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post #1 of 34 Old Apr 9th, 2008, 1:54 pm Thread Starter
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Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Hi All

I am going to buy another K1200LT this weekend (had one about 3 years ago) and just wondered if there is much difference between the newer more powerful version compared to the old 98hp version in general riding terms. I'm looking at both and am erring towards a 2002 model with 8,500 miles on it rather than the 2004 model with 20,000miles. Power stands are great I'm sure, but I never had a problem with the manual one.

Any feedback would be helpful as the price difference is considerable (£3,000), and I would like to know what extra I'm getting.

Also if you are in the market for a mint 06 R1200ST (non ABS) PM me as it's killing my knees and shoulders, hense the desire to sit up and take the world at a slower pace again.

David
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post #2 of 34 Old Apr 9th, 2008, 2:23 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

On US models the 2002 was the first "upgrade" version of the LT. Changed the brakes, comm system, etc. The second upgrade happened with the 2005 model. Extra HP, shorter rake, Zenon light, courtesy lights, power locking side cases and topcase, and the power centerstand. The 2004 model in the US is the same as the 2002 model. One difference between 2002 and 2004 is the bearing upgrade in the final drive. 2004s are less prone to final driver failure. My regular ride is a 2002 but I have significant miles on a 2005. I ride mostly two-up. I did not see any major difference in power between the two, the power centerstand is quite finicky on anything other than level surfaces forcing you to use the sidestand,(I always put it up on the centerstand) and I found the shorter rake to give the bike a tendency to turn in on itself in slow speed manuevers. I am sure the latter issue is not that critical and even preferable after one gets used to it. I prefer my 2002 the way I have it set up. If I was going to get a replacement, I would definitely get a 2005 or newer model. Newer means everything is newer. Hoses, plastic, technology, part availability, etc. My only concern is that they do not come in any decent colors and I understand the last model in the current version(2009) will only be available in black. On the other hand, the 2002 might be the best value for your budget after you consider the model type(Custom, Elite, Standard?) and the value of any accessories included.

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post #3 of 34 Old Apr 9th, 2008, 2:36 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Hey Bob,

It was my understanding the "03+" had the bearing upgrade? Or was it "04+"?

(I ride an 03)


John


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post #4 of 34 Old Apr 9th, 2008, 5:47 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

David,

If you are saying that the 2004 model you are looking at has the more powerfull engine and the hydraulic centre stand then I would highly recommend that you got it, as in my opinion it is worth the extra 3000.

Simon
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post #5 of 34 Old Apr 9th, 2008, 8:26 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

2000 LT, better gas MI, can bleed the brakes, ABS issues that may hassle you. Has worked for me so far. No rear end issues yet!
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post #6 of 34 Old Apr 9th, 2008, 8:40 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by simoncharles
David,

If you are saying that the 2004 model you are looking at has the more powerfull engine and the hydraulic centre stand then I would highly recommend that you got it, as in my opinion it is worth the extra 3000.

Simon
The 04 in Europe is the equivalent to the 05 in the US, but £3000 (nearly $6,000, or 3,740 EUR) is a lot of dough...

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post #7 of 34 Old Apr 9th, 2008, 9:10 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLBass
Hi All

I am going to buy another K1200LT this weekend (had one about 3 years ago) and just wondered if there is much difference between the newer more powerful version compared to the old 98hp version in general riding terms. I'm looking at both and am erring towards a 2002 model with 8,500 miles on it rather than the 2004 model with 20,000miles. Power stands are great I'm sure, but I never had a problem with the manual one.

Any feedback would be helpful as the price difference is considerable (£3,000), and I would like to know what extra I'm getting.

Also if you are in the market for a mint 06 R1200ST (non ABS) PM me as it's killing my knees and shoulders, hense the desire to sit up and take the world at a slower pace again.

David
I would have some concerns about buying an ultra low mileage LT that is 6 years old. Sitting is not good for the seals on these bikes. Especially the rear main seal.

I purchased a US '03 with 800 miles on it in 05 (only two years old) and the seals went after about 20K miles. I would much rather have the bike with 20K miles on it.

If you want the added features, go for it. If not, then don't.. That is really what it comes down to. You should test drive both versions. But, again, be leary about very low mileage on an older bike. Alot of sitting and no riding.
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post #8 of 34 Old Apr 9th, 2008, 10:14 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLBass
...just wondered if there is much difference between the newer more powerful version compared to the old 98hp version in general riding terms. ...hence the desire to sit up and take the world at a slower pace again.
In my world, riding a 2002LT, I have never wished for a "newer more powerful version" of this machine. Of course, I used to have a K75RT instead of the "more powerful version" the K100RT.

