan Hawksworth
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post #23 of 25 Old Jan 8th, 2015, 1:00 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Thank you all. I have resolved the problem. It was simply that I did not follow directions properly by capping off the vaccum line and routing the direct tank line to the bottom rear. I had joined the vaccum hose end to the tank end. If it were not for your advice, I would have collapsed my fuel tank soon here in Georgia, about 700 miles from home. This would have been a costly repair and I am thankful for all of the help.
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post #24 of 25 Old Jan 8th, 2015, 2:00 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

Good News.

Have a Good Ride John!

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post #25 of 25 Old Jan 8th, 2015, 9:43 pm
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Re: Engine stalls at low rpm if fuel topped off

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Originally Posted by 2003BMWK1200LT View Post
Thank you all. I have resolved the problem. It was simply that I did not follow directions properly by capping off the vaccum line and routing the direct tank line to the bottom rear. I had joined the vaccum hose end to the tank end. If it were not for your advice, I would have collapsed my fuel tank soon here in Georgia, about 700 miles from home. This would have been a costly repair and I am thankful for all of the help.
Congrats!

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1982 Yamaha Virago 920 (sold)
Honda CB750 Custom (sold...good riddins!)
2003 K1200LT - Black (for sale)
2005 K1200LT - Ocean Blue Metallic

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