To me, using my value systems, the power increase is not worth the extra cost. There may be other features you value, and in the end, you will figure out how to spend your money.

Best Wishes.
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post #9 of 34 Old Apr 10th, 2008, 1:57 am
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

I have a 2000 that is ridden, on average, once a week. My rear engine seal is leaking. About the only time the bike hasn't been ridden weekly was the time between when it was made and when I bought it in Sept of 2000.

Bob

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post #10 of 34 Old Apr 10th, 2008, 4:03 am
 
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by TikTak
Hey Bob,

It was my understanding the "03+" had the bearing upgrade? Or was it "04+"?

(I ride an 03)


John
You are right, the upgrade happened in production month 7 in 2002 and I who have a 2003 LT which was produced in month 09 2002 have the new upgrade. thus 2003 bikes are one of the best when it comes to least problems. Much becouse the 2003 have the low HP engine but same dimentions and upgrade in FD as the larger HP engine has and thus less stress on the parts.
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post #11 of 34 Old Apr 10th, 2008, 7:53 am Thread Starter
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Thanks for all the input people

I've pretty much decided on the 2002 SE that I have first option on. Full BM history, and already fitted with autocom etc. and 8,600 on the clock.

Regards David

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post #12 of 34 Old Apr 10th, 2008, 12:10 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Hey dave,

I also purchased a low mileage 03 LT (12,500on the clock) so this is my plan.
Couple things,

Ride it!!!!!

Keep an eye on fluids (clutch). If a seal does go you might see it drop before it too late.

Ride it some more!!!

Drill the weep hole.

Ride it further!!!!!!!

John


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post #13 of 34 Old Apr 10th, 2008, 1:07 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Absolute no brainer. Go for the newer model. Two completely different bikes. I would never under any circumstances do back to the old one, NEVER.
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post #14 of 34 Old Apr 10th, 2008, 1:17 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Giles (Zippy),

It may seem a lot when compared to the price you pay for an LT in the U.S.A., but not compared to the prices of new bikes in Europe, especially Denmark and Finland.

David,

Before making a firm desicion, try riding both bikes. The newer one is supposed to be easier to handle at lower speeds due to the frame layout, it has better lighting, which still isn“t brilliant ( no pun intended ) and you should try the hydraulic centre stand. Also make sure that the throttle cables on the older model are in the newer, improved position.

I agree with the previous comments about the bike sitting around and not being used.

I also think you will find the newer one easier to sell than the previous model when and if that occurs, as depreciation will be faster.

Good luck,

Simon
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post #15 of 34 Old Apr 10th, 2008, 2:05 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by TikTak
Hey Bob,

It was my understanding the "03+" had the bearing upgrade? Or was it "04+"?

(I ride an 03)


John
The bearing upgrade occurred during the second half of the 2002 production year. Quite a few 2002 models have the upgraded bearing. There is a serial number chart somewhere in this site's archives that shows when that occured so you can look it up. 2003 should be all the "new" 17 ball design. They eventually went back to the 19 ball design with another manufacturer in late 2004 production. This is my own research.

The 2004 model is the same as the 2002 model in the US.(The models are different in Europe sometimes like no cruise control.) The horsepower upgrade and everything else started with the 2005 model. The 2006 model added a few more options. Nothing new for 2007 or 2008 or 2009.

I agree with the a bike sitting around without being ridden is a risk. If the money is comparable I would go for the 2004 with 20K versus the 2002 with 8.5K. These bikes aren't really broken in until about 25K. One thing to remember about most BMW bikes and especially the LT is they are not like Harley, BSA, Triumph, or even Honda in that they should NEVER leak oil. Even a small leak means you have problems and expense coming your way very soon. If possible I would get the seller on the 2004 to spring for the 24K service before you buy as a way of checking it out. Absolutely a 12K on the 2002 if you go that route or gain some significant reduction as it's going to need the 12K plus have the coolant, brake fluid, and all oil vessels renewed.

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post #16 of 34 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 9:25 am
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Hi All,
I just put a deposit on a 2003 LT with 4500 miles on it. I was reading in the forum that beware of older models with little miles. I am buying from a bmw dealership that only handles bmw bikes. They took the bike thu an inspection and assured me that the bike is sound. should I still be worried about this purchase. the cost of the bike is 13000 out the door vs. 25000 for an '09.

any thoughts would be helpful.

E.
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post #17 of 34 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 9:52 am
 
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

13k for that bike sounds resonable, especially coming from a dealer.
I bought a 03 LTe From a florida dealer in february and it had 14200 miles on it. The price on that was the same as yours. So if everything is ok and you have some additional farkles then I`d say good buy

BTW Welcome to the forum, you will find it pleasurable and very informing
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post #18 of 34 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 11:37 am
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by captaine
Hi All,
I just put a deposit on a 2003 LT with 4500 miles on it. I was reading in the forum that beware of older models with little miles. I am buying from a bmw dealership that only handles bmw bikes. They took the bike thu an inspection and assured me that the bike is sound. should I still be worried about this purchase. the cost of the bike is 13000 out the door vs. 25000 for an '09.

any thoughts would be helpful.

E.
Have you checked book value? I think that's on the high side even for a dealer. My '03 LTE with 320 miles I purchased from a dealer in '04 was $17,500. I'd at least try for at least a one year warranty and 12K service.

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post #19 of 34 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 11:59 am
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

[QUOTE=Tallyho]The bearing upgrade occurred during the second half of the 2002 production year. Quite a few 2002 models have the upgraded bearing. There is a serial number chart somewhere in this site's archives that shows when that occured so you can look it up. 2003 should be all the "new" 17 ball design. They eventually went back to the 19 ball design with another manufacturer in late 2004 production. This is my own research.
[QUOTE]

I have been wondering about this. It seems to have become accepted that there was a bearing "upgrade" in 2002. Others seems to argue that this was simply a change in suppliers. And if this was in fact, an upgrade, why did they go back to the other design? Was it a "downgrade" ?

I am beginning to think it is wishful thinking to help owners sleep better at night


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post #20 of 34 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 12:05 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by captaine
Hi All,
I just put a deposit on a 2003 LT with 4500 miles on it. I was reading in the forum that beware of older models with little miles. I am buying from a bmw dealership that only handles bmw bikes. They took the bike thu an inspection and assured me that the bike is sound. should I still be worried about this purchase. the cost of the bike is 13000 out the door vs. 25000 for an '09.

any thoughts would be helpful.

E.
'03 is a good year but $13K is high (bike is probably worth no more than $10K, so you decide how much the dealer should make.) A bike sitting for 5 years isn't good. Read rglassma's thread about "Time to find another ride" to see what can happen. Which dealer is it? I like the suggestion to have them throw in an extended warranty, or get them to commit to cover any seal related repairs.

Ted

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post #21 of 34 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 10:05 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Thanks Ted,
the dealer is a BMW dealership in Orange, Ca. He is saying because of the low mileage and classic model that he can get this price. the 13K is with tax and license.

I also just spoke to another bmw guy and he is saying because the later models have more power it is worth spending 4-5K more and getting an 06 or 07 with 25-30K miles.
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post #22 of 34 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 10:32 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Hey guys thanks for the input. Here is the link for the bike I am looking to purchase:
http://www.irvseaverbmw.com/new_vehi...207&pov=825910

Any feedback is welcomed.

Eric
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post #23 of 34 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 10:52 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by captaine
He is saying because of the low mileage and classic model that he can get this price. the 13K is with tax and license.
I suggest you tell him that KBB says it's only worth $10,210 and regardless of miles that's all you are willing to pay. Unless, he's willing to through in a 3 year extended warrenty.

Otherwise, go for the '06 and up models as most should be under a factory warrenty and will qualify for an extended warrenty. That's one of the main reasons why I turned down an '05 for an '06. I paid list for my '06, but was able to get an extended warrenty. Plus I used the factory warrenty already to get my reverse gear fixed plus the radio replaced. That already saved me a couple of thousand dollars in (minor, but expensive) repairs. I've only had the motorcycle a about 2 months. I didn't really notice the problems until I queried about them on the forum. It's nice to have a warrenty on a used motorcycle.

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post #24 of 34 Old Apr 25th, 2008, 10:53 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Confirm the tires are VB not ZR if they are ME880's
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post #25 of 34 Old Apr 26th, 2008, 1:28 am
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by captaine
Hey guys thanks for the input. Here is the link for the bike I am looking to purchase:
http://www.irvseaverbmw.com/new_vehi...207&pov=825910

Any feedback is welcomed.

Eric
One more thing - This is an "early" 2003, because black was not officially offered that year (colors were Titan Silver, Impala Brown, and Anthracite). Black was a 2002 and earlier color. Could be significant regarding the build date, which you want to be AFTER May 2002. Bikes w/ build dates prior to May 2002 have significantly higher final drive failures. The build date can be found on a sticker under the seat, or using the last 7 characters on the VIN# here:http://www.bmw-z1.com/VIN/VINdecode-e.cgi

I'd confirm it's really a 2003. There are some legitimate black 2003's, which used the excess black fairings, etc from the 2002's, but you should verify it's not really a 2002. I'd also be curious about the bike's history - how many times sold and why such low miles. I have 49K+ on my 2003 (of which 5,600 I put on last week ).

Good luck and please report what you find out!

Ted

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post #26 of 34 Old Apr 26th, 2008, 9:47 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Thanks again for the info. I think I'm going to test drive the 03. If I feel that the power is an issue, I'm probably going to op for an 08 or 09 and just live with the extra cost. I'm currently in Miami and wont be in LA until mid next week, so I can check the date to validate the actual year of this bike.
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post #27 of 34 Old Apr 28th, 2008, 9:05 am
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Hey guys in CA, I will be making a decision on this 03 very quickly and I would like to speak with someone by phone regarding the lack of miles on this bike. My contact info is 310-283-2779.

Thanks for the help.

Eric
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post #28 of 34 Old Apr 28th, 2008, 11:29 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Thanks alot for the Vin Decoder. When I put the info in it came back as a June 2002 production date. I guess this settles it.

I'm still scepticle about the low mileage on this bike. I'll test it and see what happens.

Thanks for the info!

Last edited by captaine; Apr 28th, 2008 at 11:41 pm.
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post #29 of 34 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 6:57 am
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

I picked up an 02' last fall, LTE with 1200 miles.
$10K
Rode it on a four day trip, 2600 miles(780 miles the first day!) and I am VERY HAPPY!


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post #30 of 34 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 4:39 pm
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Wink Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

I had a 2000 for 8 years and had no problems (not even the FD). But after test riding the 2008 I knew that I had to make the move. The center stand, Zenon light, 16 horses, linked brakes, central locking/alarm, plusher seats....are all worth their weight in gold to me! IMHO

I realize that it's just a year or so until the most advanced bike on the planet will be released (new LT), and our LT's now will look like fossils. But I look at it this way; by the last run of a manufactured series - most, if not ALL of the bugs have been worked out? Well, wishful thinking I guess, because I'm going to post a problem I'm having with my 2 week old 2008 LT!

Kevin

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post #31 of 34 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 6:20 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Hi Eric, the unit you placed a deposit on was first sold new by us to its' original owner on 9/5/02. On May 1st of '03, we did the break in service here at 848 miles. The bike was garaged and ridden regularly until it came to us. It was in running condition and immaculate in appearance. We did the 6000 mile service early on 4/15/08 at 4425 miles and flushed the brakes and replaced the brake fluid during this service. The bike is one of the nicest I've seen in the nine years I've been here.

On the subject of extended service contracts we have the Western Service Contract, Advantage "B" which extends for 36 months from the day sold to you. This one is a $50 deductable contract which covers: the engine, transmission, primary drive, final drive, front suspension, rear suspension, factory instuments, steering, brake rotors and calipers, (no pads) and electrical, (radios, transmitters and sound systems are excluded. It sells for $1638. I hope this answers your questions. Please have a safe trip home and we'll see you on Thursday.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for extended warranties. This seems high.
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post #32 of 34 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 8:25 pm
 
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

I just bought a 03 LTC and thougth 10k was a good deal. It had 12500 miles on it and came with Jpegs, tank bag, BMW com system, alarm, new metzlers with less than 200 miles, less than 200 miles on a 12k service, PIAA lights and a backup backrest. Well 200 miles later its now in the shop and it has a drive and pivot bearing out in the rear end. MY belief is that this crap about the final drive is a crap shoot. If someone here can show me a legitamite chart showing the model year and defects from all dealers in the US then I might believe but until then this is all speculation. I am an engineer by trade so I guess I am only willing to look at the hard numbers. The dreadfull quote is suppose to be in by 6pm. The parts are at around 275 dollars right now. I am guessing that I am going to get it up the tailpipe in labor. I bought this bike because I love riding it and eventhough I knew all about its issues, I bought it anyway. WHY? becasue at the end of the day, it fits, rides nice and makes me happy. Thats what its all about. Now, I must say its hard to swallow this reapir after 200 miles of ownership.
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post #33 of 34 Old May 1st, 2008, 9:24 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Just wanted to let you know what happened on the 03 purchase. I took a test drive and I was very disappointed in the performance. Also, the bike seemed to raddle and wasn't as smooth as the 06 I drove a few weeks back. So I didn't purchase the 03. I then looked at the competition again (Wing and HD bikes). I've concluded that the only way I can be satisfied is to buy an 08 or 09.

I'll keep you posted.
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post #34 of 34 Old Jun 3rd, 2008, 4:49 pm
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Re: Older 1200LT v Newer 1200LT

Thanks for all the help on this forum. Just wanted to let you know that I picked op my 09 LT last Saturday and I am enjoying the hell out of it.

Thanks for the input!
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